Help with cheese sauce

Valentine said:

Yesterday I tried a new recipe for white truffle mac and cheese. Im
going to paste the recipe here but wanted to get thoughts on what went
wrong.

Once cooked, it was like a white sauce that broke with the oil
separating from the cheese.
Could it have been- cooked too long or at too high temp?
Could it have been the truffle oil?
I also added a bit more cheese than was called for when stirring the
cheese sauce but when I added it to the pasta it was very creamy. I
used really good cheeses so they would be a high quality. It tasted
WONDERFUL but looked not so nice.

Ideas?

8 oz (2 1/2 cups) uncooked mostaccioli or penne
2 tbsp margarine or butter
2 tbsp flour
1/4 tsp salt
1/8 tsp white pepper
Dash nutmeg
1 tsp white truffle oil
1 1/4 cups half-&-half
1/2 c shredded Fontina cheese
1/2 c shredded Gruyere cheese
1/2 c shredded aged White Cheddar cheese
2 tbsp dry white wine
2 tbsp sliced green onions

1. Heat over to 350. Spray 1 1/2 quart casserole with nonstick cooking
spray. Cook pasta to desired doneness as directed on package.
2. Meanwhile, in large saucepan, melt margarine over medium heat. Stir
in flour, salt, pepper and nutmeg; cook until bubbly, shirring
constantly. Gradually add half-&-half, stirring constantly. Cook until
mixture boils and thickens, stirring frequently. Remove from heat.
Stir in cheeses until melted. Stir in wine.
3. Drain pasta. Add to cheese sauce; stir gently to coat. Pour into
sprayed dish. Optional: sprinkle with onions.
4. Bake at 350 for 20-25 minutes or until edges are bubbly and mixture
is thoroughly heated.

Id love to make this again because it tasted so good so thanks in
advance for ideas!

Anyone??

Valentine said:

Yesterday I tried a new recipe for white truffle mac and cheese. Im
going to paste the recipe here but wanted to get thoughts on what went
wrong.

Once cooked, it was like a white sauce that broke with the oil
separating from the cheese.
Could it have been- cooked too long or at too high temp?

Too high temp is my guess. Once the cheese goes in the temp needs to be
kept low. If it gets near boiling it will break and go all grainy on you.

Dawn

Dawn said:

Valentine said:

Yesterday I tried a new recipe for white truffle mac and cheese. Im
going to paste the recipe here but wanted to get thoughts on what went
wrong.

Quoted message said:

Once cooked, it was like a white sauce that broke with the oil
separating from the cheese.
Could it have been- cooked too long or at too high temp?

Too high temp is my guess. Once the cheese goes in the temp needs to be
kept low. If it gets near boiling it will break and go all grainy on you.

Dawn

Thanks Dawn,
Thats my thinking too- Im going to try again with a lower temp.

Valentine said:

Thanks Dawn,
Thats my thinking too- Im going to try again with a lower temp.

I keep checking the ng for follow-ups because I'm interested to know
why this happens, too.

Seems like the sauce has been worked too much, perhaps like overmixing
a mayonnaise?...

I thought there'd be more replies to this post.

Karen

Valentine said:

Yesterday I tried a new recipe for white truffle mac and cheese. Im
going to paste the recipe here but wanted to get thoughts on what went
wrong.

Once cooked, it was like a white sauce that broke with the oil
separating from the cheese.

Sprinkle some flour on the shredded cheese before adding it.
A thorough but light coating will do it.

--
Reg

"Valentine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yesterday I tried a new recipe for white truffle mac and cheese. Im
going to paste the recipe here but wanted to get thoughts on what went
wrong.

Once cooked, it was like a white sauce that broke with the oil
separating from the cheese.
Could it have been- cooked too long or at too high temp?
Could it have been the truffle oil?
I also added a bit more cheese than was called for when stirring the
cheese sauce but when I added it to the pasta it was very creamy. I
used really good cheeses so they would be a high quality. It tasted
WONDERFUL but looked not so nice.

Ideas?

8 oz (2 1/2 cups) uncooked mostaccioli or penne
2 tbsp margarine or butter
2 tbsp flour
1/4 tsp salt
1/8 tsp white pepper
Dash nutmeg
1 tsp white truffle oil
1 1/4 cups half-&-half
1/2 c shredded Fontina cheese
1/2 c shredded Gruyere cheese
1/2 c shredded aged White Cheddar cheese
2 tbsp dry white wine
2 tbsp sliced green onions

1. Heat over to 350. Spray 1 1/2 quart casserole with nonstick cooking
spray. Cook pasta to desired doneness as directed on package.
2. Meanwhile, in large saucepan, melt margarine over medium heat. Stir
in flour, salt, pepper and nutmeg; cook until bubbly, shirring
constantly. Gradually add half-&-half, stirring constantly. Cook until
mixture boils and thickens, stirring frequently. Remove from heat.
Stir in cheeses until melted. Stir in wine.
3. Drain pasta. Add to cheese sauce; stir gently to coat. Pour into
sprayed dish. Optional: sprinkle with onions.
4. Bake at 350 for 20-25 minutes or until edges are bubbly and mixture
is thoroughly heated.

