Strobe lights ?

still me said:

So, I'm driving down a country road last night, and as I come around a
corner a wildly flashing white strobe light accosts me coming the
other way (fortunately on the opposite side of the road).

My first thought was WTF? Then I realized it was a bicycle headlight,
and my second thought was WTF!

but did it attract your attention? or were you too busy trying to
calculate your intersection coordinates to stay out of its way?

jim beam said:

still me said:

So, I'm driving down a country road last night, and as I come around a
corner a wildly flashing white strobe light accosts me coming the other
way (fortunately on the opposite side of the road).

My first thought was WTF? Then I realized it was a bicycle headlight,
and my second thought was WTF!

but did it attract your attention? or were you too busy trying to
calculate your intersection coordinates to stay out of its way?

The purpose of bicycle lights is not to actively attract attention (and/
or confusion, distraction, irritation, etc.) The purpose of bicycle
lights is to make the bicycle *visible* in conditions where it would
otherwise not be seen.

For this reason it is illegal in many (European) countries to have
blinking lights on a bicycle. Blinking lights in these countries are
understood to be indicators or signaling/emergency lights. I think the
police here (Netherlands) would certainly frown upon stroboscopic lights.

nmp said:

jim beam said:

still me said:

So, I'm driving down a country road last night, and as I come around a
corner a wildly flashing white strobe light accosts me coming the other
way (fortunately on the opposite side of the road).

My first thought was WTF? Then I realized it was a bicycle headlight,
and my second thought was WTF!

but did it attract your attention? or were you too busy trying to
calculate your intersection coordinates to stay out of its way?

The purpose of bicycle lights is not to actively attract attention (and/
or confusion, distraction, irritation, etc.) The purpose of bicycle
lights is to make the bicycle *visible* in conditions where it would
otherwise not be seen.

For this reason it is illegal in many (European) countries to have
blinking lights on a bicycle. Blinking lights in these countries are
understood to be indicators or signaling/emergency lights. I think the
police here (Netherlands) would certainly frown upon stroboscopic lights.

i think the more important question is not about a law dating back from
whenever actually standing on the books, but whether your police
actually enforce it. have you experience of this? what is the habit of
local riders?

"nmp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
(snip)

Quoted message said:

The purpose of bicycle lights is not to actively attract attention (and/
or confusion, distraction, irritation, etc.) The purpose of bicycle
lights is to make the bicycle *visible* in conditions where it would
otherwise not be seen.

(snip)

What's the difference between attracting attention and making something
visible? Seems to me that if a bike light reaches the level of being
consciously perceived it has done both. Anything that makes a cyclist
sharing the roadways with motorized vehicles more immediately perceptible
among the cacophony of distractions many drivers choose to surround
themselves with these days is a good thing. Personally, I WANT to
successfully compete for drivers' attention with their in-car TVs,
cell-phones, food items they are stuffing themselves with as they drive,
fighting kids in the back seat, etc.

So, I wear bright clothing, put reflective items on the bike and myself,
run a red strobe as well as blinking LEDs on the back, have two CCF light
tubes on the seat stays, and use a powerful dual-beam headlight. People I
know who happen to pass me in their cars tell me later, "I saw you on the
way to work today." That's exactly what I want - to be easily seen. Use
your faint steady lights if you choose to, but you probably won't have a
chance to change your mind if you get hit. The purpose of bicycle lights is
to keep you alive.

BTW, the state patrol officers who regularly pass me on the highway NEVER
bother me about my lights. They understand what I'm trying to do. They
know how inattentive many drivers are.

Cal

still me said:

So, I'm driving down a country road last night, and as I come around a
corner a wildly flashing white strobe light accosts me coming the
other way (fortunately on the opposite side of the road).

My first thought was WTF? Then I realized it was a bicycle headlight,
and my second thought was WTF!

Some lights have a setting for this; the Cateye EL-410 is one.

