Mountain Bikes · Public discussion

why MTB'ing should not be an environmental target

Started by N Grover · · Last activity · 28 posts · 1,598 views

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Mountain Bikes
Published
6 December 2003
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16 December 2003
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N Grover
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  1. hmmmm, i appreciate environmental issues.....the world is indeed in grave danger.

    Would you conclude that mountain biking should be banned all together? I don't think you have done a
    fair evaluation of mountain biking and here is why:

    1) Mountain biking itself is not the main contributor to environmental damage, reckless rider are.
    2) Responsible riders will ride on pre-existing trials, such as horse trails, cross-country ski
    trails etc. I personally don't ever get on my bike and simply plow into the bush and blaze new
    trails and I don't think many of us do.
    3) To have a swimming pool you have to create a special purpose building which consumes enormous
    amounts of energy to heat, chemicals to treat the water etc, transportation to get to the pool
    every day. Or running events that require a track that replaces natural areas...and the list goes
    on. The great thing about mountain biking is that it gives us an oportunity to enjoy the
    intrinsic value of nature which is important for without the enjoyment of wilderness there is one
    less motivation to want to protect it. One of the ways to teach childrean about the value of
    nature is to show it to them so they can appreciate it's beauty. With my MTB I usually don't have
    to drive anywhere and I don't need a special facility (resource hog) to do it.
    4) With all the highways, urban development, polution etc you pick on MTB'ing. Ok so just because
    there are other bad things in this world doesn't make something else bad OK but it perplexes me
    why you would single out MTB'ing among all other sports, including those that don't allow us to
    enjoy wilderness (undeniably important) and require special facilities all over the world (bad
    for the environment) such as hockey rinks (major CFC emissions).
    5) The world may not have as much forest as Canada but don't tell me we don't have room for mountain
    biking. Personally I consider it far more important to use less paper and choose to live in the
    city instead of sprawling into newly developed areas.

    I suppose my point is....yes at some level and because of some radical people, MTB'ing will hurt the
    environment but please don't use it as an example sport which overshadows far greater concerns. As
    you pointed out, the Olympics itself is one big environmental problem with people flying in from all
    over the world, facilities being built, etc. In the end I don't think it will do the world any good
    to be in their basement running on treadmills made from recycled egg shells. MTB'ing has a place in
    the olympics and in my opinion (all things considered) does not harm the environment any more than
    the average sport. May I also point out that the sport of MTB'ing has promoted environmental
    stewardardship more than any indoor sport.

    -- Neil Grover

  2. N Grover said:

    hmmmm, i appreciate environmental issues.....the world is indeed in grave danger.

    Mike Vandeman is not going to help the environment any more than you're going to help Mike Vandeman.
    Ignore him, he's a meaningless blowhard.

    --
    -BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

  3. and finally in response to Mike saying "you have a bike addiction, get over it", I have one thing to
    say to you Mike, Bob was just a cat...get over it!! Get my point!

  4. good point, i didn't realize Mike Vandeman had posted so much rubish.

    He critisized someone for having a bike addiction.....what a compasionless soul....he will get no
    where unless he realizes the needs of those whom he lives with in this delicate world, I am sure he
    has convinced nobody on this cycling forum by attacking them. If only someone could take away his
    addiction for attacking MTB'ing with little background research or indepth assesment. Ya know, I
    took an environmental science course at University and I gotta say what loose and un-defined
    field...rarely used as science it's as much a degree on opinion because in this world we all affect
    the environment negatively on a regular basis, including Mike. Mike, have you heard of the term
    "sustainable development"? It's a concept that realizes the needs of humans as well as the
    environment, i suggest you adopt a similar philosophy before you beat your head into the ground and
    realize that mountain biking will continue regardless of what you say. Maybe instead you could make
    a positive impact by trying to get you local government to designate MTB'ing areas, or fix wrecked
    trails etc. In the mean-time, stop using your PHD status to point fingers and use your science
    skills for something more applicatble...like bioremdiation or something. I'll end now by saying you
    have sparked an emotion in me that negativly impacts your cause.......keep it up! Sorry for
    partaking in your sharade....at this point it feels good.

    BB said:
    N Grover said:

    hmmmm, i appreciate environmental issues.....the world is indeed in grave danger.

    Mike Vandeman is not going to help the environment any more than you're going to help Mike
    Vandeman. Ignore him, he's a meaningless blowhard.

  5. "N Grover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Sorry for partaking in your sharade....at this point it feels good.

    So does maturbating, but it's not something you do in public!
    --
    Slacker

  6. "N Grover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    hmmmm, i appreciate environmental issues.....the world is indeed in grave danger.

