slow breast stroke--how to fix?

Pat said:

There I was, swimming my breast stroke when a woman recovering from a car
accident passed me. The next day, I saw another woman swimming it
differently. The first woman spent a lot of time underwater with long,
powerful pulls. The second woman bobbed up and down like a fishing bobber.
She bobbed so high that her entire armpits came out of the water ( I was
going to say something else, but this seemed nicer).

Which is the proper way? Should I concentrate on spending more time
submerged and only come up to breathe? Or should I concentrate on more and
faster turnover of the stroke?

Generally speaking, taller people with longer arms have the longer pulls
and glides. Shorter people have the higher turnovers. Thinner people
with long legs and big feet usually have a good kick so they tend to
glide more. Big people tend to have stronger pulls so they bob more with
an increased turnover.

Pat said:

There I was, swimming my breast stroke when a woman recovering from a car
accident passed me. The next day, I saw another woman swimming it
differently. The first woman spent a lot of time underwater with long,
powerful pulls. The second woman bobbed up and down like a fishing bobber.
She bobbed so high that her entire armpits came out of the water ( I was
going to say something else, but this seemed nicer).

Which is the proper way? Should I concentrate on spending more time
submerged and only come up to breathe? Or should I concentrate on more and
faster turnover of the stroke?

Generally speaking, taller people with longer arms have the longer pulls
and glides. Shorter people have the higher turnovers. Thinner people
with long legs and big feet usually have a good kick so they tend to
glide more. Big people tend to have stronger pulls so they bob more with
an increased turnover.

Pat said:

There I was, swimming my breast stroke when a woman recovering from a car
accident passed me. The next day, I saw another woman swimming it
differently. The first woman spent a lot of time underwater with long,
powerful pulls. The second woman bobbed up and down like a fishing bobber.
She bobbed so high that her entire armpits came out of the water ( I was
going to say something else, but this seemed nicer).

Which is the proper way? Should I concentrate on spending more time
submerged and only come up to breathe? Or should I concentrate on more and
faster turnover of the stroke?

Generally speaking, taller people with longer arms have the longer pulls
and glides. Shorter people have the higher turnovers. Thinner people
with long legs and big feet usually have a good kick so they tend to
glide more. Big people tend to have stronger pulls so they bob more with
an increased turnover.

Pat said:

There I was, swimming my breast stroke when a woman recovering from a car
accident passed me. The next day, I saw another woman swimming it
differently. The first woman spent a lot of time underwater with long,
powerful pulls. The second woman bobbed up and down like a fishing bobber.
She bobbed so high that her entire armpits came out of the water ( I was
going to say something else, but this seemed nicer).

Which is the proper way? Should I concentrate on spending more time
submerged and only come up to breathe? Or should I concentrate on more and
faster turnover of the stroke?

Pat in TX

No advice you can (or will) get on usenet is likely to be useful for
breaststroke swimming. The spcific combination of stroke characteristics
that are right for you depend on many variables, and can result in a great
variety of stroke styles, each most suited to a particular combination of
swimmer and swim. A point that shows this simply is the paucity of
double-gold medalists in breaststroke at the Olympics, compared to the
other disciplines (Heyns was the first - though Hencken did win the 200 in
'72 and the 100 in '76).

For help you definitely need someone with knowledge to actually see what
you are doing, at the minimum; and better would to have that someone do a
few training sessions with you, to find out what is range of possible
modifications of which you are capable and which of them are comfortable.

Pat said:

There I was, swimming my breast stroke when a woman recovering from a car
accident passed me. The next day, I saw another woman swimming it
differently. The first woman spent a lot of time underwater with long,
powerful pulls. The second woman bobbed up and down like a fishing bobber.
She bobbed so high that her entire armpits came out of the water ( I was
going to say something else, but this seemed nicer).

Which is the proper way? Should I concentrate on spending more time
submerged and only come up to breathe? Or should I concentrate on more and
faster turnover of the stroke?

