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Road works?

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UK and Europe
Published
13 December 2007
Last activity
20 December 2007
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burtthebike
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  1. Anyone know what the legal situation is when people doing road works make
    the road extremely dangerous for cyclists?

    This morning, going up Filton Hill on the A38 into Bristol, on a LH bend
    (dual carriageway, 40mph limit) the cycle lane was blocked with a couple of
    men at work signs, and farther up, the roadworks blocked it completely,
    forcing cyclists into the motor traffic lane, coming up the hill at 40mph.
    The local council did respond pretty quickly, but the police weren't
    interested. It would have been possible for cyclists to be accommodated
    safely, but this wasn't done.

    Haven't seen it since this morning, anyone know if it's still quite so
    bloody dangerous?

    What would have been the situation if a cyclist had been struck by a motor
    vehicle whilst avoiding the roadworks?

  2. burtthebike said:

    Anyone know what the legal situation is when people doing road works
    make the road extremely dangerous for cyclists?

    This morning, going up Filton Hill on the A38 into Bristol, on a LH
    bend (dual carriageway, 40mph limit) the cycle lane was blocked with
    a couple of men at work signs, and farther up, the roadworks blocked
    it completely, forcing cyclists into the motor traffic lane, coming
    up the hill at 40mph. The local council did respond pretty quickly,
    but the police weren't interested. It would have been possible for
    cyclists to be accommodated safely, but this wasn't done.

    Haven't seen it since this morning, anyone know if it's still quite so
    bloody dangerous?

    What would have been the situation if a cyclist had been struck by a
    motor vehicle whilst avoiding the roadworks?

    1. If there was a footpath, the roadworks were not forcing you to cycle on
    the road as you could have got off and walked (ahead or back)

    2. Why exactly was it dangerous to ride on the main carriageway? Cars
    going uphill at 40 mph isn't enough to make a dual carriageway dangerous to
    cycle on. So was there anything else?

    ~PB

  3. burtthebike said:

    Anyone know what the legal situation is when people doing road works make
    the road extremely dangerous for cyclists?

    This morning, going up Filton Hill on the A38 into Bristol, on a LH bend
    (dual carriageway, 40mph limit) the cycle lane was blocked with a couple of
    men at work signs, and farther up, the roadworks blocked it completely,
    forcing cyclists into the motor traffic lane, coming up the hill at 40mph.
    The local council did respond pretty quickly, but the police weren't
    interested. It would have been possible for cyclists to be accommodated
    safely, but this wasn't done.

    Haven't seen it since this morning, anyone know if it's still quite so
    bloody dangerous?

    What would have been the situation if a cyclist had been struck by a motor
    vehicle whilst avoiding the roadworks?

    Is there any reason why the road is inherently dangerous there?

    Luke

    --
    Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
    exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

  4. "burtthebike" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Anyone know what the legal situation is when people doing road works make
    the road extremely dangerous for cyclists?

    This morning, going up Filton Hill on the A38 into Bristol, on a LH bend
    (dual carriageway, 40mph limit) the cycle lane was blocked with a couple
    of men at work signs, and farther up, the roadworks blocked it completely,
    forcing cyclists into the motor traffic lane, coming up the hill at 40mph.
    The local council did respond pretty quickly, but the police weren't
    interested. It would have been possible for cyclists to be accommodated
    safely, but this wasn't done.

    Haven't seen it since this morning, anyone know if it's still quite so
    bloody dangerous?

    What would have been the situation if a cyclist had been struck by a motor
    vehicle whilst avoiding the roadworks?

    Cyclist have a right to be on the road, wether or not there is a cycle path.
    Road users have a duty to take account of the conditions. Car drivers should
    leave sufficient room for cyclist, when overtaking, whatever the
    circumstances. So, unless you make sudden and totally inexplicable manouvers
    (very unlikely), the car driver would be wholey responsible. IMHO

    David Lloyd

  5. "Ekul Namsob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    burtthebike said:

    Anyone know what the legal situation is when people doing road works make
    the road extremely dangerous for cyclists?

    This morning, going up Filton Hill on the A38 into Bristol, on a LH bend
    (dual carriageway, 40mph limit) the cycle lane was blocked with a couple
    of
    men at work signs, and farther up, the roadworks blocked it completely,
    forcing cyclists into the motor traffic lane, coming up the hill at
    40mph.
    The local council did respond pretty quickly, but the police weren't
    interested. It would have been possible for cyclists to be accommodated
    safely, but this wasn't done.

