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Re: ACE Hardware Intel (TOP SECRET)

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Road Cycling
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11 December 2007
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  1. MagillaGorilla said:

    http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/13780.0.htmlhttp://www.agencyforcyclingethics.com

    This is the latest intelligence report from Magilla 007...

    ACE gets 100% of its revenue from cycling teams. Therefore, it has a
    financial conflict of interest because a positive test might cause the
    team's sponsor to want to pull out of the sport. At the very least it
    would cause the sponsor to reconsier its financial involvement. But a
    negative test, on the other hand, would make a sponsor happy and keep
    the test money flowing.

    So ACE has a built-in financial conflict of interst to cover up positive
    test results and to instead make teams, sponsors, and riders look like
    angels. As of this date, I am aware of no athlete - ZERO - who has
    tested positive through ACE. No rider has been suspended by the UCI
    because of an ACE positive. And I bet this will continue until nuclear
    fusion stops on the sun, which covers at least through the London
    Olympics in 2012.

    dumbass,

    that site implies that the ACE is employed by sponsors to ensure that
    the team it sponsors will not ne involved in a doping scandal.

    so i imagine that if the ACE caught a doper it would intervene before
    it became an official doping violation -- which is probably what
    happened to hontchar.

    but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
    involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?

  2. Quoted message said:

    but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
    involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?

    Yeah, doping is killing baseball in the US. American
    football barely survived (and is continuing to barely
    survive) it's ongoing doping problems.

    Doping has driven soccer to it's death bed.

    Bob Schwartz

  3. "Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
    involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?

    Yeah, doping is killing baseball in the US. American
    football barely survived (and is continuing to barely
    survive) it's ongoing doping problems.

    Doping has driven soccer to it's death bed.

    Bob, you have to absolutely cease being observant and instead listen to the
    world's experts here who don't ride bike.

  4. Quoted message said:
    MagillaGorilla said:

    http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/13780.0.htmlhttp://www.agencyforcyclingethics.com

    This is the latest intelligence report from Magilla 007...

    ACE gets 100% of its revenue from cycling teams. Therefore, it has a
    financial conflict of interest because a positive test might cause the
    team's sponsor to want to pull out of the sport. At the very least it
    would cause the sponsor to reconsier its financial involvement. But a
    negative test, on the other hand, would make a sponsor happy and keep
    the test money flowing.

    So ACE has a built-in financial conflict of interst to cover up positive
    test results and to instead make teams, sponsors, and riders look like
    angels. As of this date, I am aware of no athlete - ZERO - who has
    tested positive through ACE. No rider has been suspended by the UCI
    because of an ACE positive. And I bet this will continue until nuclear
    fusion stops on the sun, which covers at least through the London
    Olympics in 2012.

    dumbass,

    that site implies that the ACE is employed by sponsors to ensure that
    the team it sponsors will not ne involved in a doping scandal.

    so i imagine that if the ACE caught a doper it would intervene before
    it became an official doping violation -- which is probably what
    happened to hontchar.

    but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
    involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?

    This system has less protections than WADA should a rider contest the
    findings of the lab. Apparently, Hontchar did not contest the finding.

    So I don't understand the logic in the system whereby all these riders
    contest the findings through a WADA-positive but somehow would be
    expected to not do the same with an ACE Hardware positive (unless of
    course a positive test would be covered up).

    This ACE Hardware system has yet to be fully vetted in this respect.

    All this ACE system thing does is keep the doping case out of any
    official forum (read public forum) and denies due process to any rider
    who signs with a team that has it. That's hardly something to get
    excited about and is far WORSE than the current WADA system in terms of
    due process.

    So it's a PR buffer for sponsors - an ACE bandage of sorts.

    And what will the public think when their favorite rider just suddenly
    stops riding and gets a job delivering pizza? The reality is if a guy
    like Lance ever tested positive unde the ACE System (although the
    thought of Postal ever joing such a thing is hilarious to begin with),
    the lab tech would be found floating face down in the river the next day.

    Also, any rider fired through this ACE system will have their doping
    positive considered confidential and will be free to get another job
    with another team. If you are a good enough dope rider like DiLusional
    or Basshole, numerous teams without ACE Bandage protection will offer
    you a contract which we see time after time. Look no further than
    Millar, Tylenol, Virenque. Pestachio, Zabel....these guys aren't
    unemployable in the European peloton by any stretch.

    So unless all the Pro Tour teams agree to have ACE Hardware protection,
    all it's going to do is make Tom Danielson get 17th on GC in the Tour.
    Instead of getting axed by doping cases, these sponsors and teams will
    suffer a far worse fate: chronic losing.