Pat in TX

No advice you can (or will) get on usenet is likely to be useful for
breaststroke swimming. The spcific combination of stroke characteristics
that are right for you depend on many variables, and can result in a great
variety of stroke styles, each most suited to a particular combination of
swimmer and swim. A point that shows this simply is the paucity of
double-gold medalists in breaststroke at the Olympics, compared to the
other disciplines (Heyns was the first - though Hencken did win the 200 in
'72 and the 100 in '76).

For help you definitely need someone with knowledge to actually see what
you are doing, at the minimum; and better would to have that someone do a
few training sessions with you, to find out what is range of possible
modifications of which you are capable and which of them are comfortable.

Pat said:

There I was, swimming my breast stroke when a woman recovering from a car
accident passed me. The next day, I saw another woman swimming it
differently. The first woman spent a lot of time underwater with long,
powerful pulls. The second woman bobbed up and down like a fishing bobber.
She bobbed so high that her entire armpits came out of the water ( I was
going to say something else, but this seemed nicer).

Which is the proper way? Should I concentrate on spending more time
submerged and only come up to breathe? Or should I concentrate on more and
faster turnover of the stroke?

Pat in TX

No advice you can (or will) get on usenet is likely to be useful for
breaststroke swimming. The spcific combination of stroke characteristics
that are right for you depend on many variables, and can result in a great
variety of stroke styles, each most suited to a particular combination of
swimmer and swim. A point that shows this simply is the paucity of
double-gold medalists in breaststroke at the Olympics, compared to the
other disciplines (Heyns was the first - though Hencken did win the 200 in
'72 and the 100 in '76).

For help you definitely need someone with knowledge to actually see what
you are doing, at the minimum; and better would to have that someone do a
few training sessions with you, to find out what is range of possible
modifications of which you are capable and which of them are comfortable.

_ said:

Pat said:

There I was, swimming my breast stroke when a woman recovering from a car
accident passed me. The next day, I saw another woman swimming it
differently. The first woman spent a lot of time underwater with long,
powerful pulls. The second woman bobbed up and down like a fishing bobber.
She bobbed so high that her entire armpits came out of the water ( I was
going to say something else, but this seemed nicer).

Which is the proper way? Should I concentrate on spending more time
submerged and only come up to breathe? Or should I concentrate on more and
faster turnover of the stroke?

Pat in TX

No advice you can (or will) get on usenet is likely to be useful for
breaststroke swimming. The spcific combination of stroke characteristics
that are right for you depend on many variables, and can result in a great
variety of stroke styles, each most suited to a particular combination of
swimmer and swim. A point that shows this simply is the paucity of
double-gold medalists in breaststroke at the Olympics, compared to the
other disciplines (Heyns was the first - though Hencken did win the 200 in
'72 and the 100 in '76).

For help you definitely need someone with knowledge to actually see what
you are doing, at the minimum; and better would to have that someone do a
few training sessions with you, to find out what is range of possible
modifications of which you are capable and which of them are comfortable.

If you can't get good advice on usenet, why are you giving advice on usenet?

_ said:

Pat said:

There I was, swimming my breast stroke when a woman recovering from a car
accident passed me. The next day, I saw another woman swimming it
differently. The first woman spent a lot of time underwater with long,
powerful pulls. The second woman bobbed up and down like a fishing bobber.
She bobbed so high that her entire armpits came out of the water ( I was
going to say something else, but this seemed nicer).

Which is the proper way? Should I concentrate on spending more time
submerged and only come up to breathe? Or should I concentrate on more and
faster turnover of the stroke?

Pat in TX

No advice you can (or will) get on usenet is likely to be useful for
breaststroke swimming. The spcific combination of stroke characteristics
that are right for you depend on many variables, and can result in a great
variety of stroke styles, each most suited to a particular combination of
swimmer and swim. A point that shows this simply is the paucity of
double-gold medalists in breaststroke at the Olympics, compared to the
other disciplines (Heyns was the first - though Hencken did win the 200 in
'72 and the 100 in '76).

For help you definitely need someone with knowledge to actually see what
you are doing, at the minimum; and better would to have that someone do a
few training sessions with you, to find out what is range of possible
modifications of which you are capable and which of them are comfortable.