Id love to make this again because it tasted so good so thanks in
advance for ideas!

Some possibilities besides the suggestion not to have the sauce too hot when
adding the cheese --

Pasta may be too wet and/or isn't absorbing liquid as it should while
baking. Cook it a minute or so short of al dente, and drain it very well
(stir it in the colander so that the cooking water can fall out of the
tubular pasta). Don't use oil in pasta cooking water, which could impede
absorption of the sauce.

Sauce may need a little more binding starch. Try adding a half to a whole
tablespoon of corn starch along with the flour.

Reg said:

Valentine said:

Yesterday I tried a new recipe for white truffle mac and cheese. Im
going to paste the recipe here but wanted to get thoughts on what went
wrong.

Once cooked, it was like a white sauce that broke with the oil
separating from the cheese.

Sprinkle some flour on the shredded cheese before adding it.
A thorough but light coating will do it.

Nooooooo, I don't think that is the solution.
I just think it was a particularly rich sauce with all those cheeses
and they released their oils. Perhaps too high temp. It happens at times
and yet hardly ruins the dish. Just make it again and see if baking at a
lower temp but for a bit longer makes a difference.
I'm curious if that small of an amount of truffle oil made any
noticeable difference in flavor?

Goomba38 said:

Reg said:

Valentine said:

Yesterday I tried a new recipe for white truffle mac and cheese. Im
going to paste the recipe here but wanted to get thoughts on what went
wrong.

Once cooked, it was like a white sauce that broke with the oil
separating from the cheese.

Sprinkle some flour on the shredded cheese before adding it.
A thorough but light coating will do it.

Nooooooo, I don't think that is the solution.

You haven't stated why. I can say with certainty that it's
effective.

Quoted message said:

I just think it was a particularly rich sauce with all those cheeses
and they released their oils. Perhaps too high temp. It happens at times
and yet hardly ruins the dish. Just make it again and see if baking at a
lower temp but for a bit longer makes a difference.

Yes, too high a temp can break a mornay sauce.

--
Reg

Reg said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sprinkle some flour on the shredded cheese before adding it.
A thorough but light coating will do it.

Nooooooo, I don't think that is the solution.

You haven't stated why. I can say with certainty that it's
effective.

I don't know if I know why? I just know that raw flour sprinkled about
does not make a sauce (such as people talk about doing to make
"scalloped potatoes" for example).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just think it was a particularly rich sauce with all those cheeses
and they released their oils. Perhaps too high temp. It happens at
times and yet hardly ruins the dish. Just make it again and see if
baking at a lower temp but for a bit longer makes a difference.

Yes, too high a temp can break a mornay sauce.

Perhaps the cheeses were too rich for the thin to medium white sauce the
recipe made? 2 T. butter, 2 T. flour and 1.5 cups of liquid is a fairly
thin sauce.

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 04:04:53 -0500, Goomba38 <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I don't know if I know why? I just know that raw flour sprinkled about
does not make a sauce (such as people talk about doing to make
"scalloped potatoes" for example).

It most certainly does when making mac and cheese. That's the only
way I'll make it. All the other ways are too flourly for me. I skip
making a sauce and just coat the shredded cheese with flour, dot with
the requisite amount of butter, fill the cooking vessel with milk and
bake.

--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smiley face first

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 21:30:01 -0800 (PST), Karen <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Valentine said:

Thanks Dawn,
Thats my thinking too- Im going to try again with a lower temp.

I keep checking the ng for follow-ups because I'm interested to know
why this happens, too.

Seems like the sauce has been worked too much, perhaps like overmixing
a mayonnaise?...

I thought there'd be more replies to this post.

Maybe xmas is coming and we want to stay on Santa's "Good List". LOL!
In any case, it's hard to tell what happened. It's one of those
dishes where you shouldn't have to be a slave to a recipe. My best
guess is the oil on top was the truffle oil. The recipe looks fine to
me, so the cook must have unknowingly screwed it up somehow. It
doesn't happen when I make mac & cheese (and I bake it at a fairly
high heat), so I had no suggestion other than to try it again or try a
different recipe.

I've remedied broken gravy and tomato sauces (which happens when it's
simmered too long) by adding more liquid. If it was a fondue, I'd add
more wine... but it was macaroni and cheese, so I dunno. Blot up the
oil and serve it.