    Would you conclude that mountain biking should be banned all together? I don't think you have done
    a fair evaluation of mountain biking and here is why:

    1) Mountain biking itself is not the main contributor to environmental damage, reckless rider are.
    2) Responsible riders will ride on pre-existing trials, such as horse trails, cross-country ski
    trails etc. I personally don't ever get on my bike and simply plow into the bush and blaze new
    trails and I don't think many of us do.
    3) To have a swimming pool you have to create a special purpose building which consumes enormous
    amounts of energy to heat, chemicals to treat the water etc, transportation to get to the pool
    every day. Or running events that require a track that replaces natural areas...and the list
    goes on. The great thing about mountain biking is that it gives us an oportunity to enjoy the
    intrinsic value of nature which is important for without the enjoyment of wilderness there is
    one less motivation to want to protect it. One of the ways to teach childrean about the value
    of nature is to show it to them so they can appreciate it's beauty. With my MTB I usually don't
    have to drive anywhere and I don't need a special facility (resource hog) to do it.
    4) With all the highways, urban development, polution etc you pick on MTB'ing. Ok so just because
    there are other bad things in this world doesn't make something else bad OK but it perplexes me
    why you would single out MTB'ing among all other sports, including those that don't allow us to
    enjoy wilderness (undeniably important) and require special facilities all over the world (bad
    for the environment) such as hockey rinks (major CFC emissions).
    5) The world may not have as much forest as Canada but don't tell me we don't have room for
    mountain biking. Personally I consider it far more important to use less paper and choose to
    live in the city instead of sprawling into newly developed areas.

    I suppose my point is....yes at some level and because of some radical people, MTB'ing will hurt
    the environment but please don't use it as an example sport which overshadows far greater
    concerns. As you pointed out, the Olympics itself is one big environmental problem with people
    flying in from all over the world, facilities being built, etc. In the end I don't think it will
    do the world any good to be in their basement running on treadmills made from recycled egg shells.
    MTB'ing has a place in the olympics and in my opinion (all things considered) does not harm the
    environment any more than the average sport. May I also point out that the sport of MTB'ing has
    promoted environmental stewardardship more than any indoor sport.

    -- Neil Grover

    Neil,

    Something you should know is that Mike Vandeman is actually a cartoon character. He was dropped
    after a brief career with Hanna Barbera in the 70's. His brush with stardom, and subsequent and very
    unfortunate crash into to depths of the worst type of animated destituion, have left him bitter
    toward the human race. His posts on this NG ooze a deep rooted contempt of all things human,
    especially anything to do with humans having fun and staying fit.

    But the comical genius that once propelled him briefly to the heights of stardom still often shines
    through in his posts as well! The brilliant use of irony is one example. While millions of
    automobiles and countless thousands of power plants are belching tons of debris into the air every
    day, he voraciously attacks moutain bikers for breaking twigs and displacing a family of squirrels
    somewhere in southern Missouri. Brilliant! Countless other examples of irony and other side
    splitting, zany rants are posted to this NG nearly daily. Check it out for yourself! Hours of
    amusement, free of charge.

    :^)

  7. Slacker, you might want to expand on the obvious if you have a point to make.

    Slacker said:

    "N Grover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Sorry for partaking in your sharade....at this point it feels good.

    So does maturbating, but it's not something you do in public!
    --
    Slacker

  8. Come on get off it. You ever get eatten up by a hole left by a 4 wheel drive truck or jeep. Now
    thats environmental damage. Then wait till spring after all te snow and ice are gone now, you got
    small water filled swiming holes in the middle of the trail. Or what hap- pened just a week ago. Due
    to these moon craters ,murders that drove a car into the woods with a body in the tunk couldn't go
    deep- er in because of this damage. And the car was spotted a flame soon after from the local Target
    store parking area. Or what about the new trail head made by some Monster truck. So they enter from
    I 95. I spotted that in early spring or was it late winter.

    Fire up MTB 03

  9. N Grover said:

    If only someone could take away his addiction for attacking MTB'ing with little background research
    or indepth assesment. Ya know, I took an environmental science course at University

    So did I, but it counts for nothing when you're 'debating' with Mike.
    j-harris.netambfaq.htm

  10. On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 16:19:02 -0800, "Slacker" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    ."N Grover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    ."]news:[email hidden]... .> .> Sorry for partaking in your
    sharade....at this point it feels good. . . .So does maturbating, but it's not something you do
    in public!

    Good point.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    home.pacbell.netmjvande

  11. On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 11:25:54 +0100, bomba <[email hidden]> wrote:

    .N Grover wrote: . .>If only someone could take away his .> addiction for attacking MTB'ing with
    little background research or indepth .> assesment. Ya know, I took an environmental science course
    at University . .So did I, but it counts for nothing when you're 'debating' with Mike.