    Haven't seen it since this morning, anyone know if it's still quite so
    bloody dangerous?

    What would have been the situation if a cyclist had been struck by a
    motor
    vehicle whilst avoiding the roadworks?

    Is there any reason why the road is inherently dangerous there?


    I don't recall it being especially hazardous when I've ridden along it. If
    the cycle lane was blocked the main carriageway is perfectly serviceable.

    If there was a collision between a motor vehicle and a cyclist then the
    police would investigate and attempt to determine where the blame lay
    between the two parties.

  6. David Lloyd said:


    Cyclist have a right to be on the road, wether or not there is a
    cycle path. Road users have a duty to take account of the conditions.
    Car drivers should leave sufficient room for cyclist, when
    overtaking, whatever the circumstances. So, unless you make sudden
    and totally inexplicable manouvers (very unlikely), the car driver
    would be wholey responsible. IMHO

    Sounds good, where is this Utopia?

    --
    Mike
    Van Tuyl titanium Dura ace 10
    Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
    Raleigh Record sprint mongrel
    Huissoon project bike (in bits, natch)

  7. On 13/12/2007 20:20, David Lloyd said,

    Quoted message said:

    So, unless you make sudden and totally inexplicable manouvers
    (very unlikely), the car driver would be wholey responsible. IMHO

    When you're lying in hospital, it'll be reassuring to know that the car
    driver is wholly responsible. If it's where I think it is, car drivers
    will not necessarily be expecting a cyclist on the road, whether or not
    they have a right to be there.

    However, I would have thought that rather than giving the impression of
    being forced into the road, joining the road a bit earlier and riding in
    the primary position would help. The bends aren't that sharp. Then
    again, nor are many drivers in Bristol :-)

    --
    Paul Boyd
    http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

  8. On 13/12/2007 20:20, David Lloyd said,

    Quoted message said:

    So, unless you make sudden and totally inexplicable manouvers
    (very unlikely), the car driver would be wholey responsible. IMHO

    When you're lying in hospital, it'll be reassuring to know that the car
    driver is wholly responsible. If it's where I think it is, car drivers
    will not necessarily be expecting a cyclist on the road, whether or not
    they have a right to be there.

    However, I would have thought that rather than giving the impression of
    being forced into the road, joining the road a bit earlier and riding in
    the primary position would help. The bends aren't that sharp. Then
    again, nor are many drivers in Bristol :-)

    --
    Paul Boyd
    http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

  9. "Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    burtthebike said:

    Anyone know what the legal situation is when people doing road works
    make the road extremely dangerous for cyclists?

    This morning, going up Filton Hill on the A38 into Bristol, on a LH
    bend (dual carriageway, 40mph limit) the cycle lane was blocked with
    a couple of men at work signs, and farther up, the roadworks blocked
    it completely, forcing cyclists into the motor traffic lane, coming
    up the hill at 40mph. The local council did respond pretty quickly,
    but the police weren't interested. It would have been possible for
    cyclists to be accommodated safely, but this wasn't done.

    Haven't seen it since this morning, anyone know if it's still quite so
    bloody dangerous?

    What would have been the situation if a cyclist had been struck by a
    motor vehicle whilst avoiding the roadworks?

    1. If there was a footpath, the roadworks were not forcing you to cycle
    on the road as you could have got off and walked (ahead or back)

    Quite right, but why wasn't provision made at the road works to make them
    safe for all road users, including cyclists?

    Quoted message said:


    2. Why exactly was it dangerous to ride on the main carriageway? Cars
    going uphill at 40 mph isn't enough to make a dual carriageway dangerous
    to cycle on. So was there anything else?

    It's on a left hand bend, uphill, dual carriageway, 40mph limit (very much a
    minimum) and you've got to pull out around the signs and the works into the
    quite narrow nearside lane with cars doing 40+ coming up the hill. I cycle
    12 miles through heavy traffic every day, and let me tell you, this was
    dangerous.

  10. "Ekul Namsob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    burtthebike said:

    Anyone know what the legal situation is when people doing road works make
    the road extremely dangerous for cyclists?

    This morning, going up Filton Hill on the A38 into Bristol, on a LH bend
    (dual carriageway, 40mph limit) the cycle lane was blocked with a couple
    of
    men at work signs, and farther up, the roadworks blocked it completely,
    forcing cyclists into the motor traffic lane, coming up the hill at
    40mph.
    The local council did respond pretty quickly, but the police weren't
    interested. It would have been possible for cyclists to be accommodated
    safely, but this wasn't done.