    I'll be you $5,000 Astana will NEVER EVER join the ACE Hardware system.
    Why? Because they don't want 40% of their Tour team showing up on the
    radar at the end of June.

    The only teams that will subject themselves to this gay form of
    self-policing are teams that don't matter in any race anyway.

    Because when all is said and done, if you want to win the Tour, you
    better go make a doctor's appointment with Schumi in March.

    Magilla

  5. On Dec 11, 9:39 am, Bob Schwartz <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
    involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?

    Yeah, doping is killing baseball in the US. American
    football barely survived (and is continuing to barely
    survive) it's ongoing doping problems.

    dumbass,

    are you vino's PR manager ? that is some lame apologist stance - maybe
    you should contact nike to tell them that they should take back
    michael vick because hey at least he's not rae carruth.

    lister and magilla are right, the riders are so narcissistic they
    don't even realize how arrogant they look to the (non protour semen
    filled) members of the public.

    what is vino trying to say when he says it's unfair the doping cops
    are picking on cycling?

    and what were the spanish pros trying to say when they decided to
    stage a protest at the championships the week after operation puerto
    went public ?

    look at the podium of the '96 tour (riis, ullrich, virenque,
    dufaux,...) you have a zero sum game, dopers are battling other
    dopers, like gangs having a turf war and maybe sinkewitz screwed some
    promising 19 yr old (who may or may not have been clean) out of a spot
    on the mapei farm team on his way to a $700k contract, but for the
    most part it doesn't have any effect on the rest of society.

  6. Quoted message said:

    On Dec 11, 9:39 am, Bob Schwartz <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
    involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?

    Yeah, doping is killing baseball in the US. American
    football barely survived (and is continuing to barely
    survive) it's ongoing doping problems.

    dumbass,

    are you vino's PR manager ? that is some lame apologist stance - maybe
    you should contact nike to tell them that they should take back
    michael vick because hey at least he's not rae carruth.

    lister and magilla are right, the riders are so narcissistic they
    don't even realize how arrogant they look to the (non protour semen
    filled) members of the public.

    what is vino trying to say when he says it's unfair the doping cops
    are picking on cycling?

    and what were the spanish pros trying to say when they decided to
    stage a protest at the championships the week after operation puerto
    went public ?

    look at the podium of the '96 tour (riis, ullrich, virenque,
    dufaux,...) you have a zero sum game, dopers are battling other
    dopers, like gangs having a turf war and maybe sinkewitz screwed some
    promising 19 yr old (who may or may not have been clean) out of a spot
    on the mapei farm team on his way to a $700k contract, but for the
    most part it doesn't have any effect on the rest of society.

    That's an ALL-MADDEN TEAM post right there.

    Magilla

  7. Quoted message said:

    On Dec 11, 9:39 am, Bob Schwartz <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
    involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?


    Yeah, doping is killing baseball in the US. American
    football barely survived (and is continuing to barely
    survive) it's ongoing doping problems.

    dumbass,

    are you vino's PR manager ? that is some lame apologist stance - maybe
    you should contact nike to tell them that they should take back
    michael vick because hey at least he's not rae carruth.

    Apologize for what? I'm saying the fans don't care. And they
    don't. The evidence is in the stands watching Barry Bonds
    hit home runs. Michael Vick's biggest PR problem is that fans
    care about their dogs.

    Back in 2001 I was in the Alps before the Alpe d'Huez stage,
    and there was this guy staying at our gite that was a BIG
    LANCE ARMSTRONG FAN, and a CTS client. I casually mentioned
    that someone that was working with the world's leader in
    doping programs for cyclists was probably using his service
    to implement a doping program. I still remember the look on
    that guy's face when I said that. I didn't think it was
    such a massive leap in logic, but this guy clearly did not
    want to know about it.

    That's why all the sports dealing with pressure to reduce
    doping are feeling that pressure come from outside their
    sports, from people that do not have an emotional
    attachment to the athletes.

    Bob Schwartz

  8. Bob Schwartz said:

    Apologize for what? I'm saying the fans don't care. And they don't. The
    evidence is in the stands watching Barry Bonds hit home runs. Michael
    Vick's biggest PR problem is that fans care about their dogs.

    And cyclists love their dogs (well OK Tugboat might not agree),
    just look at all the cyclist whose dogs make it onto lists.

  9. Quoted message said:

    look it up and you will see bonds makes a fraction in endorsements
    compared to say jeter and that is why botero and fred rodriguez go
    from riding the tour to riding for diesel jeans next year.