If you can't get good advice on usenet, why are you giving advice on usenet?

_ said:

Pat said:

There I was, swimming my breast stroke when a woman recovering from a car
accident passed me. The next day, I saw another woman swimming it
differently. The first woman spent a lot of time underwater with long,
powerful pulls. The second woman bobbed up and down like a fishing bobber.
She bobbed so high that her entire armpits came out of the water ( I was
going to say something else, but this seemed nicer).

Which is the proper way? Should I concentrate on spending more time
submerged and only come up to breathe? Or should I concentrate on more and
faster turnover of the stroke?

Pat in TX

No advice you can (or will) get on usenet is likely to be useful for
breaststroke swimming. The spcific combination of stroke characteristics
that are right for you depend on many variables, and can result in a great
variety of stroke styles, each most suited to a particular combination of
swimmer and swim. A point that shows this simply is the paucity of
double-gold medalists in breaststroke at the Olympics, compared to the
other disciplines (Heyns was the first - though Hencken did win the 200 in
'72 and the 100 in '76).

For help you definitely need someone with knowledge to actually see what
you are doing, at the minimum; and better would to have that someone do a
few training sessions with you, to find out what is range of possible
modifications of which you are capable and which of them are comfortable.

If you can't get good advice on usenet, why are you giving advice on usenet?

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

_ said:

Pat said:

There I was, swimming my breast stroke when a woman recovering from
a car accident passed me. The next day, I saw another woman
swimming it differently. The first woman spent a lot of time
underwater with long, powerful pulls. The second woman bobbed up
and down like a fishing bobber. She bobbed so high that her entire
armpits came out of the water ( I was going to say something else,
but this seemed nicer).

Which is the proper way? Should I concentrate on spending more time
submerged and only come up to breathe? Or should I concentrate on
more and faster turnover of the stroke?

Pat in TX

No advice you can (or will) get on usenet is likely to be useful for
breaststroke swimming. The spcific combination of stroke
characteristics
that are right for you depend on many variables, and can result in a
great
variety of stroke styles, each most suited to a particular
combination of
swimmer and swim. A point that shows this simply is the paucity of
double-gold medalists in breaststroke at the Olympics, compared to
the
other disciplines (Heyns was the first - though Hencken did win the
200 in
'72 and the 100 in '76).

For help you definitely need someone with knowledge to actually see
what
you are doing, at the minimum; and better would to have that someone
do a
few training sessions with you, to find out what is range of possible
modifications of which you are capable and which of them are
comfortable.

If you can't get good advice on usenet, why are you giving advice on
usenet?

Do you just want people to killfile you? How about if you think about
what you write _before_ you hit the Send button? It's like you're some
7th grader - maybe you are ...

-S-

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

_ said:

Pat said:

There I was, swimming my breast stroke when a woman recovering from
a car accident passed me. The next day, I saw another woman
swimming it differently. The first woman spent a lot of time
underwater with long, powerful pulls. The second woman bobbed up
and down like a fishing bobber. She bobbed so high that her entire
armpits came out of the water ( I was going to say something else,
but this seemed nicer).

Which is the proper way? Should I concentrate on spending more time
submerged and only come up to breathe? Or should I concentrate on
more and faster turnover of the stroke?

Pat in TX

No advice you can (or will) get on usenet is likely to be useful for
breaststroke swimming. The spcific combination of stroke
characteristics
that are right for you depend on many variables, and can result in a
great
variety of stroke styles, each most suited to a particular
combination of
swimmer and swim. A point that shows this simply is the paucity of
double-gold medalists in breaststroke at the Olympics, compared to
the
other disciplines (Heyns was the first - though Hencken did win the
200 in
'72 and the 100 in '76).

For help you definitely need someone with knowledge to actually see
what
you are doing, at the minimum; and better would to have that someone
do a
few training sessions with you, to find out what is range of possible
modifications of which you are capable and which of them are
comfortable.

If you can't get good advice on usenet, why are you giving advice on
usenet?

Do you just want people to killfile you? How about if you think about
what you write _before_ you hit the Send button? It's like you're some
7th grader - maybe you are ...