    Haven't seen it since this morning, anyone know if it's still quite so
    bloody dangerous?

    What would have been the situation if a cyclist had been struck by a
    motor
    vehicle whilst avoiding the roadworks?

    Is there any reason why the road is inherently dangerous there?

    No, but since I never said it was, why do you think it is?

    What makes it dangerous is the signs and works obstructing the cycle lane,
    so that cyclists had to enter the 40+ motorised traffic, going uphill on a
    left hand bend.

  11. "vernon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Ekul Namsob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    burtthebike said:

    Anyone know what the legal situation is when people doing road works
    make
    the road extremely dangerous for cyclists?

    This morning, going up Filton Hill on the A38 into Bristol, on a LH bend
    (dual carriageway, 40mph limit) the cycle lane was blocked with a couple
    of
    men at work signs, and farther up, the roadworks blocked it completely,
    forcing cyclists into the motor traffic lane, coming up the hill at
    40mph.
    The local council did respond pretty quickly, but the police weren't
    interested. It would have been possible for cyclists to be accommodated
    safely, but this wasn't done.

    Haven't seen it since this morning, anyone know if it's still quite so
    bloody dangerous?

    What would have been the situation if a cyclist had been struck by a
    motor
    vehicle whilst avoiding the roadworks?

    Is there any reason why the road is inherently dangerous there?


    I don't recall it being especially hazardous when I've ridden along it. If
    the cycle lane was blocked the main carriageway is perfectly serviceable.

    You're right Vernon, not especially hazardous under normal circumstances,
    but the driving lanes have been narrowed to accommodate the cycle lane, so
    that when you had to pull into them to pass the signs and the works, there
    just isn't enough room for the cars doing 40+ to pass you, let alone safely.
    Also, at the time I cycle it, the traffic is pretty much constant and many
    drivers are impatient and innattentive.

    Quoted message said:


    If there was a collision between a motor vehicle and a cyclist then the
    police would investigate and attempt to determine where the blame lay
    between the two parties.

    And if the collision was clearly caused by the people digging up the road's
    failure to do it safely?

    Quoted message said:
  12. "Paul Boyd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On 13/12/2007 20:20, David Lloyd said,

    Quoted message said:

    So, unless you make sudden and totally inexplicable manouvers (very
    unlikely), the car driver would be wholey responsible. IMHO

    When you're lying in hospital, it'll be reassuring to know that the car
    driver is wholly responsible. If it's where I think it is, car drivers
    will not necessarily be expecting a cyclist on the road, whether or not
    they have a right to be there.

    However, I would have thought that rather than giving the impression of
    being forced into the road, joining the road a bit earlier and riding in
    the primary position would help. The bends aren't that sharp. Then
    again, nor are many drivers in Bristol :-)

    As sharp as putty. Drivers, not the bend.

    How do you pull out safely to occupy the primary position when you don't see
    the signs until you're halfway around the LH bend and traffic is coming up
    behind you at 40+?

    Quoted message said:


    --
    Paul Boyd
    http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

  13. "burtthebike" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "vernon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Ekul Namsob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    burtthebike <[email hidden]> wrote:

    > Anyone know what the legal situation is when people doing road works
    > make
    > the road extremely dangerous for cyclists?
    >
    > This morning, going up Filton Hill on the A38 into Bristol, on a LH
    > bend
    > (dual carriageway, 40mph limit) the cycle lane was blocked with a
    > couple of
    > men at work signs, and farther up, the roadworks blocked it completely,
    > forcing cyclists into the motor traffic lane, coming up the hill at
    > 40mph.
    > The local council did respond pretty quickly, but the police weren't
    > interested. It would have been possible for cyclists to be
    > accommodated
    > safely, but this wasn't done.
    >
    > Haven't seen it since this morning, anyone know if it's still quite so
    > bloody dangerous?
    >
    > What would have been the situation if a cyclist had been struck by a
    > motor
    > vehicle whilst avoiding the roadworks?

    Is there any reason why the road is inherently dangerous there?


    I don't recall it being especially hazardous when I've ridden along it.
    If the cycle lane was blocked the main carriageway is perfectly
    serviceable.

