Lights for Road Riding

Ken Huizenga said:

I am looking into purchase of a good light system for riding exclusively on long country roads
(100% paved, and mostly straight) and about 1 mile of city streets to get out to the country.

-snip-

Quoted message said:

Desired Performance
==============
80+ feet of straight ahead illumination on the road
2.2 hours with both lights running full time

Cost / Weight
=========
$340 total weight just under 5 pounds.

-snip-

That's all within popular lighting system specs at much lower prices than you budgeted:

yellowjersey.orgcygo.htmlOpen ↗

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Ken,

I haven't used the precise system you propose but I do use a Turbocat single light system and can
comment that I'm quite pleased with it in every way. It's bright, the battery is small but lasts
around 2 hours and the quality of construction is very good. The only downside is that their stuff
is a bit on the expensive side. Given the brightness of my single light, I can't imagine that a dual
light system from them wouldn't provide the amount of light you need.

Rob Strickland

Ken Huizenga said:

I am looking into purchase of a good light system for riding exclusively on long country roads
(100% paved, and mostly straight) and about 1 mile of city streets to get out to the country.

Have you considered a dual-headlight hub dynamo setup? You would want the primary headlight to have
a standlight unless you are willing to mount a tiny battery LED light as well, as I do (on a
one-headlight dynamo setup).
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?

Ken Huizenga said:

Two light fixtures, independently aimable, with one 15 watt bulb in each light with two separate
6V water bottle batteries (Ni Cad). One 15 watt bulb would be a flood light, focused fairly
low/near in.

You would need maybe 5-6 Ah in each batterypack to allow for over 2 hours. Two Nicd packs will be
really heavy. Why not get NiMh. There is a big difference in weight and you also don't have to worry
about the memory effect.

Once you're into designing your own batterypacks you might also wan't to consider overvolting your
lamps. Ie adding an extra bastterycell to each pack making them 7.2 Volts instead of 6 Volts. this
will increase your Wattage and Voltage 20% but your illumination will probably increase 35-45%. The
price you pay is shorter bulb life, but they are usually marked for 2000-4000 hours at 6V and will
probably give you 200-400 hours at 7.2 Volts.

Myself I have a 7.2 V / 9 Ah batterypack of NiMH cells ( 12 cells ). One 5W and one 20W spot. The 20
is more than I need and I can afford the 5 to be a little brighter. Hence I am looking into a 7-8W
flood and a 15W medium spot. Haven't found them yet, maybe I have to change light heads.

You'll often find that production line lighting systems have very good light heads and mounts,
whereas the batterys and chargers usually don't have the same standard.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Ken Huizenga said:

I am looking into purchase of a good light system for riding exclusively on long country roads
(100% paved, and mostly straight) and about 1 mile of city streets to get out to the country. I
want to maximize the length that I can see debris, potholes, etc. in order to react in time. I am
riding a Gold Rush and am capable of speeds in excess of 20mph and over 30mph downhill or with the
wind. (I would slow down, if necessary, at night time for safety. However, part of the reason for
getting a really good lighting system would be to avoid having to slow down much.)

Consider a Schmidt SON hub dynamo. I use one and it's great- weighs less than a battery system
(since it replaces the front hub). While the 3 watt output doesn't sound like much, with a properly
designed light the road is well-lit. I find descending at 30+ mph is just fine, I have plenty of
light to see by.

I like to night ride, and the lack of a battery means I can ride as long as I want and not worry
about running out of juice. I've ridden literally from dusk to dawn several times this past summer.
On the brevets this year and at PBP, I was very impressed. At the latter event, there were people
with high powered battery lights wh wanted to ride on my wheel beause they could see better with my
light than theirs.

See peterwhitecycles.comlightingsystems.htmOpen ↗ (Peter is is the importer) for more
information. If you can read German, the Schmidt page is also available.

Tim McNamara said:

literally from dusk to dawn several times this past summer. On the brevets this year and at PBP, I
was very impressed. At the latter event, there were people with high powered battery lights wh
wanted to ride on my wheel beause they could see better with my light than theirs.

Any excuse. :-)

[But, actually, as one might gather from my other post, I find a SON and Bisy headlamp perfectly
adequate for riding in the dark; I mount battery headlamps as a backup only. Shimano's Nexus has
marginally higher drag, but produces equally adequate lighting.]

How was the PBP?
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?

Ken Huizenga said:

I am looking into purchase of a good light system for riding exclusively on long country roads
(100% paved, and mostly straight) and about 1 mile of city streets to get out to the country. I
want to maximize the length that I can see debris, potholes, etc. in order to react in time. I am
riding a Gold Rush and am capable of speeds in excess of 20mph and over 30mph downhill or with the
wind. (I would slow down, if necessary, at night time for safety. However, part of the reason for
getting a really good lighting system would be to avoid having to slow down much.)

