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help, please

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
6 December 2003
Last activity
9 December 2003
Original author
Maryo49
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  1. Hi, rec.runners

    Maryo, here, and I really need your help. Thank you in advance.

    I am looking for help in finding an "internet savvy, database driven" orthopoedic surgeon. How do I
    go about finding one? I will go anywhere. Seriously. My boss told me today, "Don't give up", and I
    know she would support me going to Houston, wherever.

    I had an appointment today with my own orthopoedic surgeon. He wants to help. He said that what he
    can see is a spasmodic extensor digitorum brevis. Together we hypothesize that it spasms into
    positions which create other pains/problems. He said I could think about cutting the tendon. This is
    not a complicated thing, he said... he has done it hundreds of times (this tendon is "sacraficed" in
    surgery for another purpose), but not for this purpose. The biggest risk, he said, it that it
    wouldn't fix the problems with my foot. This isn't the tendon that connects to the leg--it connects
    to the muscle at the back side of the foot.

    I do trust him (he has all my history, and has followed this over the course of a couple of years),
    but, I mentioned that I should probably get some other opinions. He said, well, most likely since he
    has never seen this in all his years of research, study, and practice, then, most likely no one else
    will have seen it either (not specifically his words). It is a deformity, but, like he said...he
    doesn't know for sure that that is the source of my problems. It is SOME of it, he would think. He
    doesn't know why or how my foot has the pathology that it does.

    There IS the possibility that this is the result of a Morton's Neuroma surgery not by this doctor)
    gone wrong, but, I won't go into that here.

    ANYWAY... I said to the doctor... isn't there some database somewhere that we could look this up and
    see someone else who has dealt with this? He said..." I don't know."

    That's why I am asking this question. I don't understand what I read in medical terms, and no, I
    don't see something like this on the Internet. BUT... is there an orthopoedist whose "shtick" is
    researching the database of foot problems, and finding someone who has had a similar problem? This
    isn't on the "menu" of foot problems that are found on any Internet site.

    I hope you understand what I am looking for, and that someone will come forward.

    Thanks, again.

    Mary

  2. MaryO49 said:

    I hope you understand what I am looking for, and that someone will come forward.

    There is a sci.med.orthopedics. Try posting the question there. I have no idea how activd it
    is or isn't.

    Stuff orthopedic forum into a seach engine and see what crops up. I see
    orthopedicquestions.comorthopedicquestions.com for instance with questions and answers flowing. I have no idea
    about content or motivation. There are many others.

    --
    Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]

  3. MaryO49 said:

    I hope you understand what I am looking for, and that someone will come forward.

    There is a sci.med.orthopedics. Try posting the question there. I have no idea how activd it
    is or isn't.

    Stuff orthopedic forum into a seach engine and see what crops up. I see
    orthopedicquestions.comorthopedicquestions.com for instance with questions and answers flowing. I have no idea
    about content or motivation. There are many others.

    --
    Doug Freese [email hidden]

  4. Mary,

    Although I have found your foot problems fascinating in the past, my brain has somehow managed to
    divest itself of all the scintillating details. If you furnish us with a point form list detailing
    the injuries, symptoms, diagnoses and nomenclature associated with your condition we will be best
    equipped to search the far corners of the internet and compile here all relevant data. Once we've
    completed our easter egg hunt we can try to ferret out and distil the best and common treads,
    perhaps lighting the way through the dark and cavernous world of skeletal medicine.

    Seriously, Surf <you're not wearing Nikes are you?>

    "MaryO49" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi, rec.runners

    Maryo, here, and I really need your help. Thank you in advance.

    I am looking for help in finding an "internet savvy, database driven" orthopoedic surgeon. How do
    I go about finding one? I will go anywhere. Seriously. My boss told me today, "Don't give up", and
    I know she would support me going to Houston, wherever.

    I had an appointment today with my own orthopoedic surgeon. He wants to


    help.

    Quoted message said:

    He said that what he can see is a spasmodic extensor digitorum brevis. Together we hypothesize
    that it spasms into positions which create other pains/problems. He said I could think about
    cutting the tendon. This is


    not a

    Quoted message said:

    complicated thing, he said... he has done it hundreds of times (this


    tendon is

    Quoted message said:

    "sacraficed" in surgery for another purpose), but not for this purpose.


    The

    Quoted message said:

    biggest risk, he said, it that it wouldn't fix the problems with my foot.


    This

    Quoted message said:

    isn't the tendon that connects to the leg--it connects to the muscle at


    the

    Quoted message said:

    back side of the foot.

    I do trust him (he has all my history, and has followed this over the


    course of

    Quoted message said:

    a couple of years), but, I mentioned that I should probably get some other opinions. He said,
    well, most likely since he has never seen this in all


    his

    Quoted message said:

    years of research, study, and practice, then, most likely no one else will


    have

    Quoted message said:

    seen it either (not specifically his words). It is a deformity, but, like


    he

    Quoted message said:

    said...he doesn't know for sure that that is the source of my problems.