Silly me, I always thought that the purpose of a headlight was to, you
know, illuminate the roadway ahead of the bicycle, and a strobe effect
would have little benefit. In the midwestern US I rarely see people
riding with blinking headlights.
~

jim beam said:

nmp said:

jim beam said:

still me wrote:
> So, I'm driving down a country road last night, and as I come around
> a corner a wildly flashing white strobe light accosts me coming the
> other way (fortunately on the opposite side of the road).
>
> My first thought was WTF? Then I realized it was a bicycle
> headlight, and my second thought was WTF!
>
>
>
but did it attract your attention? or were you too busy trying to
calculate your intersection coordinates to stay out of its way?

The purpose of bicycle lights is not to actively attract attention
(and/ or confusion, distraction, irritation, etc.) The purpose of
bicycle lights is to make the bicycle *visible* in conditions where it
would otherwise not be seen.

For this reason it is illegal in many (European) countries to have
blinking lights on a bicycle. Blinking lights in these countries are
understood to be indicators or signaling/emergency lights. I think the
police here (Netherlands) would certainly frown upon stroboscopic
lights.

i think the more important question is not about a law dating back from
whenever

In the case of the Dutch Voertuigreglement ("vehicle regulations"😉, that
would be 1994 (last updated).

Quoted message said:

actually standing on the books, but whether your police actually
enforce it.

Like police everywhere: when they feel like it. They certainly have the
right to do so.

Quoted message said:

have you experience of this?

I was ticketed once for not having lights at all. I know people get
ticketed sometimes for having blinkers. But police officers sometimes
seem to feel "well at least he has SOMETHING that looks like a light".
They will tell you then to push the little button so it stops blinking
and starts emitting light continuously. You will be educated on the
requirements of the law and then sent off.

Quoted message said:

what is the habit of local riders?

Having normal non-blinking lights is still the norm that most people
comply with. New bicycles (roadsters, not race/mountain bikes) will have
good functional lights on them almost without exception. OTOH cheap
blinkers are no longer rare since you can buy them at almost every
supermarket. Many people don't seem to be aware that they are illegal
when used in blinking mode. Many of them have unfortunately bought into
the silly misconception that blinkers are "better" or "saver".

They are not.

On 2007-10-27, nmp <[email hidden]> wrote:
[...]

Quoted message said:

The purpose of bicycle lights is not to actively attract attention (and/
or confusion, distraction, irritation, etc.) The purpose of bicycle
lights is to make the bicycle *visible* in conditions where it would
otherwise not be seen.

For this reason it is illegal in many (European) countries to have
blinking lights on a bicycle. Blinking lights in these countries are
understood to be indicators or signaling/emergency lights. I think the
police here (Netherlands) would certainly frown upon stroboscopic lights.

Are you sure that's the reason they're illegal? I thought (based on
rumour and conjecture) they were illegal in GB because of the absurd
consideration that you are technically riding with no rear light at all
for the duration of each blink's off-phase.

I think they've changed the law here and they aren't illegal any more.

Ben C said:

On 2007-10-27, nmp <[email hidden]> wrote: [...]

Quoted message said:

The purpose of bicycle lights is not to actively attract attention
(and/ or confusion, distraction, irritation, etc.) The purpose of
bicycle lights is to make the bicycle *visible* in conditions where it
would otherwise not be seen.

For this reason it is illegal in many (European) countries to have
blinking lights on a bicycle. Blinking lights in these countries are
understood to be indicators or signaling/emergency lights. I think the
police here (Netherlands) would certainly frown upon stroboscopic
lights.

Are you sure that's the reason they're illegal? I thought (based on
rumour and conjecture) they were illegal in GB because of the absurd
consideration that you are technically riding with no rear light at all
for the duration of each blink's off-phase.

Thinking about that, I don't feel it is such an absurd consideration at
all. Lots of things can happen, and lives have been lost, in the blink of
an eye.

Quoted message said:

I think they've changed the law here and they aren't illegal any more.

Irrationality does find its way into legislation sometimes.

I saw ONE also. VERY impressive rear red strobe. outstanding survival
value for the oncoming drunken SUV. Police cheapo is online at $25-30.
Master mechanic suggests strobe bulbs are more delicate than bike
lamps or bike LED.

Quoted message said:

From watching once, considering the police model or two as the colors

are optional, is/as standard equipment for cross country touring or HD
commuting.