I would like to get at least 2 hours of riding time before recharging. I would also like to avoid
helmet mounted lights. Price is not a major obstacle, I am looking at a system right now which
would cost $340, and that's OK, if "that's what it takes." I willing to use both of my water
bottle holders if necessary for battery storage. Based on the above..., in consultation with one
of the major light system producers (Turbocat) I am seriously considering the following system:

Two light fixtures, independently aimable, with one 15 watt bulb in each light with two separate
6V water bottle batteries (Ni Cad). One 15 watt bulb would be a flood light, focused fairly
low/near in. This would hopefully provide decent lighting up to about 60 feet out, while
simultaneously providing some light for cornering, lighting up signs in front of me, etc. The
other light would be a 15 watt medium spot, focused further out, beyond where the flood light is
illuminating. This would give me advance warning of anything in the road about 60-80 feet out or
perhaps a bit more.

I'm looking for 2nd opinions on the above setup. Any suggestions in terms of different approaches
which you think could work better are appreciated. Of course, any system such as this is a
tradeoff between weight of batteries, riding time between battery recharge and expense. I am
generally OK with the "promised parameters" of the above system:

Desired Performance
==============
80+ feet of straight ahead illumination on the road
2.2 hours with both lights running full time

Cost / Weight
=========
$340 total weight just under 5 pounds.

What I'm asking is whether, in your experience, the above described system will deliver something
close to the above "Desired Performance". Also, if you have any suggestions for how to modify this
system to improve "desired performance attributes" without raising cost/weight or keep the same
Desired Perforance while reducing cost or weight...I'm all ears...er...eyes.

Also...if there are any obvious concerns with the above system...such as the potential for
excessive glare for oncoming traffic, etc., etc. please point out such things as well. Currently,
I would intend to ride with both lights on...all the time (at night). If I need to turn off either
the flood or the spot for oncoming traffic I should buy handlebar switches which are not part of
the current plan.

Don't rule out a dynamo. The drag is negligible - my record commute this year was with the dynamo
running - and even a 6V 3W bulb gives enough light for unlit lanes (definitely buy a 3W bulb instead
of the standard 2.4W, and fit a rear LED).

The advantages are that they're very reliable and will keep going until you run out of pasta. They
reach near-full brightness at about 10km/h (6mph) and modern headlamps have voltage regulators to
prevent blowing at high speeds. I've been over 40mph with mine. Finally, the lamp units are
extremely lightweight and won't get juddered out of alignment.

David Damerell said:

Tim McNamara said:

literally from dusk to dawn several times this past summer. On the brevets this year and at PBP, I
was very impressed. At the latter event, there were people with high powered battery lights wh
wanted to ride on my wheel beause they could see better with my light than theirs.

Any excuse. :-)

Heh!

Quoted message said:

[But, actually, as one might gather from my other post, I find a SON and Bisy headlamp perfectly
adequate for riding in the dark; I mount battery headlamps as a backup only. Shimano's Nexus has
marginally higher drag, but produces equally adequate lighting.]

How was the PBP?

I had a great time even though knee pain kept me from finishing. What a wonderful event- 4,000
bikies from all over the world tring to ride 750+ miles in 90 hours or less. And French people out
in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night, cheering you on! Just amazing.

www2.bitstream.netbrevets 2003.htmlOpen ↗

David Damerell said:

How was the PBP?

One last OT comment, which the folks from the UK will appreciate. There were two middle aged guys
who did PBP on a Longstaff tandem trike. *That* was something to watch go around corners.

"Ken Huizenga" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I am looking into purchase of a good light system for riding exclusively on long country roads
(100% paved, and mostly straight) and about 1 mile of city streets to get out to the country. I
want to maximize the length that I can see debris, potholes, etc. in order to react in time. I am
riding a Gold Rush and am capable of speeds in excess of 20mph and over 30mph downhill or with the
wind. (I would slow down, if necessary, at night time for safety. However, part of the reason for
getting a really good lighting system would be to avoid having to slow down much.)

Well, there have been several votes for the SON generator already- but you'll have to get the
special one for the 20" front wheel on your Fold Rush. Throwing a consistent 80-foot beam would be
the problem, I think- it would require combining a good bulb with a good reflector. The lights sold
with the SON are supposed to be pretty good, while the TurboCat/NiteRider/NightSun systems generally
use off-the-shelf low-voltage bulbs, IIRC.

Once you're out in the country, you probably won't have a problem seeing stuff out ahead of you...
until oncoming traffic dazzles you with their headlights. Then you won't see anything. Done that,
been there.

