Recumbent

Tired said:

What are they like going up hill? Seems such a relaxed position and
most video's I've seen show them as fast on the flat and downhill but
not much about them as a climber.

Depends a lot on the weight of the machine, and whether its two or three
wheeled.

In general(*) two wheeled recumbents climb slower than two wheeled uprights.
Three wheeled recumbents slower again, but you can climb at a complete crawl
if the gears go low enough as they don't fall over.

Most recumbents are heavier than equivalent priced two wheeled machines, so
uphills tends to count against them.

Overall I found the one I owned to be slower than an upright tourer over
fairly flat East Anglia (Pashley PDQ vs Nigel Dean World Tour).
I'm sure that a lighter, sportier recumbent would be a lot quicker than the
PDQ; it was pretty heavy, the seat didn't fit me that well, and the SRAM 3x7
gear seemed to be like pedalling treacle unless in the middle (direct) drive
setting.
Something like a Ratcatcher weighs in not substantially different to an
upright.

(* ie. about as useful as "how good is a bike uphill" when bike could mean
15lb carbon racer, or 40lbs+ of cast iron roadster )

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

"Tired" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

What are they like going up hill? Seems such a relaxed position and most
video's I've seen show them as fast on the flat and downhill but not much
about them as a climber.

That depends upon what type of recumbent you're cycling. Example - my 'bent
is a tourer, so it's not the lightest of models, so I'm slower up hills than
on my upright tourer. But if I was on a lightweight carbon-fibre jobbie, I'd
be a lot faster up the hills...

Quoted message said:

What are they like going up hill? Seems such a relaxed position and
most video's I've seen show them as fast on the flat and downhill but
not much about them as a climber.

Does anyone know if there's anything inherent in the recumbent riding
position that would make them slower up hills?

On 9 Dec 2007 12:15:59 GMT
Mark T
<pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What are they like going up hill? Seems such a relaxed position and
most video's I've seen show them as fast on the flat and downhill
but not much about them as a climber.

Does anyone know if there's anything inherent in the recumbent riding
position that would make them slower up hills?

Compared to what?

Dropping into granny gear and taking it easy? Or standing on the
pedals and pulling on the bars for maximum effort (pant, pant)?

--
not me guv

Mark T said:

Quoted message said:

What are they like going up hill? Seems such a relaxed position and
most video's I've seen show them as fast on the flat and downhill but
not much about them as a climber.

Does anyone know if there's anything inherent in the recumbent riding
position that would make them slower up hills?

Massive thread discussing dynamics of uphill cycling and walking here:

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.rec.cycling/browse_frm/thread/613d3cdc0322aeb1/ae1a228185ac12e4?hl=en&lnk=st&q=artemisia+bike+uphill#ae1a228185ac12e4

or

http://tinyurl.com/38snrs

What we didn't get round to discussing was whether the fact that you can
stand on the pedals on an upright bike, and thus convert gravity into
forward motion, is not an advantage over your position on a recumbent,
where the available force is only what you can push from your abdomen,
unaided by God or Newton.

EFR
Ile de France

Artemisia said:

What we didn't get round to discussing was whether the fact that you can
stand on the pedals on an upright bike, and thus convert gravity into
forward motion, is not an advantage over your position on a recumbent,
where the available force is only what you can push from your abdomen,
unaided by God or Newton.

Really don't see how it can be.

If you push(down, forwards) on a pedal, two things will happen: your
foot will move (downwards, forwards) and power the bike, and your hip
will move (backwards, upwards). On an upright, this latter movement is
resisted by (a) your weight, (b) sometimes you can pull on the bars to
hold yourself in place. On a recumbent these are not options, but the
back of the seat is almost certainly far more effective at holding you
in place anyway.

-dan

"Tired" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What are they like going up hill? Seems such a relaxed position and most
video's I've seen show them as fast on the flat and downhill but not much
about them as a climber.

Well, they tend to be heavier and you can't stand on the pedals.
Two-wheeled 'bents also tend to be less stable at low speeds; the lower
centre of gravity makes them twitchier - compare balancing an upright broom
on your hand as opposed to a short brush.

These climb pretty well... www.cruzbike.com I had a Sofrider (it was nicked)
and now have a kit fitted to a cheap Y-frame bike.

Cheers
--
Keith

09 Dec 2007 14:05:46 +0000 said:

Artemisia said:

What we didn't get round to discussing was whether the fact that
you can stand on the pedals on an upright bike, and thus convert
gravity into forward motion, is not an advantage over your position
on a recumbent, where the available force is only what you can push
from your abdomen, unaided by God or Newton.

Really don't see how it can be.

Easy. You get to use all the best muscles in your body - e.g. your
arms and back as you pull on the bars. Not to mention your body
weight on the pedal being pushed.

--
not me guv

Keith Wootten said:

"Tired" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What are they like going up hill? Seems such a relaxed position and most
video's I've seen show them as fast on the flat and downhill but not much
about them as a climber.

Well, they tend to be heavier and you can't stand on the pedals.
Two-wheeled 'bents also tend to be less stable at low speeds; the lower
centre of gravity makes them twitchier - compare balancing an upright broom
on your hand as opposed to a short brush.

