UK and Europe · Public discussion

Red-light jumping

Started by Ian Smith · · Last activity · 17 posts · 1,791 views

This thread is locked and is currently read-only.

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
UK and Europe
Published
7 December 2003
Last activity
9 December 2003
Original author
Ian Smith
Posts
17
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
1,791
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–17 of 17
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Drove out from London this morning. Saw three people go straight through red lights. This is not
    just-snuck-through RAC-type 'doesn't matter if less than 3 seconds' type, this is right through the
    middle of teh phase. One of them was a pelican and a woman with push-chair was just reaching
    half-way across when the chap coming the other way blasted through the lights and straight across
    the crossing without even slowing.

    Only one of the three was riding a bicycle.

    Anyway, what I was wondering is, does this now qualify me to go over to uk.tosspot and post about
    how all motorists always go through red lights?

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|

  2. "Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Drove out from London this morning. Saw three people go straight through red lights. This is not
    just-snuck-through RAC-type 'doesn't matter if less than 3 seconds' type, this is right through
    the middle of teh phase. One of them was a pelican and a woman with push-chair was just reaching
    half-way across when the chap coming the other way blasted through the lights and straight across
    the crossing without even slowing.

    Only one of the three was riding a bicycle.

    Anyway, what I was wondering is, does this now qualify me to go over to uk.tosspot and post about
    how all motorists always go through red lights?

    From personal observation, in London at least, I'd say it's undisputable that a higher percentage of
    cyclists jump red lights than drivers, but there's plenty of drivers that do. More significantly
    perhaps, the nature is different - motorists are more likely to go through at speed 'just after'
    they've turned red - since they were accelerating to get to the lights before they did. Cyclists,
    OTOH are more likely to stop on the light but move off early after conflicting traffic has cleared
    the intersection - and however they do it, they go through much slower! Neither are saints but I
    know which I prefer...

    Rich

  3. "Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Drove out from London this morning. Saw three people go straight through red lights.

    Red light jumping by motor vehicles is endemic in Leicester. So much so I can't count them fast
    enough unlike the motorists who can count unlit bicycles they can't even see. BTW I'm posting this
    as a motorist more so than as a cyclist. (I rarely cycle in Leicester city but commute there by car
    every day).

    Pete

  4. Quoted message said:

    Drove out from London this morning. Saw three people go straight through red lights..........

    ............

    Quoted message said:

    Only one of the three was riding a bicycle.


    Interesting statistic there, 2 morotists, and 1 cyclist. There are far, far more motorists on the
    roads than cyclists, so your little survey clearly shows that a higher proportion of cyclists ignore
    red lights, than motorists do. Well done.

    Quoted message said:

    Anyway, what I was wondering is, does this now qualify me to go over to uk.tosspot and post about
    how all motorists always go through red lights?


    Not really, no.

  5. "SimonJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Interesting statistic there, 2 morotists, and 1 cyclist. There are far, far more motorists on the
    roads than cyclists, so your


    little

    Quoted message said:

    survey clearly shows that a higher proportion of cyclists ignore red


    lights,

    Quoted message said:

    than motorists do.

    Alternatively it shows that the danger per jump is higher for motorists, because there is lower
    incidence but most fatalities at junctions are caused by motorists.

    Alternatively the sample size is too small to show anything.

    Alternatively Ian has a sense of humour and you don't ;-)

    --
    Guy
    ===

    WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
    chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.uk

  6. you know? said:

    "SimonJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Interesting statistic there, 2 morotists, and 1 cyclist. There are far, far more motorists on the
    roads than cyclists, so your


    little

    Quoted message said:

    survey clearly shows that a higher proportion of cyclists ignore red


    lights,

    Quoted message said:

    than motorists do.

    Quoted message said:

    Alternatively it shows that the danger per jump is higher for motorists, because there is lower
    incidence but most fatalities at junctions are caused by motorists.

    Quoted message said:

    Alternatively the sample size is too small to show anything.

    Quoted message said:

    Alternatively Ian has a sense of humour and you don't ;-)

    Don't forget that any cyclist who arrives at a red light is in a position to jump it. Only the first
    motorist in line is.

    If 25% of the time one in four cyclists jumps a red light and the lead motorist goes through a red,
    that is the same proportion, even though a larger number of red lights will be jumped by cyclists.

    ..d

  7. small distinction b/n car and bike - when 1-ton car run red could hit pedestrian and pedestrian die.

  8. Ian Smith said:

    Anyway, what I was wondering is, does this now qualify me to go over to uk.tosspot and post about
    how all motorists always go through red lights?

    Not only that, but you can state without fear of contradiction, that /ALL/ motorists routinely
    exceed sixty miles per hour outside primary schools on wet days at chucking-out time while:

    o high on a "cocktail of drink and drugs" o untaxed o uninsured o un-MOT'd o on four bald tyres

    Or something.

    --

    Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.uk
    ===========================================================

  9. In article said:


    Don't forget that any cyclist who arrives at a red light is in a position to jump it. Only the
    first motorist in line is.

    Three motorists in a row considering the light "only just" red so not really counting isn't unusual
    round here.