    Oh, I would never say doping is not a problem for the athlete.
    It kills careers. But all sports are meat grinders for athletes,
    who are replaceable. The sport is saying, "Barry who? Marion
    who? Floyd who?" Their respective sports will just move merrily
    along to the next wunderjock and flush baggage like Marion Jones
    from their memory.

    Doping is a problem for a sport when rooms at Alpe d'Huez are
    empty. When the stadiums are empty. When the value of the TV
    contract for the Olympics drops. The athletes are only so much
    hamburger.

    Bob Schwartz

  10. Bob Schwartz said:
    Quoted message said:

    On Dec 11, 9:39 am, Bob Schwartz <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] wrote:

    > but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
    > involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?

    Yeah, doping is killing baseball in the US. American
    football barely survived (and is continuing to barely
    survive) it's ongoing doping problems.

    dumbass,

    are you vino's PR manager ? that is some lame apologist stance - maybe
    you should contact nike to tell them that they should take back
    michael vick because hey at least he's not rae carruth.

    Apologize for what? I'm saying the fans don't care. And they
    don't. The evidence is in the stands watching Barry Bonds
    hit home runs. Michael Vick's biggest PR problem is that fans
    care about their dogs.

    Back in 2001 I was in the Alps before the Alpe d'Huez stage,
    and there was this guy staying at our gite that was a BIG
    LANCE ARMSTRONG FAN, and a CTS client. I casually mentioned
    that someone that was working with the world's leader in
    doping programs for cyclists was probably using his service
    to implement a doping program. I still remember the look on
    that guy's face when I said that. I didn't think it was
    such a massive leap in logic, but this guy clearly did not
    want to know about it.

    That's why all the sports dealing with pressure to reduce
    doping are feeling that pressure come from outside their
    sports, from people that do not have an emotional
    attachment to the athletes.

    Bob Schwartz

    It's a bit more complex than that.

    Fans of both athletes and celebrities alike are fair-weather friends not
    to mention borderline stalker psychopaths. It only takes a minor shift
    in the breeze to go from asking for that autograph to mailing a
    pipebomb. And even then, these delusional fans fight the dope test
    results tooth and nail until they've run out of rationalizations.

    Once a rider is officially busted and runs out of appeals, most of these
    superficial fans will take all their anger in their life and direct it
    against their former hero. Even your run-of-the-mill psychopath stalker
    fan loves to attend a good public hanging every now and then of a Floyd
    or Vino or even a Rob Pilatus.

    Easy come easy go.

    Fab
    Milli Vanilli

  11. Bob Schwartz said:
    Quoted message said:

    On Dec 11, 9:39 am, Bob Schwartz <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] wrote:

    > but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
    > involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?

    Yeah, doping is killing baseball in the US. American
    football barely survived (and is continuing to barely
    survive) it's ongoing doping problems.

    dumbass,

    are you vino's PR manager ? that is some lame apologist stance - maybe
    you should contact nike to tell them that they should take back
    michael vick because hey at least he's not rae carruth.

    Apologize for what? I'm saying the fans don't care. And they
    don't. The evidence is in the stands watching Barry Bonds
    hit home runs. Michael Vick's biggest PR problem is that fans
    care about their dogs.

    Back in 2001 I was in the Alps before the Alpe d'Huez stage,
    and there was this guy staying at our gite that was a BIG
    LANCE ARMSTRONG FAN, and a CTS client. I casually mentioned
    that someone that was working with the world's leader in
    doping programs for cyclists was probably using his service
    to implement a doping program. I still remember the look on
    that guy's face when I said that. I didn't think it was
    such a massive leap in logic, but this guy clearly did not
    want to know about it.

    That's why all the sports dealing with pressure to reduce
    doping are feeling that pressure come from outside their
    sports, from people that do not have an emotional
    attachment to the athletes.

    Bob Schwartz

    It's a bit more complex than that.

    Fans of both athletes and celebrities alike are fair-weather friends not
    to mention borderline stalker psychopaths. It only takes a minor shift
    in the breeze to go from asking for that autograph to mailing a
    pipebomb. And even then, these delusional fans fight the dope test
    results tooth and nail until they've run out of rationalizations.

    Once a rider is officially busted and runs out of appeals, most of these
    superficial fans will take all their anger in their life and direct it
    against their former hero. Even your run-of-the-mill psychopath stalker
    fan loves to attend a good public hanging every now and then of a Floyd
    or Vino or even a Rob Pilatus.

    Easy come easy go.

    Fab
    Milli Vanilli

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