--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smiley face first

sf wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 21:30:01 -0800 (PST), Karen <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Valentine said:

Thanks Dawn,
Thats my thinking too- Im going to try again with a lower temp.

I keep checking the ng for follow-ups because I'm interested to know
why this happens, too.

Seems like the sauce has been worked too much, perhaps like overmixing
a mayonnaise?...

I thought there'd be more replies to this post.

Maybe xmas is coming and we want to stay on Santa's "Good List". LOL!
In any case, it's hard to tell what happened. It's one of those
dishes where you shouldn't have to be a slave to a recipe. My best
guess is the oil on top was the truffle oil. The recipe looks fine to
me, so the cook must have unknowingly screwed it up somehow. It
doesn't happen when I make mac & cheese (and I bake it at a fairly
high heat), so I had no suggestion other than to try it again or try a
different recipe.

I've remedied broken gravy and tomato sauces (which happens when it's
simmered too long) by adding more liquid. If it was a fondue, I'd add
more wine... but it was macaroni and cheese, so I dunno. Blot up the
oil and serve it.

Notes on sauce making

There are standard ratios of flour, butter and liquid for making sauces.
Here is one version 1 tbsp of flour, 1 tbsp butter to 1 cup liquid

It is important that the butter and flour is cooked and stirred well to
remove the raw flour taste and to stop lumps by ensuring each flour
granule is well coated by the butter/oil before pouring in the liquid.

You should slowly pour in the liquid while stiring to combine the roux
(flour and butter mix). It is important that the milk/cream/stock is
reasonably slowly brought to a low boil to thicken the sauce. That is
don't just turn the heat to max and go pick your nose in the
corner...select medium high heat and stir it a fair bit. Once it has
thickened reduce temp to low and no more boiling is allowed....ever.

At this point you have a mother sauce and from here it is you create
the cheese sauce. Note no mention of salt, nutmeg or mustard has been
made...these are for your tastes and add what herbs and spices you like.

It is important that the cheese is added off the heat and never allowed
to boil to stop seperation, clumping general sauce failure and the end of
the world as we know it. The idea is for the residual heat of the sauce
to melt the cheese while you stir. Don't just dump in 15 pounds of
shredded cheese add it a little at a time (say a handfull) stirring till
it has melted and combined with the mother sauce before adding more.

Once you have reached cheese sauce...do not boil, just gently heat till
served or refridgerate for future use.

Homework...research white sauce, mother sauce, and roux. If you didn't
have google access you wouldn't be here

--

The house of the burning beet-Alan

It'll be a sunny day in August, when the Moon will shine that night-
Elbonian Folklore

Reg said:

Valentine said:

Yesterday I tried a new recipe for white truffle mac and cheese. Im
going to paste the recipe here but wanted to get thoughts on what went
wrong.

Once cooked, it was like a white sauce that broke with the oil
separating from the cheese.

Sprinkle some flour on the shredded cheese before adding it.
A thorough but light coating will do it.

But you're already adding it to a white sauce with lots of flour
in it. That might seem to work for a casserole based on shredded
cheese.

But I haven't tried it, so <shrug>

I asked this question a few months ago didn't get much help
either (Other than, "Here, search this site for tips".

=sw

"hahabogus" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Notes on sauce making

There are standard ratios of flour, butter and liquid for making sauces.
Here is one version 1 tbsp of flour, 1 tbsp butter to 1 cup liquid

Yes, I was taught the same proportion, but double the amoung--
so 2 tbsp of flour, 2 tbsp butter to 2 cup liquid.

Quoted message said:

It is important that the butter and flour is cooked and stirred well to
remove the raw flour taste and to stop lumps by ensuring each flour
granule is well coated by the butter/oil before pouring in the liquid.

For standard white sauce, the easy-to-remember instructions were
to sprinkle the flour in as soon as the butter begins to bubble, and
to cook it for 2 minutes. Starting out I actually set an egg timer,
and the sauce came out perfect every time!

Quoted message said:

You should slowly pour in the liquid while stiring to combine the roux
(flour and butter mix). It is important that the milk/cream/stock is
reasonably slowly brought to a low boil to thicken the sauce. That is
don't just turn the heat to max and go pick your nose in the
corner...select medium high heat and stir it a fair bit. Once it has
thickened reduce temp to low and no more boiling is allowed....ever.

Indeed. The method that always works for me is to slowly add the liquid
with the heat on "medium," stirring constantly, and when it boils turn it
lower
and keep stirring. I have never left the scene of the crime (<G>😉 until the
sauce
is the right thickness.

Quoted message said:

At this point you have a mother sauce and from here it is you create
the cheese sauce. Note no mention of salt, nutmeg or mustard has been
made...these are for your tastes and add what herbs and spices you like.