  10. Quoted message said:

    small distinction b/n car and bike - when 1-ton car run red could hit pedestrian and
    pedestrian die.


    typical cyclist excuse for breaking the law.

  11. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by SimonJ
    > small distinction b/n car and bike - when 1-ton car run red could hit pedestrian and

    Quoted message said:

    pedestrian die.


    typical cyclist excuse for breaking the law.

    well, what do you expect - all cyclists are law breaking anarchists. now get lost and move on to some other forum

  12. SimonJ said:


    Quoted message said:

    Drove out from London this morning. Saw three people go straight through red lights..........

    ............

    Quoted message said:

    Only one of the three was riding a bicycle.


    Interesting statistic there, 2 morotists, and 1 cyclist. There are far, far more motorists on the
    roads than cyclists, so your little survey clearly shows that a higher proportion of cyclists
    ignore red lights, than motorists do.

    Maybe it shows that infinitely more motorists go through red lights with a risk of hitting
    mother & child?

    Maybe it shows the sample size was so small as to be useless?

    Maybe it wasn't supposed to say anythiung at all about those that go through red lights, but rather
    about those that make statements about those that go through red lights? Hmm, I wonder if that could
    be the case?

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|

  13. Quoted message said:

    get lost and move on to some other forum


    But I'm having such fun here

  14. "waffle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    well, what do you expect - all cyclists are law breaking anarchists. now get lost and move on to
    some other forum

    Sad to report that on my 2 mile ride home last night (at about 10 pm) I saw only one cyclist cycling
    legally and 5 or 6 unlit pavement cyclists.

    This is unusual -- normally I would estimate a slight majority of legals over illegals.

    T

  15. Reply to waffle

    Quoted message said:

    well, what do you expect - all cyclists are law breaking anarchists. now get lost and move on to
    some other forum

    Is he still at it? I k/filed him a while ago; after all, anyone who still gets excited at the idea
    that a group of road users might contain lawbreakers can't be over-bright, surely? ;-)
    --
    Mark, UK. If you give me six lines written by the most honest man, I will find something in them to
    hang him. - Richelieu

  16. Tony W scribed with passion and wit:

    Quoted message said:


    "waffle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    well, what do you expect - all cyclists are law breaking anarchists. now get lost and move on to
    some other forum

    Sad to report that on my 2 mile ride home last night (at about 10 pm) I saw only one cyclist
    cycling legally and 5 or 6 unlit pavement cyclists.

    This is unusual -- normally I would estimate a slight majority of legals over illegals.

    T


    Sadly round here I expect the ratio to give majority to illegal riders.

    --
    Ian

    catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.uk

  17. The real problem is that, as ever, far more fuss is made over a few cyclists risking only their own
    necks then drivers who kill innocent third parties. It seems not even the courts feel that a
    motorist who kills due to going through a red light has committed much of an offence. See

    news.bbc.co.uk3290665.stm

    (£500 fine for a driver who went over a pedestrian crossing against a red light, so killing
    a cyclist).

    In any cse, who is posing the greatest danger? A driver gouing through a few seconds after a light
    has gone red, so potentially colliding with all those setting off on amber as part of the 'Traffic
    Light Grand Prix', or a cyclist going through red on an empty junction, so enabling themselves to
    avoid being caught up in the aforesaid race away from the lights? It would also be nice if all
    traffic lights actually detected that a cyclist was waiting -I know of plenty that don't! (Not that
    I condone jumping red lights by anyone).

    Ultimately, this sort of argument centres about what constitutes 'the rules of the road'. Lets not
    kid ourselves that the 'real' rules of the road have much to do with the law. What is the case is
    that 'the rules' are totally car centred and motorists expect other road users to abide by 'their'
    rules even when these rules are in contravention of traffic law. Examples,

    'One may exceed the legal speed limit, one is also justified in complaining and claiming ones 'human
    rights' are being violated if one gets caught doing so.'

    'A red light is not red until at least 3 cars have gone through it'.

    'Going though an empty junction against a red light IS against the rules.'

    'As drivers cannot be bothered to take adequate observations, cyclists must all dress like something
    from outer space.'

    'It IS against the rules for a cyclist to cross over a stop line in order to be first away from the
    lights so as to avoid being caught up in 'The Traffic Light Grand Prix' or being cut up by drivers
    turning left'.

    'It is NOT against the rules for taxis, BMW owners and motorcylists to pass a stop line, as long as
    this stop line marks out a cyclist advanced stop line waiting area.'

    'It IS within the rules to overtake a cyclists by inches, regardless of the illustration shown in
    the 'Highway Code' and the advice to leave a cyclist as much room as a car.'

    'It is AGAINST the rules for a cyclist to cause a driver to need to slow down for even a couple of
    seconds, as when meeting a cyclist on a narrow country road.'

    'It is NOT, however, against the rules for a driver to impede the passage of a cyclist. For example,
    by deliberately stopping thier vehicle when in a traffic queue so there is insufficient space for a
    cyclist to pass. (Creating such an obstruction is still 'legally' an offence under legislation laid
    down under the 1835 Highways Act).

    etc.

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.