These climb pretty well...www.cruzbike.comI had a Sofrider (it was nicked)
and now have a kit fitted to a cheap Y-frame bike.

Are they difficult to ride?

"wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tired" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What are they like going up hill? Seems such a relaxed position and most
video's I've seen show them as fast on the flat and downhill but not much
about them as a climber.

That depends upon what type of recumbent you're cycling. Example - my
'bent is a tourer, so it's not the lightest of models, so I'm slower up
hills than on my upright tourer. But if I was on a lightweight
carbon-fibre jobbie, I'd be a lot faster up the hills...

The more I see of these the more I fancy a go!
Any dealers in the North West or Wales ?

"bornfree" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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<snip Cruzbike stuff>

Quoted message said:

Are they difficult to ride?

At first, yes. After a short while you get the hang of it - relaxing the
upper body is the key. You can apparently ride hands-off with practice - I
can't yet. They're certainly comfortable - the disadvantages for me include
not being able to wear a rucksack and you can't look behind as easily.
However, there's plenty of luggage capacity with a rack fitted, and a mirror
helps with vision.

I think it's a very good design for touring, but not so good for urban
traffic weaving.

Cheers
--
Keith

Nick Kew said:

Easy. You get to use all the best muscles in your body - e.g. your
arms and back as you pull on the bars. Not to mention your body
weight on the pedal being pushed.

I presume you mean on the upright?

EFR
Ile de France

Tired said:

What are they like going up hill? Seems such a relaxed position and
most video's I've seen show them as fast on the flat and downhill but
not much about them as a climber.

What are these "hills" of which you speak?

--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record sprint mongrel
Huissoon project bike (in bits, natch)

Mark T
<pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What are they like going up hill? Seems such a relaxed position and
most video's I've seen show them as fast on the flat and downhill but
not much about them as a climber.

Does anyone know if there's anything inherent in the recumbent riding
position that would make them slower up hills?

there seems if any thing to be greater differance between recumbents.
thus i'd be warey of making too much out of recumbent can or can't do
foo.

extra weight yes would make it slower assuming like with like. hills
over 30% you might get to the point that the bent might try to rise a
wheel. (certinaly mtb's will unless you counter) but i can't see this
being a problem. most roads go around hills that steep.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know if there's anything inherent in the recumbent riding
position that would make them slower up hills?

Compared to what?

Dropping into granny gear and taking it easy? Or standing on the
pedals and pulling on the bars for maximum effort (pant, pant)?

Probably the latter I s'pose. Something along the lines of what riding
position (upright or recumbent) can put the greater power through the
pedals, and what riding position can put through the greatest amount of
power over a period of time.

I'm sure there in't much in it, but it'd be interesting to know.

Nick Kew said:

Easy. You get to use all the best muscles in your body - e.g. your
arms and back as you pull on the bars. Not to mention your body
weight on the pedal being pushed.

If our arms and back were the best muscles in our body we'd have evolved
to walk on them, and handcyclists would be winning BHPC races.

I know *my* legs are thicker than my arms: I'm prepared to bet that's
common even among non-cyclists.

-dan

Mark T said:

Probably the latter I s'pose. Something along the lines of what
riding position (upright or recumbent) can put the greater power
through the pedals,

Greater instantaneous, recumbent easily (I can push much more than my
body weight with my legs when braced with my back against something).

Quoted message said:

and what riding position can put through the greatest amount of
power over a period of time.

Both the same - human body power output is limited by heart
(sometimes) and lungs (for most people). The orientation of the legs
does not govern this.

But neither is greatly relevant to the practical differences. I can
accelerate my diamond frame bikes faster than my recumbent tricycle.
I can ride greater distances in much greater comfort on the recumbent.
The power input alone does not dominate either comparison.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Artemisia said:

What we didn't get round to discussing was whether the fact that you can
stand on the pedals on an upright bike, and thus convert gravity into
forward motion, is not an advantage over your position on a recumbent,
where the available force is only what you can push from your abdomen,
unaided by God or Newton.

On a 'bent you can push against the seat, which is actually a much more
effective thing to push against than gravity, so not being able to honk
isn't the disadvantage most people paint it as. As well as the seat
being a more static point, you don't waste all that energy moving your
body up and down.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

bornfree said:

Are they difficult to ride?

Varies between bikes and between people. Some get on and off they go,
others it takes rather longer.

AFAICT the main problem is folk tend to be naturally tense when trying a
'bent and it's very hard to get the steering when you're very tense.
'Bent steering typically requires very little input, you never have to
pull hard on the bars and even a hill start can be accomplished with one
hand off. Take a machine like that, put someone on it who is (a) tense
and (b) used to heaving hard on their handlebars and you've got a problem...

But there isn't any real intrinsic problem with the balance or the
steering on a 'bent bike once you've dialled in to the difference.
Technically being higher up on a wedgie makes balance a bit easier at
low speed, but then the same thing goes for a penny-farthing being
easier to balance than a "normal" bike: that something else is a little
better doesn't make you're doing especially difficult.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/