    You're right Vernon, not especially hazardous under normal circumstances,
    but the driving lanes have been narrowed to accommodate the cycle lane, so
    that when you had to pull into them to pass the signs and the works, there
    just isn't enough room for the cars doing 40+ to pass you, let alone
    safely. Also, at the time I cycle it, the traffic is pretty much constant
    and many drivers are impatient and innattentive.

    Quoted message said:


    If there was a collision between a motor vehicle and a cyclist then the
    police would investigate and attempt to determine where the blame lay
    between the two parties.

    And if the collision was clearly caused by the people digging up the
    road's failure to do it safely?

    Collisions are caused by poor road behaviour not by road works. Hitting
    debris/apparatus from roadworks then colliding with another road user as a
    direct consequence is a different matter.

  14. "burtthebike" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Anyone know what the legal situation is when people doing road works make
    the road extremely dangerous for cyclists?

    This morning, going up Filton Hill on the A38 into Bristol, on a LH bend
    (dual carriageway, 40mph limit) the cycle lane was blocked with a couple
    of men at work signs, and farther up, the roadworks blocked it completely,
    forcing cyclists into the motor traffic lane, coming up the hill at 40mph.
    The local council did respond pretty quickly, but the police weren't
    interested. It would have been possible for cyclists to be accommodated
    safely, but this wasn't done.

    Haven't seen it since this morning, anyone know if it's still quite so
    bloody dangerous?

    What would have been the situation if a cyclist had been struck by a motor
    vehicle whilst avoiding the roadworks?

    Update: This morning, the next day, the signs were still in the cycle lane,
    so I had to go around them again. This time I stopped and put them on the
    pavement. The pavement is wide enough for at least four people abreast, and
    few pedestrians use it.

    I rang the council again when I got to work, and had several interesting
    conversations with SGlos council staff, none of which provided any
    satisfaction to either party.

    The first was with a charming lady who said she would investigate and get
    someone to ring me back.

    An hour later, someone rang me back, an inpector of highways or some such.
    He explained that he had been to see the site, and in his opinion, it was
    fine. I asked him when he had been made aware that there might be a problem
    there, and he said "ten minutes ago". I asked him whether he had been told
    about this the previous day, but the response was no. I asked him if he
    considered it safe for cyclists to pull out suddenly into a 40mph motor lane
    because the cycle lane was blocked, whilst cycling up a steep hill and on a
    LH bend: "it's all done according to the regulations, nothing anyone can
    do." I asked him who his boss was. I rang his boss.

    I had a long conversation with his boss, but to cut a long story short, he
    said that the signs and the works were in accordance with the New Streets
    and Road Works Act. I pointed out that it was irrelevant whether they did
    or didn't accord, a serious hazard was being caused to cyclists, and that he
    should be doing something about it before someone was killed. "The works
    are in accordance with the New Streets and Road Works Act......." etc. Not
    the slightest concern for the safety of cyclists. He also said that the
    works were being done by Bristol Water Works, and their staff were aware of,
    and trained in, the New Streets and Road Works Act. I asked who his boss
    was.

    Ten minutes later, his boss rang me. Much the same conversation ensued.
    Except that this one claimed that they couldn't put the signs on the
    pavement as it wasn't wide enough, a blatant lie.

    Basically, SGlos council don't care if cyclists are killed, as long as they
    can tick the box saying they've done this according to the New Streets and
    Road Works Act. Incompetent jobsworths.

    I googled for cyclists and road works tonight, and found the DfT have
    produced a booklet "Cyclists at Roadworks" including "Existing cycle
    facilities: Where there is cycle provision, such as cycle lanes or cycle
    tracks, efforts should be made to keep these open or to provide an
    acceptable alternative during road works. They should not be blocked by
    signs, debris, plant etc." Transport Advisory Leaflet 15/99, published in
    1999, eight years after the New Streets and Road Works Act.

    I have no doubt that the council failed to behave responsibly, as did the
    people digging the hole, and that if a cyclist had been in collision at
    these works, they would have been held responsible because of negligence. I
    consulted the highways department of an adjoining council, and was told that
    the New Streets and Road Works Act did not prevent signs being placed on the
    pavement, and this was perfectly acceptable practice, one they did often.

    I'll be writing to my SGlos councillor, insisting on action to educate the
    cretins responsible for road works, and to Bristol Water, for much the same
    thing, and to A+S police to find out what action they should take when a
    road hazard is reported to them, and why they didn't do it.