    It is

    Quoted message said:

    SOME of it, he would think. He doesn't know why or how my foot has the pathology that it does.

    There IS the possibility that this is the result of a Morton's Neuroma


    surgery

    Quoted message said:

    not by this doctor) gone wrong, but, I won't go into that here.

    ANYWAY... I said to the doctor... isn't there some database somewhere that


    we

    Quoted message said:

    could look this up and see someone else who has dealt with this? He


    said..." I

    Quoted message said:

    don't know."

    That's why I am asking this question. I don't understand what I read in medical terms, and no, I
    don't see something like this on the Internet.


    BUT...

    Quoted message said:

    is there an orthopoedist whose "shtick" is researching the database of


    foot

    Quoted message said:

    problems, and finding someone who has had a similar problem? This isn't


    on the

    Quoted message said:

    "menu" of foot problems that are found on any Internet site.

    I hope you understand what I am looking for, and that someone will come forward.

    Thanks, again.

    Mary

  5. "MaryO49" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Maryo, here, and I really need your help.

    No you don't. I told you surgery was a bad idea. You didn't listen. I'll tell you again, SURGERY IS
    A BAD IDEA.

    I think I told you what *might* work. A year or so's active rest - swimming, cycling, etc. - then a
    phased return to running. If time hasn't resolved matters, I'll bet a pound to a penny that surgery
    wouldn't either.

    Of course, I'm just a troll, what do I know?

    Roger.

  6. Quoted message said:

    Maryo, here, and I really need your help. Thank you in advance.

    I am looking for help in finding an "internet savvy, database driven" orthopoedic surgeon. How do
    I go about finding one? I will go anywhere. Seriously. My boss told me today, "Don't give up", and
    I know she would support me going to Houston, wherever.

    I had an appointment today with my own orthopoedic surgeon. He wants to


    help.

    Quoted message said:

    He said that what he can see is a spasmodic extensor digitorum brevis. Together we hypothesize
    that it spasms into positions which create other pains/problems. He said I could think about
    cutting the tendon. This is


    not a

    Quoted message said:

    complicated thing, he said... he has done it hundreds of times (this


    tendon is

    Quoted message said:

    "sacraficed" in surgery for another purpose), but not for this purpose.


    The

    Quoted message said:

    biggest risk, he said, it that it wouldn't fix the problems with my foot.


    This

    Quoted message said:

    isn't the tendon that connects to the leg--it connects to the muscle at


    the

    Quoted message said:

    back side of the foot.

    I do trust him (he has all my history, and has followed this over the


    course of

    Quoted message said:

    a couple of years), but, I mentioned that I should probably get some other opinions. He said,
    well, most likely since he has never seen this in all


    his

    Quoted message said:

    years of research, study, and practice, then, most likely no one else will


    have

    Quoted message said:

    seen it either (not specifically his words). It is a deformity, but, like


    he

    Quoted message said:

    said...he doesn't know for sure that that is the source of my problems.


    It is

    Quoted message said:

    SOME of it, he would think. He doesn't know why or how my foot has the pathology that it does.

    There IS the possibility that this is the result of a Morton's Neuroma


    surgery

    Quoted message said:

    not by this doctor) gone wrong, but, I won't go into that here.

    ANYWAY... I said to the doctor... isn't there some database somewhere that


    we

    Quoted message said:

    could look this up and see someone else who has dealt with this? He


    said..." I

    Quoted message said:

    don't know."


    MAKE SURE you understand it before you go ahead. DEFINITELY get a second or even a third opinion.

    Picture of the EDB: meddean.luc.eduedbf.htm

    It flexes the toes when ankle is in full dorsiflexion. Is the EDB affecting only one toe? Two, three
    or four toes?

    Flex the ankle to the max and then flex the toes. One could even try strengthening and stretching
    it, using your hands as resistance.

    Ideally, you could test your assumption before surgery, e.g., injecting the specific muscle flap and
    tendons with a relaxant. If it worked, you could feel better about a permanent operation.

    To read about surgery and caveats, see: microsurgeon.orgextensor brevis.htm

    The following description suggests that you want the version of the operation that spares the
    dorsalis pedis artery! Obviously, it must serve a purpose beyond the EDB. If your doctor does not do
    this, then ask for a referral. Also, if he removes the dorsalis pedis artery, you must depend on a
    collateral (secondary, backup) blood supply with perhaps a risk of losing blood supply to other
    parts of the foot.

    [Although the flap is reliable, the donor site may not be. Harvest of this flap usually requires
    sacrifice of the dorsalis pedis artery, although harvest of the flap sparing the dorsalis pedis
    artery has been described.8 In general, care must be taken to insure that collateral blood supply to
    the foot exists. This can be demonstrated with dorsalis pedis compression and first dorsal
    metatarsal artery monitoring with a pencil doppler probe. Even in the presence of a patent vascular
    arch and meticulous handling of the tissues, wound break-down is not an uncommon complication ]

    [Post-Operative Care The leg is strictly elevated for two weeks. After that point, compression with
    an Ace bandage is employed whenever the leg is dependent for an additional two weeks.]

    Quoted message said:

    That's why I am asking this question. I don't understand what I read in medical terms, and no, I
    don't see something like this on the Internet.


    BUT...

    Quoted message said:

    is there an orthopoedist whose "shtick" is researching the database of


    foot

    Quoted message said:

    problems, and finding someone who has had a similar problem? This isn't


    on the

    Quoted message said:

    "menu" of foot problems that are found on any Internet site.

    I hope you understand what I am looking for, and that someone will come forward.

    Thanks, again.

    Mary

  7. Oh man, Bill!!!!!! This is GREAT info!!!!!!! I am so glad you sent it!! This is a treasure trove of
    info. I did a search and was not able to find anything nearly so informative. Thanks. How can I
    thank you? Who are you?

    And thanks to the rest of you... Doug, Roger, Bill Rodgers, Surf. You know, I just don't know about
    this rapport I have with the "trolls." What's that say about me, that the trolls want to help me?
    They rise to my call, far more often than the others on rec.running.

    I sincerely appreciate help and concern, from wherever it comes.

    Mary

  8. Surf McBrowse said:

    Surf <you're not wearing Nikes are you?>

    She knows better.

  9. In so far as non surgical methods this is all I've found so far.

    mdvu.orgbtxa adg dys.html

    PDF : eudra.org411400en6.pdf

    Yuk. Nothing like a bit of Botulism to numb the pain.

    I assume you're focused on a cure rather than pain management.

    Surf <anti-Botox and alright with his crow's feet

  10. apusapus said:

    "MaryO49" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Maryo, here, and I really need your help.

    No you don't. I told you surgery was a bad idea. You didn't listen. I'll tell you again, SURGERY IS
    A BAD IDEA.

    I think I told you what *might* work. A year or so's active rest - swimming, cycling, etc. - then a
    phased return to running. If time hasn't resolved matters, I'll bet a pound to a penny that surgery
    wouldn't either.

    Of course, I'm just a troll, what do I know?

    Roger.

    Well you are certainly no dr, that's for sure.

  11. Surf McBrowse said:

    Surf <you're not wearing Nikes are you?>

    She knows better.

  12. In so far as non surgical methods this is all I've found so far.

    mdvu.orgbtxa adg dys.html

    PDF : eudra.org411400en6.pdf

    Yuk. Nothing like a bit of Botulism to numb the pain.

    I assume you're focused on a cure rather than pain management.

    Surf <anti-Botox and alright with his crow's feet

  13. apusapus said:

    "MaryO49" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Maryo, here, and I really need your help.

    No you don't. I told you surgery was a bad idea. You didn't listen. I'll tell you again, SURGERY IS
    A BAD IDEA.

    I think I told you what *might* work. A year or so's active rest - swimming, cycling, etc. - then a
    phased return to running. If time hasn't resolved matters, I'll bet a pound to a penny that surgery
    wouldn't either.

    Of course, I'm just a troll, what do I know?

    Roger.

    Well you are certainly no dr, that's for sure.

  14. (MaryO49) said:

    Oh man, Bill!!!!!! This is GREAT info!!!!!!! I am so glad you sent it!! This is a treasure trove of
    info. I did a search and was not able to find anything nearly so informative. Thanks. How can I
    thank you? Who are you?

    And thanks to the rest of you... Doug, Roger, Bill Rodgers, Surf. You know, I just don't know about
    this rapport I have with the "trolls." What's that say about me, that the trolls want to help me?
    They rise to my call, far more often than the others on rec.running.

    I sincerely appreciate help and concern, from wherever it comes.

    Mary

    Hi Mary, Well you know some people around here would have far less trouble with trolls if they took
    your attitude. Glad to help. I must say at this stage of your problem I am completely out of ideas,
    but I'm glad to help as such it was. TheBillRodgers

  15. <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Surf McBrowse said:

    Surf <you're not wearing Nikes are you?>

    She knows better.

    She, and the rest of humanity have you alone to thank.

  16. <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Surf McBrowse said:

    Surf <you're not wearing Nikes are you?>

    She knows better.

    She, and the rest of humanity have you alone to thank.

  17. Surf McBrowse said:
    Quoted message said:

    She knows better.

    She, and the rest of humanity have you alone to thank.

    Well Len 'ol buddy, I'm in very good company on this side of the fence. So carry on!

  18. Quoted message said:

    Well Len 'ol buddy, I'm in very good company on this side of the fence. So carry on!

    Len?

  19. Surf McBrowse said:
    Quoted message said:

    She knows better.

    She, and the rest of humanity have you alone to thank.

    Well Len 'ol buddy, I'm in very good company on this side of the fence. So carry on!

  20. Re-quoting error.

    Surf McBrowse said:
    Quoted message said:


    Well Len 'ol buddy, I'm in very good company on this side of the fence. So carry on!

    Len?

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