FWIW: I use a 15 watt NiteRider single light for my urban commute on my Tour Easy, one hour each
way. It's adequate for most of Portland's streets, lit and otherwise.

A good place to get more opinions is the BikeCurrent list:
topica.comreadOpen ↗

Jeff

Regarding the hub generator suggestions...although I can see the merits of this option for some
folks, it would cause two problems for me:
1. I have Aerospoke wheels front and back on my Tour Easy, and they require Aerospoke hubs. I like
them alot and am probably not willing to trash them in order to run a hub generator.
2. Although I don't believe I mentioned it in my original post, I have also ordered a Trice Eclipse
tadpole trike. I believe I would like one lighting system to work for both the Tour Easy and the
Trice simply by moving the water bottle holders and the lights on quick release clamps. The only
thing I would leave in terms of the lighting "system" on both vehicles would be the wires to
connect the batteries and the lights.

Another thing I like about the proposed Turbocat system is the additional flexibility it affords me
due to two lights and two batteries...
3. Extend my riding time on one bike to about 4 hours by using only one light at a time. In
daylight I have done lots of 50-100 miles rides. Not sure if I'll want to do such long rides at
night, but it might be nice to have the option.
4. Ride both vehicles at the same time (with a friend riding one, of course)

For either of the above, I will probably get either an additional 15W spot or flood, depending on
which I think works best by itself for the type of riding I'm doing. On the other hand, when riding
together it might work out fine to have the spot/flood combination on the two *ikes.🙂

Ken Huizenga Appleton, Wisconsin Folding Gold Rush Trice Eclipse in February 2004

Quoted message said:

Well, there have been several votes for the SON generator already- but you'll have to get the
special one for the 20" front wheel on your Fold Rush. Throwing a consistent 80-foot beam would be
the problem, I think- it would require combining a good bulb with a good reflector. The lights
sold with the SON are supposed to be pretty good, while the TurboCat/NiteRider/NightSun systems
generally use off-the-shelf low-voltage bulbs, IIRC.

Once you're out in the country, you probably won't have a problem seeing stuff out ahead of you...
until oncoming traffic dazzles you with their headlights. Then you won't see anything. Done that,
been there.

FWIW: I use a 15 watt NiteRider single light for my urban commute on my Tour Easy, one hour each
way. It's adequate for most of Portland's streets, lit and otherwise.

A good place to get more opinions is the BikeCurrent list:
topica.comreadOpen ↗

Jeff

David Damerell said:

Have you considered a dual-headlight hub dynamo setup? You would want the primary headlight to
have a standlight unless you are willing to mount a tiny battery LED light as well, as I do (on a
one-headlight dynamo setup).

Good point, and let me point out, dual headlights are possible with at least some non-hub dynamos,
so the setup can be less expensive. I run dual headlights with a Soubitez bottom bracket generator.

I think one factor is the diameter of the roller. Smaller rollers (as on most bottle generators)
require larger friction force, and might be prone to slip. But my Soubitez runs two headlights very
reliably - although I usually use only one.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]

"Ken Huizenga" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]-
kc.rr.com>... <snip> Another thing I like about the proposed Turbocat system is the additional

Quoted message said:

flexibility it affords me due to two lights and two batteries...

<snip>

Quoted message said:

2. Ride both vehicles at the same time (with a friend riding one, of course)

Naw- tow the Fold Rush with the Trice! Always carry a spare, I say!

Jeff

Quoted message said:

For either of the above, I will probably get either an additional 15W spot
or flood, depending on which I think works best by itself for the type of
riding I'm doing. On the other hand, when riding together it might work out
fine to have the spot/flood combination on the two *ikes.🙂

I don't think any light will light the ground more then 10' or so ahead of you. I have been playing
around with my over volted halogen system. I have tried 10 degree pots and 20 degree so far. you get
about 1/2 a circle of light and that's it. maybe 10' in front of you at most. then it just fades
pretty fast.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See knight-knight-Open ↗
toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Steve Knight said:

Quoted message said:

For either of the above, I will probably get either an additional 15W spot or flood, depending on
which I think works best by itself for the type of riding I'm doing. On the other hand, when
riding together it might work out fine to have the spot/flood combination on the two *ikes.🙂

I don't think any light will light the ground more then 10' or so ahead of you. I have been
playing around with my over volted halogen system. I have tried 10 degree pots and 20 degree so
far. you get about 1/2 a circle of light and that's it. maybe 10' in front of you at most. then it
just fades pretty fast.