  15. In message <[email hidden]>

    burtthebike said:

    I'll be writing to my SGlos councillor, insisting on action to educate the
    cretins responsible for road works, and to Bristol Water, for much the same
    thing, and to A+S police to find out what action they should take when a
    road hazard is reported to them, and why they didn't do it.

    Thank you for doing this for us all.

    --
    Charles
    Brompton P6R-Plus; CarryFreedom -YL, in Motspur Park
    LCC; CTC.

  16. On Dec 14, 9:06 pm, "burtthebike" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    I'll be writing to my SGlos councillor, insisting on action to educate the
    cretins responsible for road works, and to Bristol Water, for much the same
    thing, and to A+S police to find out what action they should take when a
    road hazard is reported to them, and why they didn't do it.

    Unfortunately I don't think there is much the local council could do
    if the signs were just placed in the cycle lane because it's perfectly
    OK to stick signs at the side of the road to warn of roadworks. If
    not enough warning was given of the hole in the road then that is
    covered by the NRSWA but I'm not sure it makes provision for extra
    signage around corners or for cyclists. Similarly telling them to put
    the signs on the pavement would only cause the pedestrians to moan!

    This isn't to say that common sense is not allowed in such
    circumstances.

    You're probably better off complaining to Bristol Water and/or local
    councillor who may have a word with the people involved.

    At least you didn't go around a blind bend under a pier to find the
    cycle lane taped off and covered in wet tar which ended up all around
    the rider and all over the bike!

    peter

  17. "vernon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:


    And if the collision was clearly caused by the people digging up the
    road's failure to do it safely?

    Collisions are caused by poor road behaviour not by road works. Hitting
    debris/apparatus from roadworks then colliding with another road user as a
    direct consequence is a different matter.


    Vernon, I've read many of your posts and I appreciate that you are a
    commuting cyclist who knows the problems we face, but your response above is
    somewhat simplistic. Yes, collisions are caused by poor road behaviour, but
    does that exempt people doing road works from doing those works in a safe
    and considerate manner? The answer must be no, and they have to take into
    consideration the safety of all users of that road. They did not do so, and
    while I would have no problem blaming the driver who hit me for driving too
    fast, I would also blame the people digging the hole for being negligent and
    cretinously stupid. They have a legal and moral responsibility to do
    whatever they do safely and considerately. If they fail to do so, and fail
    to even realise that they have failed to do so, and deny it when it is
    pointed out to them, then they deserve everything they get.

    All this would have taken to sort out is a grain of common sense. Instead I
    got the "it's all right according to the regulations, so I don't care if
    it's dangerous." which is inexcusable, indefensible and despicable. People
    who have responsibility for any aspect of road safety who adopt this
    attitude should find a job they might be able to do competently, like
    emptying bins perhaps. If they are clearly not concerned with the safety of
    vulnerable road users, how the hell did they get their job? And should they
    be allowed to keep it?

  18. burtthebike said:

    "Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]>
    wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    burtthebike said:

    Anyone know what the legal situation is when people doing road works
    make the road extremely dangerous for cyclists?

    This morning, going up Filton Hill on the A38 into Bristol, on a LH
    bend (dual carriageway, 40mph limit) the cycle lane was blocked with
    a couple of men at work signs, and farther up, the roadworks blocked
    it completely, forcing cyclists into the motor traffic lane, coming
    up the hill at 40mph. The local council did respond pretty quickly,
    but the police weren't interested. It would have been possible for
    cyclists to be accommodated safely, but this wasn't done.

    Haven't seen it since this morning, anyone know if it's still quite
    so bloody dangerous?

    What would have been the situation if a cyclist had been struck by a
    motor vehicle whilst avoiding the roadworks?

    1. If there was a footpath, the roadworks were not forcing you to
    cycle on the road as you could have got off and walked (ahead or
    back)

    Quite right, but why wasn't provision made at the road works to make
    them safe for all road users, including cyclists?

    Perhaps they were considered safe enough. There is no obligation to provide
    special cycling provisions past roadworks just because there is a cycle lane
    leading up to them - or anywhere just because it would be relatively
    dangerous for cyclists compared to average roads.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    2. Why exactly was it dangerous to ride on the main carriageway? Cars
    going uphill at 40 mph isn't enough to make a dual carriageway
    dangerous to cycle on. So was there anything else?

    It's on a left hand bend, uphill, dual carriageway, 40mph limit (very
    much a minimum) and you've got to pull out around the signs and the
    works into the quite narrow nearside lane with cars doing 40+ coming
    up the hill. I cycle 12 miles through heavy traffic every day, and
    let me tell you, this was dangerous.