-S-

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

_ said:

Pat said:

There I was, swimming my breast stroke when a woman recovering from
a car accident passed me. The next day, I saw another woman
swimming it differently. The first woman spent a lot of time
underwater with long, powerful pulls. The second woman bobbed up
and down like a fishing bobber. She bobbed so high that her entire
armpits came out of the water ( I was going to say something else,
but this seemed nicer).

Which is the proper way? Should I concentrate on spending more time
submerged and only come up to breathe? Or should I concentrate on
more and faster turnover of the stroke?

Pat in TX

No advice you can (or will) get on usenet is likely to be useful for
breaststroke swimming. The spcific combination of stroke
characteristics
that are right for you depend on many variables, and can result in a
great
variety of stroke styles, each most suited to a particular
combination of
swimmer and swim. A point that shows this simply is the paucity of
double-gold medalists in breaststroke at the Olympics, compared to
the
other disciplines (Heyns was the first - though Hencken did win the
200 in
'72 and the 100 in '76).

For help you definitely need someone with knowledge to actually see
what
you are doing, at the minimum; and better would to have that someone
do a
few training sessions with you, to find out what is range of possible
modifications of which you are capable and which of them are
comfortable.

If you can't get good advice on usenet, why are you giving advice on
usenet?

Do you just want people to killfile you? How about if you think about
what you write _before_ you hit the Send button? It's like you're some
7th grader - maybe you are ...

-S-

"Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There I was, swimming my breast stroke when a woman recovering from a
car accident passed me. The next day, I saw another woman swimming it
differently. The first woman spent a lot of time underwater with
long, powerful pulls. The second woman bobbed up and down like a
fishing bobber. She bobbed so high that her entire armpits came out of
the water ( I was going to say something else, but this seemed nicer).

As at least one other person has said, there's no substitute for a real
teacher when it comes to stroke mechanics.

Quoted message said:

Which is the proper way? Should I concentrate on spending more time
submerged and only come up to breathe? Or should I concentrate on more
and faster turnover of the stroke?

One should work on both things - do some sprints to work on faster
turnover, and do some stroke reduction drills to work on getting the
most out of each stroke. The best training program is one that
addresses whatever is holding you back, of course, but it's impossible
to say over the Internet whether you might need mostly one, mostly the
other, or equal amounts of both in your training.

FWIW, one thing I have found very useful in teaching breastroke is doing
multiple kicks for one pull. I typically have my kids swim 3 kicks to 1
pull for a lap followed by regular breastroke (1 kick to 1 pull) for the
next lap, part of the idea being that you want to transfer what you
learn from the 3 kicks drill immediately to your regular stroke. It's
important that the arms be streamlined straight to the front for the
three kicks - many people don't have enough glide in their breastroke
and this drill also teaches you to be comfortable in that position.
Many people also rely on their arms too much and their legs not enough
in breastroke, and again this drill attempts to address that - I see so
many people doing butterfly arms when swimming breastroke. You could,
of course, structure it differently, e.g., 3 kicks to 1 pull for a lap
or two, followed by 2 kicks to 1 pull for another lap or two, followed
by regular breastroke for another lap or two would be another variation.

Definitely get someone to watch you. As I've said here before, I spent
six months one year taking a 30-minute private swimming lesson from a
former competitive swimmer, and it changed my swimming immeasurably for
the better forever.

Hope that's of some help.

-S-

Quoted message said:

Pat in TX

"Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There I was, swimming my breast stroke when a woman recovering from a
car accident passed me. The next day, I saw another woman swimming it
differently. The first woman spent a lot of time underwater with
long, powerful pulls. The second woman bobbed up and down like a
fishing bobber. She bobbed so high that her entire armpits came out of
the water ( I was going to say something else, but this seemed nicer).

As at least one other person has said, there's no substitute for a real
teacher when it comes to stroke mechanics.

Quoted message said:

Which is the proper way? Should I concentrate on spending more time
submerged and only come up to breathe? Or should I concentrate on more
and faster turnover of the stroke?