    Especially since you didn't understand a bit of it.

    .j-harris.netambfaq.htm

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    home.pacbell.netmjvande

  12. N Grover murmured while asleep:

    Quoted message said:

    Slacker, you might want to expand on the obvious if you have a point to make.

    Slacker said:

    "N Grover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Sorry for partaking in your sharade....at this point it feels good.

    So does maturbating, but it's not something you do in public!
    --
    Slacker

    He did have a point... have you read the amb faq yet?

    bombacommand.iwarp.comambfaq.htm

  13. "N Grover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Slacker, you might want to expand on the obvious if you have a point to make.

    Slacker said:

    "N Grover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Sorry for partaking in your sharade....at this point it feels good.

    So does maturbating, but it's not something you do in public!
    --
    Slacker

    Do a Google search in Usenet on the vandyman. Slacker's point has more than one meaning.

    JD

  14. Quoted message said:

    He did have a point... have you read the amb faq yet?

    well thanks Penny, that was a little more helpful. So I won't masturbate and Mike is a known
    wing-nut and should be ignored because his usual response will be something to the tune of "B.S"
    (highly appropriate for mr PHD)......got it.

    scarry thing is, he was almost my proffessor! i was offered a rowing scholarship at Berkeley where
    he taught computer science. I turned it down because I got married and finished my comp-sci degree
    here in Canada. At the time i had just finished being on the canadian mtb team for seven
    year.........there would have been some serious friction in his class and based on his weak
    rationale i'm sure he would have failed me simply for having another opinion.

  15. Penny S said:

    bombacommand.iwarp.comambfaq.htm

    Time to update your links Penny. That incarnation of the FAQ is so old it's been on two different
    servers since then. The current version is here: j-harris.netambfaq.htm

  16. Quoted message said:

    Half a truth is better than none at all. 🙂


    actually no, a half truth is not better...how did you ever get through school? here is the
    dictionary definition of a half truth and if you think it's "better" than anything all then it helps
    explain your attitude and why it does more harm than good.

    half truth: "a statement that mingles truth and falsehood with deliberate intent to deceive"

    m-w.comdictionary

    ....I give you an "argument" and you counter with "BS"...good job, thats effective. Your attitude
    has definately made a positive impact here on the news group, why don't you try and explain to us
    all how it is that you have accomplished anything good by getting MTB'ers to disslike you. And no,
    they don't disslike you becaues you are right, they disslike you because like me they came on this
    forum only to see insulting posts. Racism happens because of blanket statments such as "Another
    typical mountain biker demonstrates their utter ignorance and inability to reason". Sterotypes such
    as these are what makes this world a difficult place to live. This is also why environmentalists are
    often seen as radical idiots which only hinders their cause. Such radical inconsistencies in your
    life must be hard to balance in you head, you would almost have to be schizophrenic. If this world
    goes down in flames is as much a result of me as it is you.

  17. Mike Vandeman said:

    .>If only someone could take away his .> addiction for attacking MTB'ing with little background
    research or indepth .> assesment. Ya know, I took an environmental science course at University .
    .So did I, but it counts for nothing when you're 'debating' with Mike.

    Especially since you didn't understand a bit of it.

    I would have got a first, but failed the section on the impacts of mountain biking. Apparently, I
    failed to mention the persistent lying of cyclists. Natch.

  18. On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 22:11:53 +0100, bomba <[email hidden]> wrote:

    .Mike Vandeman wrote: . .> .>If only someone could take away his .> .> addiction for attacking
    MTB'ing with little background research or indepth .> .> assesment. Ya know, I took an environmental
    science course at University .> . .> .So did I, but it counts for nothing when you're 'debating'
    with Mike. .> .> Especially since you didn't understand a bit of it. . .I would have got a first,
    but failed the section on the impacts of .mountain biking. Apparently, I failed to mention the
    persistent lying .of cyclists. Natch.

    Yes, that is a fatal flaw.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    home.pacbell.netmjvande

  19. "N Grover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message If this world goes down in flames

    Quoted message said:

    is as much a result of me as it is you.

    How is saving MJV's soul going Neil?

    Yet more persuasive arguments, he's sure to crack any minute now!

    Chris

  20. "ctg" <n/a@n/a.com> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "N Grover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message If this world goes down in flames

    Quoted message said:

    is as much a result of me as it is you.

    How is saving MJV's soul going Neil?

    He's still blind to the uselessness of arguing with that psycho. How does it feel to be retarded
    Neil? Is your last name Strickland? If you are a mountain biker, just shut the hell up and ride.

    JD

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