Hills and stuff

cox said:

The following links are links to the elevation maps for my weekly workouts.

Can somebody have a look at them and tell me about using these as Marathon training runs? Should I
look for something flatter for my long runs? How much am I risking injury by running these
somewhat rolling courses? Are these rolling... or am I just a wimp?

I am looking for guidence.. I don't talk to a lot of other runners... so I am forced to put up
with the abuse from this group 🙂

(4.7 miles) saddleback.edu4mileelevation.gifOpen ↗
(5.8 miles) saddleback.edu5.8mile%20elevation.gifOpen ↗
(7.2 miles) saddleback.edu7.2mileelevation.gifOpen ↗
(8.2 miles) saddleback.edu8.2%20elevation%20map.gifOpen ↗

You're just fine. Enjoy the hills. I do a bunch of 10-15 mile runs that incorporate miles 19 -
24 or so of the Boston marathon course, and it has a similar elevation profile to that which
you're describing. (This is, however, my "hilly" run, but in Boston, you have to work to get the
hills in. ;-)

csurun.orgBAA hills.gifOpen ↗ csurun.orgBAA 21 finish.gifOpen ↗

The ~200 or so feet that the maps seem to show isn't a really extreme elevation gain. But it's
enough that the downhills will pound you a bit - I stick to the soft grass in the median during
the downhills on my hilly runs.

If it's an easy long run, take it easy on the uphills, particularly at the start. For some
speedwork / intervals, you might want a flatter course, mostly to make it easier to judge pace.
And variation is good - some days flat, some days hilly. But I think it's a good thing to have
some gently rolling hills as a regular part of your running. Just don't let them force you into a
level of effort you didn't intend.

Btw - I'm assuming you're posting those things in feet, since you're measuring the length in
miles. If you're talking meters, I'd call it a very hilly workout. One of my favorite runs in Salt
Lake goes from about 4500 - 5000 feet, and it definitely reminds me that I live at sea level and
never run real hills.

-Dave

--
work: dga - at - lcs.mit.edu me: angio - at - pobox.com MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
angio.netangio.netOpen ↗ (note that my reply-to address is vaguely despammed...) bulk emailers: I do
not accept unsolicited email. Do not mail me.

"cox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<iURAb.89093$yJ.83718@okepread02>...

Quoted message said:

The following links are links to the elevation maps for my weekly workouts.

Can somebody have a look at them and tell me about using these as Marathon training runs? Should I
look for something flatter for my long runs? How much am I risking injury by running these
somewhat rolling courses? Are these rolling... or am I just a wimp?

I am looking for guidence.. I don't talk to a lot of other runners... so I am forced to put up
with the abuse from this group 🙂

(4.7 miles) saddleback.edu4mileelevation.gifOpen ↗
(5.8 miles) saddleback.edu5.8mile%20elevation.gifOpen ↗
(7.2 miles) saddleback.edu7.2mileelevation.gifOpen ↗
(8.2 miles) saddleback.edu8.2%20elevation%20map.gifOpen ↗

They seem fine to me. Hills will help to build endurance and resistance to pain. On the shorter
route you could incorporate some speed work (I have a similar hilly loop and I push on when I get to
the bottom of a hill and recover on the flat or downhill sections). My standard 22 mile loop is
extremely undulating.

Edward
--
The reading group's reading group: bookgroup.org.ukbookgroup.org.ukOpen ↗

cox said:

The following links are links to the elevation maps for my weekly workouts.

Can somebody have a look at them and tell me

...that you need to get a life.

Dave Andersen said:

You're just fine. Enjoy the hills.

I'd just add that I think one of his goal marathons is Big Sur, which I think has a hill about 500
ft between miles 10 and 12 plus some others, so he may want to try to have a hill at least that big
- if not on a regular long run, then on a "hill" day or a long run close to race day - doing the
hill after he's 10-miles worth of tired 😉 His 8.2 mile profile looks like it has something close to
that elev gain (between minutes - at least I'm assuming that's what the units are - 43 and 75,
approximately). I think his other 2 marathons (LA, Rock n Roll, I think) are relatively flat.

A key is to listen to one's body to see if one is hitting the hills too hard. If so, back off a
little - either frequency, height, slope, whatever.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

wow.... People really remember stuff around here...

Yeah, those are the three marathons... LA, Big Sur, and R&R San Diego.