One should work on both things - do some sprints to work on faster
turnover, and do some stroke reduction drills to work on getting the
most out of each stroke. The best training program is one that
addresses whatever is holding you back, of course, but it's impossible
to say over the Internet whether you might need mostly one, mostly the
other, or equal amounts of both in your training.

FWIW, one thing I have found very useful in teaching breastroke is doing
multiple kicks for one pull. I typically have my kids swim 3 kicks to 1
pull for a lap followed by regular breastroke (1 kick to 1 pull) for the
next lap, part of the idea being that you want to transfer what you
learn from the 3 kicks drill immediately to your regular stroke. It's
important that the arms be streamlined straight to the front for the
three kicks - many people don't have enough glide in their breastroke
and this drill also teaches you to be comfortable in that position.
Many people also rely on their arms too much and their legs not enough
in breastroke, and again this drill attempts to address that - I see so
many people doing butterfly arms when swimming breastroke. You could,
of course, structure it differently, e.g., 3 kicks to 1 pull for a lap
or two, followed by 2 kicks to 1 pull for another lap or two, followed
by regular breastroke for another lap or two would be another variation.

Definitely get someone to watch you. As I've said here before, I spent
six months one year taking a 30-minute private swimming lesson from a
former competitive swimmer, and it changed my swimming immeasurably for
the better forever.

Hope that's of some help.

-S-

Quoted message said:

Pat in TX

"Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There I was, swimming my breast stroke when a woman recovering from a
car accident passed me. The next day, I saw another woman swimming it
differently. The first woman spent a lot of time underwater with
long, powerful pulls. The second woman bobbed up and down like a
fishing bobber. She bobbed so high that her entire armpits came out of
the water ( I was going to say something else, but this seemed nicer).

As at least one other person has said, there's no substitute for a real
teacher when it comes to stroke mechanics.

Quoted message said:

Which is the proper way? Should I concentrate on spending more time
submerged and only come up to breathe? Or should I concentrate on more
and faster turnover of the stroke?

One should work on both things - do some sprints to work on faster
turnover, and do some stroke reduction drills to work on getting the
most out of each stroke. The best training program is one that
addresses whatever is holding you back, of course, but it's impossible
to say over the Internet whether you might need mostly one, mostly the
other, or equal amounts of both in your training.

FWIW, one thing I have found very useful in teaching breastroke is doing
multiple kicks for one pull. I typically have my kids swim 3 kicks to 1
pull for a lap followed by regular breastroke (1 kick to 1 pull) for the
next lap, part of the idea being that you want to transfer what you
learn from the 3 kicks drill immediately to your regular stroke. It's
important that the arms be streamlined straight to the front for the
three kicks - many people don't have enough glide in their breastroke
and this drill also teaches you to be comfortable in that position.
Many people also rely on their arms too much and their legs not enough
in breastroke, and again this drill attempts to address that - I see so
many people doing butterfly arms when swimming breastroke. You could,
of course, structure it differently, e.g., 3 kicks to 1 pull for a lap
or two, followed by 2 kicks to 1 pull for another lap or two, followed
by regular breastroke for another lap or two would be another variation.

Definitely get someone to watch you. As I've said here before, I spent
six months one year taking a 30-minute private swimming lesson from a
former competitive swimmer, and it changed my swimming immeasurably for
the better forever.

Hope that's of some help.

-S-

Quoted message said:

Pat in TX

Steve Freides said:

Do you just want people to killfile you? How about if you think about
what you write _before_ you hit the Send button? It's like you're some
7th grader - maybe you are ...

Please. Put me in your killfile.

Steve Freides said:

Do you just want people to killfile you? How about if you think about
what you write _before_ you hit the Send button? It's like you're some
7th grader - maybe you are ...

Please. Put me in your killfile.

Steve Freides said:

Do you just want people to killfile you? How about if you think about
what you write _before_ you hit the Send button? It's like you're some
7th grader - maybe you are ...

Please. Put me in your killfile.

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve Freides said:

Do you just want people to killfile you? How about if you think
about what you write _before_ you hit the Send button? It's like
you're some 7th grader - maybe you are ...

Please. Put me in your killfile.

Done.

-S-