It is important that the cheese is added off the heat and never allowed
to boil to stop seperation, clumping general sauce failure and the end of
the world as we know it. The idea is for the residual heat of the sauce
to melt the cheese while you stir. Don't just dump in 15 pounds of
shredded cheese add it a little at a time (say a handfull) stirring till
it has melted and combined with the mother sauce before adding more.

Once you have reached cheese sauce...do not boil, just gently heat till
served or refridgerate for future use.

Homework...research white sauce, mother sauce, and roux. If you didn't
have google access you wouldn't be here

You just told him all he needs to know!

Reg said:

Sprinkle some flour on the shredded cheese before adding it.
A thorough but light coating will do it.

--
Reg

Hey Reg,

I followed the directions and incorporated flour and butter before
adding the cheeses. Are you suggesting I add more flour to the cheese
itself?

Goomba38 said:

Reg said:

Valentine wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yesterday I tried a new recipe for white truffle mac and cheese. Im
going to paste the recipe here but wanted to get thoughts on what went
wrong.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Once cooked, it was like a white sauce that broke with the oil
separating from the cheese.

Quoted message said:

Sprinkle some flour on the shredded cheese before adding it.
A thorough but light coating will do it.

Nooooooo, I don't think that is the solution.
I just think it was a particularly rich sauce with all those cheeses
and they released their oils. Perhaps too high temp. It happens at times
and yet hardly ruins the dish. Just make it again and see if baking at a
lower temp but for a bit longer makes a difference.
I'm curious if that small of an amount of truffle oil made any
noticeable difference in flavor?

Hi Goomba,
I could taste the truffle oil but my husband wanted a little more next
time.
Im going to try it again for dinner tomorrow night at a lower temp and
see.
Ive made mac and cheese with other cheeses before, starting with the
flour and butter the same and its never come out oily like that.
Still tasted yummy but I was disappointed. Thanks for the advice!

Quoted message said:

Homework...research white sauce, mother sauce, and roux. If you didn't
have google access you wouldn't be here

*sigh* thank you for the lovely yet patronizing response. Most people
here arent idiots and some of us have considerable experience and or
education. Of course I know the basics (and then some) of sauce making
and of course I added the cheese slowly after removing it from heat.
Ive made a zillion rouxs and white sauces and never had this happen.
Thats why Im puzzled. The sauce was CREAMY and smooth when I added it
to the macaroni. Creamy and smooth going into the oven. Oily when
coming out. I think the best guesses were from people who said it may
have cooked too long or at too high a temp- and then there's the
truffle oil factor.
Thanks to everyone who replied. Im making it again tomorrow and EVERY
DAMNED NIGHT until I get it right. Its going to drive me insane now.

Valentine said:

Quoted message said:

Homework...research white sauce, mother sauce, and roux. If you didn't
have google access you wouldn't be here

*sigh* thank you for the lovely yet patronizing response. Most people
here arent idiots and some of us have considerable experience and or
education. Of course I know the basics (and then some) of sauce making
and of course I added the cheese slowly after removing it from heat.
Ive made a zillion rouxs and white sauces and never had this happen.
Thats why Im puzzled. The sauce was CREAMY and smooth when I added it
to the macaroni. Creamy and smooth going into the oven. Oily when
coming out. I think the best guesses were from people who said it may
have cooked too long or at too high a temp- and then there's the
truffle oil factor.
Thanks to everyone who replied. Im making it again tomorrow and EVERY
DAMNED NIGHT until I get it right. Its going to drive me insane now.

good luck, and i hope you get it right. the roster of insane folks on
the group is already rather full.

your pal,
blake

blake murphy said:

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 15:44:27 -0800 (PST), Valentine

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Homework...research white sauce, mother sauce, and roux. If you didn't
have google access you wouldn't be here

Quoted message said:

*sigh* thank you for the lovely yet patronizing response. Most people
here arent idiots and some of us have considerable experience and or
education. Of course I know the basics (and then some) of sauce making
and of course I added the cheese slowly after removing it from heat.
Ive made a zillion rouxs and white sauces and never had this happen.
Thats why Im puzzled. The sauce was CREAMY and smooth when I added it
to the macaroni. Creamy and smooth going into the oven. Oily when
coming out. I think the best guesses were from people who said it may
have cooked too long or at too high a temp- and then there's the
truffle oil factor.
Thanks to everyone who replied. Im making it again tomorrow and EVERY
DAMNED NIGHT until I get it right. Its going to drive me insane now.

good luck, and i hope you get it right. the roster of insane folks on
the group is already rather full.

your pal,
blake

ALRIGHT!! Made the mac and cheese AGAIN tonight. Exact same steps-
same ingredients though I added a bit more truffle oil. This time, I
only heated it in the oven for 18 minutes on 300 degrees and it came
out PERFECT and CREAMY.
Consensus was, I cooked the original batch too long and it separated.
Thanks everyone!