I stopped posting this goal because I get a lot of flack from the more experienced people saying how
crazy that is. We'll see. If I can't do it... I won't do it. If I can... well... we'll just see.
After LA, who knows... I may hate marathoning all together and take up something else like TV
watching, or curling... or something.

But as for now... we are up to a 13 mile long run... sore, but loving it 🙂

Thanks for all the advice.

"Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave Andersen said:

You're just fine. Enjoy the hills.

I'd just add that I think one of his goal marathons is Big Sur, which I think has a hill about
500 ft between miles 10 and 12 plus some others, so he may want to try to have a hill at least
that big - if not on a regular long run, then on a "hill" day or a long run close to race day -
doing the hill after he's 10-miles worth of tired 😉 His 8.2 mile profile looks like it has
something close to that elev gain (between minutes - at least I'm assuming that's what the units
are - 43 and 75, approximately). I think his other 2 marathons (LA, Rock n Roll, I think) are
relatively flat.

A key is to listen to one's body to see if one is hitting the hills too hard. If so, back off a
little - either frequency, height, slope,

whatever.

Quoted message said:

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

cox said:

The following links are links to the elevation maps for my weekly workouts.

Can somebody have a look at them and tell me about using these as Marathon training runs?

Hills are always appropriate assuming you have a sufficient base and they don't take you down the
injury path. I general you want to at least prepare for the marathon you plan to run. If you plan to
do Pike's Peak you'll likely to have a real problem.

Quoted message said:

Should I look for something flatter for my long runs? How much am I risking injury by running
these somewhat rolling

courses?

Quoted message said:

Are these rolling... or am I just a wimp?

Your body will let you know. If your runs are every two weeks or more then you have time to recover
as long as you are not abusing yourself the rest of the week. If you feel too drained for too many
days after then that are too much. You can always alternate hills with flatter long runs.

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]

Chemistry that comes naturally. How do electromical reactions resemble the reactions that occure
dureing cellular respiration and photosynthesis? Say at night time{ here were I live in Michigan
about 100 miles west of port heron ...bottum of lake huron.... earth is flying thru space from south
west to north east. Why night because . dec 8 2003 today and friday the 13th is this week. I assume
U run in day time.} Meteor shower this week end friday being the 13th. Dec moon now then darker sky
and then Bam rocks hit our planet. or meteor shower...... why the 13th.These rocks. and ozone layer.
Now to the question ........ to photosynthesis.?/ Fermentation occurs in the absence of oxygen.
Latic acid by adding electrons to glycolysis. example: if U lift a weight up and down a 100 times
rapidly your muscel cells used up all the availble oxygen. you get tire....... Your tired and now
you muscels only have the ATP made by glycolysis for further energy needs. later latic asid makes
them feel sore. However if oxygen comes available, latic asid is converted back to pyruvate then can
enter oxidation respeiation. fungi and plants have a different pathway for fermentations. { well
repost other soon" or not.

Many fuels are used for cellular respiration............. Thus far only glucone has been discussed
as a fuel for cellular respiration. the glucose for cellular resperation is obtained by eatting
carbohydrates such as starch and sugar. butt if there is not enought carbohydrates in an organism's
diet to supply it's energy needs, other molecules must be oxidized to obtain enegy, the long carbon
chan of fatty asids have many hydogen atoms, and thus fats provide a rich harvest of energy. in fact
humans obtain more energy from fats then they do from glucose.(a gram of fat contains more then
twice the enegy of a gram of glucose) Althrought their subunits are normally used for building
important cell componets, proteins and nucleic acids also can be oxidized by cellular resiration to
make atp. more to follow or not. in the 2nd stage of chemical. Light energy is converted int chemial
energy 2nd stage of photosynthesis. light absorbed into photosystems. the 2 photosystems work in
partnership one passing the electrons to the other like runners passing a baton in a relay race. 2
understand the two photosystems work together is to follow the baton_ an electron. in a sence ,
photosystem 2 clusters are the first to act dureing the light reaction. the absorption of light by
photosystem 2 pigments intitates a seies of events that results in the production of atp. first ,
photons of light striking a chioroplast are absorbed by photosystem 2 pigment moloculs. causing
electrons from the reaction center's chiorophyll molecules and jumps to a nearby membrance protein
then like the baton in a relay race , each excited electon is passed throught a series of
membrance-bound protein and pigment molecules called an elctron transport chain. some of the energy
is used to power atp. production. eventually their energy is accepted by photosytem 1 cluster. more
to follow or not