Which angle of light did you find suited you best? I have a 20W / 8 degree spot on my overvolted
system right now. I am looking for a 15W / 20 degree medium spot. What does your experience say
about my proposed setup? I'll be mainly going off road with this setup. I also have a 5W lamp.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

"Ken Huizenga" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am looking into purchase of a good light system for riding exclusively

on

Quoted message said:

long country roads (100% paved, and mostly straight) and about 1 mile of city streets to get out
to the country. I want to maximize the length

that

<snip>

Ken:

Rather than buying two commercial systems, here is my suggestion:

Buy one set of Optronics QH-7CC driving lights, two Driftmaster Pro 204-B rail clamps, one 20W MR16
wide flood, on e 20W MR16 Spot, ten 9000 mAH D cell NiMH batteries, and a Maha MH-C777 plus charger.
This will give you 90WH which will power both 20W lamps for two hours or so. Add a 12 volt Xenon
strobe for the rear. Will cost you about $225 or so. You could over-voltage the lamps with 12 D
cells, and up the WH to 108. The big expense is in the batteries (10 9000mA D cells will cost you
$90) and the charger.

The only difficulty you'll have is in finding 10 or 12 D cell battery holders. I've seen these, but
only for larger orders. You can always use two sixes or a four and a six. Or build your own with a
plastic tube.

Personally, I'd forget about separate aiming and go with the Eagle Eye 1874C dual MR16 fixture, and
a single mount.

The cost of the charger really drives up the price, but you want a smart charger when you're
spending so much on batteries; as someone else pointed out, the commercial systems usually don't
include a smart charger.

If you drop down to 10 watts for each lamp then you can get by with a sealed lead acid battery,
if you don't mind the extra weight. Remember that with NiMH you get pretty much the rated watt-
hours out of the battery, while with lead acid you'll be lucky to get 60% of the rating (they are
rated for 20 hour discharge rate). Unfortunately, there's nothing between 10W and 20W in the MR16
size lamps.

You can get some more ideas at my web site, bicyclelighting.combicyclelighting.comOpen ↗

Forget about Ni-Cads; they have a poor weight to capacity ratio, and they suffer from the memory
effect (uh-oh, I'm opening up that can of worms, but the memory effect is very real, if a misnomer).
Forget about two 6 volt systems; you'll need two chargers unless you want to get up in the middle of
the night and move the charger from one pack to the other.

If you're willing to go down to two 10W lamps, over voltaged to 12W, then you have some less
expensive options because you can use AA batteries which are much less expensive. I.e. you can use
twelve 2000mAH AA batteries which in reality will give you about 26WH, and run a 10W lamp at 12W
lamp for 2.2 hours. You can buy AA NiMH batteries that are rated at 2000mAH but that are actually
about 1800mAH for less than $1 each. I wouldn't go over 12W with AA cells though, so you'll need
separate batteries for each light.

Steve Bicycle Lighting Academician

Zog The Undeniable said:

Don't rule out a dynamo. The drag is negligible - my record commute this year was with the dynamo
running - and even a 6V 3W bulb gives enough light for unlit lanes (definitely buy a 3W bulb
instead of the standard 2.4W, and fit a rear LED).

I don't agree. 3W and 2.4W don't actually look that different, and there's a definite advantage to
having a rear light controlled from the handlebars if you ride in areas with tunnels.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 13:42:07 GMT, "Steven M. Scharf"

Quoted message said:

Buy one set of Optronics QH-7CC driving lights, two Driftmaster Pro 204-B rail clamps, one 20W MR16
wide flood, on e 20W MR16 Spot, ten 9000 mAH D cell NiMH batteries, and a Maha MH-C777 plus
charger. This will give you 90WH which will power both 20W lamps for two hours or so. Add a 12 volt
Xenon strobe for the rear. Will cost you about $225 or so. You could over-voltage the lamps with 12
D cells, and up the WH to 108. The big expense is in the batteries (10 9000mA D cells will cost you
$90) and the charger.

that's a lot of light. right now using 20w 20 degree overvolted 12v bulb I get plenty of light. when
I get my foglight in I will use a 35 w 41k bulb. far more then enough light plus far less bulky.
right now I am using two 9.6v sub c 3000ma battery packs. I get about 1.5 hours or so of light.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See knight-knight-Open ↗
toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Steve Knight <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I don't think any light will light the ground more then 10' or so ahead of you.

If this was the case you sure would have to ride slow.

: I have been playing around with my over volted halogen system. I have tried 10 degree pots and 20
: degree so far. you get about 1/2 a circle of light and that's it. maybe 10' in front of you at
: most. then it just fades pretty fast.

My 20 watt (12 volt) halogen spot can spot a black skunk on a black road at 100 feet. I can see the
reflectors of another bicycle a quarter of a mile away.

These lamps can be bought at Home Depot for 8 dollars and come with their own built in housings.

--------------------------------
Bob Masse' [email hidden]
--------------------------------