    Everyone has different ideas about what it takes for a road to be "dangeous"
    to cycle on. Personally, cars have to be doing 70+, or the surface very
    bad, for narrow lanes to bother me - including those with hills and
    roadworks. Even then I don't expect special cycle provisions. I have the
    choice whether to proceed or not.

    ~PB

  19. "Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    burtthebike said:

    "Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]>
    wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    burtthebike wrote:

    Quite right, but why wasn't provision made at the road works to make
    them safe for all road users, including cyclists?

    Perhaps they were considered safe enough. There is no obligation to
    provide special cycling provisions past roadworks just because there is a
    cycle lane leading up to them - or anywhere just because it would be
    relatively dangerous for cyclists compared to average roads.

    Wrong. Traffic Advisory Leaflet 15/99 "Cyclists at Road Works"

    "Existing cycle facilities: where there is cycle provision, such as cycle
    lanes or tracks, efforts should be made to keep these open or to provide an
    acceptable alternative during the road works. They should not be blocked by
    signs, debris, plant etc."

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    2. Why exactly was it dangerous to ride on the main carriageway? Cars
    going uphill at 40 mph isn't enough to make a dual carriageway
    dangerous to cycle on. So was there anything else?

    It's on a left hand bend, uphill, dual carriageway, 40mph limit (very
    much a minimum) and you've got to pull out around the signs and the
    works into the quite narrow nearside lane with cars doing 40+ coming
    up the hill. I cycle 12 miles through heavy traffic every day, and
    let me tell you, this was dangerous.

    Everyone has different ideas about what it takes for a road to be
    "dangeous" to cycle on. Personally, cars have to be doing 70+, or the
    surface very bad, for narrow lanes to bother me - including those with
    hills and roadworks.

    I contend that any reasonable person would agree that this situation was
    clearly dangerous.

    Even then I don't expect special cycle provisions. I have the

    Quoted message said:

    choice whether to proceed or not.

    So you'd just wait there until the road works were done??? Don't you think
    that the highway authority has the duty to provide safe passage for all road
    users? This would seem to be the sole reason for their existence. They
    could quite easily have done so, but chose not to.

  20. burtthebike said:
    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps they were considered safe enough. There is no obligation to
    provide special cycling provisions past roadworks just because there
    is a cycle lane leading up to them - or anywhere just because it
    would be relatively dangerous for cyclists compared to average roads.

    Wrong. Traffic Advisory Leaflet 15/99 "Cyclists at Road Works"

    "Existing cycle facilities: where there is cycle provision, such as
    cycle lanes or tracks, efforts should be made to keep these open or
    to provide an acceptable alternative during the road works. They
    should not be blocked by signs, debris, plant etc."

    I stand corrected on that point (if the advisory counts as obligation in
    law).

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > 2. Why exactly was it dangerous to ride on the main carriageway?
    > Cars going uphill at 40 mph isn't enough to make a dual carriageway
    > dangerous to cycle on. So was there anything else?

    It's on a left hand bend, uphill, dual carriageway, 40mph limit
    (very much a minimum) and you've got to pull out around the signs
    and the works into the quite narrow nearside lane with cars doing
    40+ coming up the hill. I cycle 12 miles through heavy traffic
    every day, and let me tell you, this was dangerous.

    Everyone has different ideas about what it takes for a road to be
    "dangeous" to cycle on. Personally, cars have to be doing 70+, or
    the surface very bad, for narrow lanes to bother me - including
    those with hills and roadworks.

    I contend that any reasonable person would agree that this situation
    was clearly dangerous.

    I suggest that some reasonable experienced cyclists would not be bothered by
    it.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Even then I don't expect special cycle provisions. I have the
    choice whether to proceed or not.

    So you'd just wait there until the road works were done???

    If I really thought the road was dangerous I would get on the footpath or
    find another route.

    Usually though if I'm on a cycle lane and see roadworks ahead, I simply get
    onto the main carriageway well in advance, and use it normally. Narrow
    lanes without cycle lanes with cars doing 40+ are not extraordinary, and
    it's not extraordinary for them to have bends and hills. They don't have to
    have a cycle lane for them to be safe to cycle on.

    Quoted message said:

    Don't you
    think that the highway authority has the duty to provide safe passage
    for all road users?

    Yes, but from your description, the road doesn't sound dangerous to cycle on
    to me.

    ~PB

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