Action of photosystem 1...................... The point of photosynthesis, however is not simplly to
make atp. Rather, it is to extact carbon atoms from carbon dioxide. and used them to make new
organic molecules, such as sugar,lipids,proteins,and nucleic. Got o go by later. or not. time under
rock is well need. self batt is chargeing soon to be full again. Imsofingrtodded

carben dioxide + water------>carbonic anhydrase---> carbonic acid. 1 way enzymes lower activation
energy is by weakening chemical bonds. so they wll breake more easily. amylase speeds breake down of
starch into glucose by weekening the bonds linking glucse subunits enzymes also bring molucuse
together in a certain order. by serving as templates (paturns)( this is how starch synthetase works.
enzymes catalyze chemical reactions in cells. or maybe the hill links can be be put a example by
others as Starting chemical reactions required energys... Reaction progress to free energy. 1 foot
go in front of other. The flow of energy. Oxidation C6H12)6+60 two ----->6cotwo+6Htwo 0 reduction

Critical thinking. makeing inferences.for every 100 units of energy availably from alfalfa, cattle
that eat alfalfa captures only 10 units 0f that energy, and humands that eat the cattle as hamburger
captures only 1 unit of that energy, how do you acount for this inefficent transfer of energy?
interpreting data. Reaction 1 reaction 2 enegy leval progress of reations. w+y and grafe is high
then low. reaction 2 w+y energy leval is high then only half down. the figure below depicts a
metabolic pathway. predicts how a high concentratin of substance c would effect the activity of
enzyme 1 if the shape of enzyme 1 is change when it binds with substance c.
.................SubtractA---->enzyme 1 Subtract B---> enzyme 2 Subtrac C seems to me enzymes 2
would have a longer energy leval to say do a half in insane terane then a mere 8 mile treck. my
opinion only. Flat runnng. I ride a bike.

I got to go, I am being attack here on homefront by ahhhhhh People who got to tell mom what I am
doing. or not..

scody said:

wow.... People really remember stuff around here...

I cheated and looked 😉 My original post started out asking what your goals were - Pikes Peak or
something like Chicago. Then I thought to look back.

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Finally read "Racing the Antelope". Thanks for the reminder. Quite enjoyable

Can't help but wonder if ultraruns on pavement make sense for anyone. But especially with a once
injured back and knee.

Part of me would have liked to see a more systematic and thorough development of training based on
the lessons of animal physiology. Though even the loosest connections have tremendous artistic and
speculative interest.

"Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Bill said:

Finally read "Racing the Antelope". Thanks for the reminder. Quite enjoyable

Can't help but wonder if ultraruns on pavement make sense for anyone. But especially with a once
injured back and knee.

I can't speak for anyone but me but I think ultra runs on pavement is really asking for trouble. Why
would anyone want to run for hours on pavement when there are miles of trails.

Quoted message said:

Part of me would have liked to see a more systematic and thorough development of training based
on the lessons of animal physiology.

My initial reaction, what's make us think we fit the model such that it makes sense. This reminds me
of testing drugs on rats or monkeys to find it doesn't hold for people.

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]

Doug Freese said:

Bill said:

Part of me would have liked to see a more systematic and thorough development of training based
on the lessons of animal physiology.

My initial reaction, what's make us think we fit the model such that it makes sense. This reminds
me of testing drugs on rats or monkeys to find it doesn't hold for people.

I can't remember whether you've read "Racing the Antelope" or not, but the result for the author
was a World Record in 100k (and might still be masters - can't remember details), which isn't
too shabby 🙂

Heinrich is an ultrarunner and professional zoologist and a real author (usually natural history for
layman). Each chapter in his book goes through some system that one needs to train (hydration,
locomotion, endurance, etc) and picks on some animal that is known for that ability, then analyzes
how they do it and tries to adapt that to his training. There's stuff on 2- vs many-footed
locomotion, bird migration (really long haul with no aid stations), etc. He spent a lot of time
running in the woods - Maine, I believe, or somewhere in New England. I found it very enjoyable, as
you might imagine, because of the relatively detailed description of environments - including plant
species - that really brought the scenes to life.

What I think Bill is referring to is that the information is treated in an almost anecdotal way,
although I believe there were primary citations, iirc. (something more detailed than RW but not at
RRN level) While the reader gets bits and pieces of things, I don't remember there being any
detailed training plan mentioned. Or maybe Bill's making a more global statement about more training
being developed this way.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope