Bell harmonics

A Muzi said:

A customer asked which bell is loudest when wet.

Until today I did not know thin bike bells don't ring well when wet. Try
it - a schpritz of Windex will do.

The heavier the better I think: a 230 grams 80mm Ding-dong is
unaffected, a 23gram wonder just dies

--
/Marten (never worried about this before 😉 )

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

A Muzi said:

A customer asked which bell is loudest when wet.

Until today I did not know thin bike bells don't ring well when wet. Try
it - a schpritz of Windex will do.

I discovered this way back in '89 when I was riding my majestic Kroon
in the damp of Gothenburg. The "new" little ding bells are the worst
offenders. They quit working at the mention of moisture.

You want real firepower! My DL1 sports one of these:

http://www.maststoreonline.com/browse.cfm/4,143.htm

A customer asked which bell is loudest when wet.

Until today I did not know thin bike bells don't ring well when wet. Try
it - a schpritz of Windex will do.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

In article <[email hidden]>,

A Muzi said:

A customer asked which bell is loudest when wet.

Until today I did not know thin bike bells don't ring well when wet. Try
it - a schpritz of Windex will do.

I use the brass I bell. Very pleasant. Loud enough.

When I, or anyone, needs volume, voice is the choice.
Less time to give a good loud hail, and milliseconds count.
Voice is adaptive to the circumstances.

Often I am rolling down the street while somebody
fresh out of a car is wandering lost in the middle
of the street. A little "Hey!" as I close on them
makes for a very satisfactory encounter. Helps them
regain consciousness.

The bell is most useful when closing on bicyclists
from behind.

I did the water on the bell experiment and it does
muffle the sound.

--
Michael Press

A Muzi said:

A customer asked which bell is loudest when wet.

Until today I did not know thin bike bells don't ring well when wet. Try
it - a schpritz of Windex will do.

Wow. I had no idea. But then I haven't had a bike with a bell in
decades so I guess that's no surprise.

We'll have to put Carl Fogel in charge of ferreting out how this works.
I spent some time googling around with no luck in finding an
explanation. Obviously the moisture on the bell results in a very rapid
decay of the note (I hesitate to use the word "damping" for obvious
reasons... huh, I wonder if this is where the term actually comes from).

Tim McNamara said:

A Muzi said:

A customer asked which bell is loudest when wet.

Until today I did not know thin bike bells don't ring well when wet. Try
it - a schpritz of Windex will do.

Wow. I had no idea. But then I haven't had a bike with a bell in
decades so I guess that's no surprise.

We'll have to put Carl Fogel in charge of ferreting out how this works.
I spent some time googling around with no luck in finding an
explanation. Obviously the moisture on the bell results in a very rapid
decay of the note (I hesitate to use the word "damping" for obvious
reasons... huh, I wonder if this is where the term actually comes from).

Dear Tim,

A bell works by vibrating hard, dense metal against extremely thin,
soft air.

The energy you put into the bell with a tiny hammer mechanism causes
the bell to vibrate until friction (mostly against the air, but some
internal friction) causes the vibration to die away. The hard metal
vibrates nicely, with little internal loss, causing waves in the thin
air that your incredibly sensitive ears can pick up.

If you touch a small bell with your finger, the sound stops instantly
because the energy is absorbed and dissipated by the soggy mass at the
end of your finger.

The energy is so tiny (despite the apparentlyl loud noise picked up by
our sensitive ears) that you scarcely notice how your finger jiggles
when you touch a tiny bell, but you can feel it if you ratchet a bike
bell a few times with your finger on it--your finger feels the bzzz!
of the hammer striking and your ears notice that the sound has almost
vanished.

If you cover the hard metal surface of a bell with something less
hard, like cloth or water, then you damp the vibration, adding more
friction, so the sound dies away much more quickly. The energy goes
into uselessly jiggling the cloth or water in aimless directions and
greatly reduced rates that produce little in the way of sound waves in
air. Strike a bell and the hard metal resonates back and forth. Strike
a cloth punching bag, and the energy dissipates in all directions,
rearranging millions of cotton fibers in different directions.

A larger bell makes more sound when wet for several reasons.

First, the mass of the bell is much larger, compared to the film of
water on its surface, so there's less damping (pun resisted).

Next, a larger bell usually employs a bigger hammer mechanism, so
there's more energy and a louder initial sound.

Finally, smaller bells are higher-pitched instruments, which aren't as
loud to start with for practical reasons and are more easily damped.
For example, a piccolo is not as loud as a tuba, and you can damp a
violin string with one careless fingertip, but not the four-foot bass
tube of a pipe organ.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A customer asked which bell is loudest when wet.

Until today I did not know thin bike bells don't ring well when wet. Try
it - a schpritz of Windex will do.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Yes, resonance is fascinating, and delicate. As Carl explained earlier,
water tends to muffle a bike bell, but would not muffle a (much greater
mass) church steeple bell.

The following link http://www.acoustics.salford.ac.uk/acoustics_info/glass/
has two interesting links within it. One link shows video of the Tacoma
Narrows Bridge. Another link within has slow motion video of a wine glass
shattering.

Why is a Strad violin worth millions, but a cheap violin can be had for
$100? The physics of resonance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance

J.

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

A Muzi said:

A customer asked which bell is loudest when wet.

Until today I did not know thin bike bells don't ring well when wet. Try
it - a schpritz of Windex will do.

I use the brass I bell. Very pleasant. Loud enough.

When I, or anyone, needs volume, voice is the choice.
Less time to give a good loud hail, and milliseconds count.
Voice is adaptive to the circumstances.

Often I am rolling down the street while somebody
fresh out of a car is wandering lost in the middle
of the street. A little "Hey!" as I close on them
makes for a very satisfactory encounter. Helps them
regain consciousness....

Yell "Hey" at people in the wrong neighborhood, and they will likely
pull a gun on you. Not a good idea when riding in the 'hood.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

Jay said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A customer asked which bell is loudest when wet.

Until today I did not know thin bike bells don't ring well when wet. Try
it - a schpritz of Windex will do.

Yes, resonance is fascinating, and delicate. As Carl explained earlier,
water tends to muffle a bike bell, but would not muffle a (much greater
mass) church steeple bell....

For that matter, brass and woodwind instruments would not function if a
little bit of moisture killed their resonance.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

"Tim McNamara" wrote: (clip)(I hesitate to use the word "damping" for
obvious

Quoted message said:

reasons... huh, I wonder if this is where the term actually comes from).

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thanks for giving me an opening to discuss one of my pet peeves.
"Dampening" means adding moisture. "Damping" refers to the absorption of
energy from a vibrating system. Damping is what happens in an auto shock
absorber, or when the soft pedal of a piano is depressed. Dampening is what
happens when someone uses a spray bottle while ironing, or when you try to
ring your bike bell in the rain.

Leo Lichtman said:

"Tim McNamara" wrote: (clip)(I hesitate to use the word "damping" for

obvious> reasons... huh, I wonder if this is where the term actually comes from).

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thanks for giving me an opening to discuss one of my pet peeves.
"Dampening" means adding moisture. "Damping" refers to the absorption of
energy from a vibrating system. Damping is what happens in an auto shock
absorber, or when the soft pedal of a piano is depressed. Dampening is what
happens when someone uses a spray bottle while ironing, or when you try to
ring your bike bell in the rain.

In the case of the bell, does not dampening lead to damping?

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 10:51:46 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

A customer asked which bell is loudest when wet.

Until today I did not know thin bike bells don't ring well when wet. Try
it - a schpritz of Windex will do.

Dear Andrew,

So far, nothing shows up in the golden era of bicycle bells (1890),
but these new-fangled bells may be of interest:

"Quiet when wet":

http://www.rei.com/pwr/product-reviews/Cycling/Cycling-Safety-Equipment/Bike-Bells/p/738328-Incredibell-Brass-Duet-Bell.html

"Works when wet":

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ACA0H6/?tag=msnshop-sports-20&creative=380337&creativeASIN=B000ACA0H6&linkCode=asn

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

jim beam said:

A Muzi said:

A customer asked which bell is loudest when wet.

Quoted message said:

Until today I did not know thin bike bells don't ring well when wet. Try
it - a schpritz of Windex will do.

can we reach back to the "elastomers do not attenuate vibration" thread
here as well?

:-) Sure, if you can't tell the difference between your ears and
your butt!

- Frank Krygowski

On Nov 3, 5:02 pm, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Jay said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A customer asked which bell is loudest when wet.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Until today I did not know thin bike bells don't ring well when wet. Try
it - a schpritz of Windex will do.

Quoted message said:

Yes, resonance is fascinating, and delicate. As Carl explained earlier,
water tends to muffle a bike bell, but would not muffle a (much greater
mass) church steeple bell....

For that matter, brass and woodwind instruments would not function if a
little bit of moisture killed their resonance.

Of course, in brass and woodwind instruments, it's the air column
inside that does the pertinent vibrating, not the instrument's
material. It takes a well-trained ear (and/or a good imagination) to
detect the effect, if any, of the instrument's material on its tone
quality.

It's different for string instruments, where the body vibrates in
response to string input, and transfers that vibration to the air.

- Frank Krygowski

"Ozark Bicycle" wrote: In the case of the bell, does not dampening lead to
damping?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes, and since the bell cannot be heard, possibly to dumping.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you touch a small bell with your finger, the sound stops instantly
because the energy is absorbed and dissipated by the soggy mass at the
end of your finger.

The energy is so tiny (despite the apparentlyl loud noise picked up by
our sensitive ears) that you scarcely notice how your finger jiggles
when you touch a tiny bell,...

"The energy is tiny" is right.

A related bicycling issue: Some cyclists worry that a tiny squeak
from their chain is proof of great waste of their legs' energy. But
the chirp of a cricket is many, many times louder, and crickets can
make that sound for hours and hours using leg muscles that are
literally microscopic.

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

jim beam said:

A Muzi said:

A customer asked which bell is loudest when wet.
Until today I did not know thin bike bells don't ring well when wet. Try
it - a schpritz of Windex will do.

can we reach back to the "elastomers do not attenuate vibration" thread
here as well?

:-) Sure, if you can't tell the difference between your ears and
your butt!

- Frank Krygowski

ok, you're back to idiot status.

jim beam said:

Quoted message said:

jim beam said:

A Muzi wrote:
> A customer asked which bell is loudest when wet.
> Until today I did not know thin bike bells don't ring well when
> wet. Try it - a schpritz of Windex will do.
can we reach back to the "elastomers do not attenuate vibration"
thread here as well?

:-) Sure, if you can't tell the difference between your ears and
your butt!

- Frank Krygowski

ok, you're back to idiot status.

When did he leave? LOL

Jay said:

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A customer asked which bell is loudest when wet.

Until today I did not know thin bike bells don't ring well when wet. Try
it - a schpritz of Windex will do.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Yes, resonance is fascinating, and delicate. As Carl explained earlier,
water tends to muffle a bike bell, but would not muffle a (much greater
mass) church steeple bell.

The following link http://www.acoustics.salford.ac.uk/acoustics_info/glass/
has two interesting links within it. One link shows video of the Tacoma
Narrows Bridge. Another link within has slow motion video of a wine glass
shattering.

http://www.acoustics.salford.ac.uk/feschools/waves/wine3video.htm

Is quite fantastic. Who would have believed you could deform glass by
that much without it...ah, as you were.

Quoted message said:

Why is a Strad violin worth millions, but a cheap violin can be had for
$100? The physics of resonance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance

J.