Another approach:
I bought one unknown quantity>
http://www.rei.com/product/723347
the unit doesn't flash! Sheeeet. So I set it on and outside, walked
back in and looked out thru the slider and it flashed. Yaaahhaaaa!
Light flashes switchless as the kayak rises, falls and jiggles thru a
jiggle lens.
Wanna get the scoop? Search: http://ecatalog.westmarine.com/

Red blinking lights are rarely (at least here in "the States"😉 used as a
caution or warning blinker. Road hazards are marked with yellow or amber
flashers, Police use blue, Fire uses red but it's always mounted on the
top of the truck, and accompanied by a siren.

The only time you see a red flasher at road level is for a stopped or
slow moving vehicle that may pose a hazard to passing motorists. Since a
bicycle is a slow moving vehicle that may pose a hazard, I think it
qualifies.

- -
Compliments of:
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

If you want to E-mail me use:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

My website:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

nmp said:

Ben C said:

I thought (based on
rumour and conjecture) they were illegal in GB because of the absurd
consideration that you are technically riding with no rear light at all
for the duration of each blink's off-phase.

Thinking about that, I don't feel it is such an absurd consideration at
all. Lots of things can happen, and lives have been lost, in the blink of
an eye.

Surely you're not serious!

Doubtlessly, lives have been lost in the blink of an eye. But I
really doubt any life ever been lost because a motorist saw a
cyclist's light blink, and blink, and blink, and blink... and then
suddenly thought "Oh, it's been dark for half a second. That
bicyclist must have vanished!"

- Frank Krygowski

frkrygow said:

nmp said:

Ben C said:

I thought (based on
rumour and conjecture) they were illegal in GB because of the absurd
consideration that you are technically riding with no rear light at
all for the duration of each blink's off-phase.

Thinking about that, I don't feel it is such an absurd consideration at
all. Lots of things can happen, and lives have been lost, in the blink
of an eye.

Surely you're not serious!

Justabit...

Quoted message said:

Doubtlessly, lives have been lost in the blink of an eye. But I really
doubt any life ever been lost because a motorist saw a cyclist's light
blink, and blink, and blink, and blink... and then suddenly thought "Oh,
it's been dark for half a second. That bicyclist must have vanished!"

In some situations, there *might* not be enough time or opportunity to
see the blink-blink-blink happening before one hits the cyclist.

Ben C said:

Are you sure that's the reason they're illegal? I thought (based on
rumour and conjecture) they were illegal in GB because of the absurd
consideration that you are technically riding with no rear light at all
for the duration of each blink's off-phase.

I think they've changed the law here and they aren't illegal any more.

There are standards that lights are required to meet, and those didn't
allow for flashing. I don't think it was because a flashing light is
only a light half the time so much as they weren't considered at all. Or
it could be that flashing lights were only allowed in certain
circumstances, eg by emergency services.

The highway code has been updated to allow flashing lights.
http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4568

I think that bicycles (and trikes) are the only vehicles allowed to use
blinkies as their only lights. Emergency vehicles have flashing lights
of course, but these are in addition to the lights they are required to
have.

Four pedal reflectors are required too, and must be "plainly visible".
This doesn't make a lot of sense with panniers or especially a
recumbent. It makes almost all clipless pedals illegal, and selling a
bike fitted with them also illegal, but no one seems to care.

So much for .uk on to the country I live in now. In .nz I think there
was a prosecution several years ago against a cyclist who had a blinkie.
Flashing red (and/or blue) lights were only legal for emergency
services, but I don't know how the case turned out and suspect it got
dropped. It was several years ago, so I could be misremembering, and I
can't find anything on the web that refers to it. The law was changed to
allow blinkies.

We are allowed either steady or flashing lights, but if there are two at
the front only one can flash. Lights are required at night, of course.

Pedal reflectors or reflectorised clothing/straps on the lower leg are
also required. This gets ignored a lot.

A Muzi said:

My Japanese sources say red flashers are reserved for emergency
vehicles, hence no bike flashers there. A quick reading of US statutes
might make that a grey area here, too. In practice, cops seem to find
other activities to fill a shift besides writing cyclists for the
'wrong' kind of bike light.

It's a gray area. Flashing yellow lights are legal for warning about
"slow moving vehicles." Flashing red lights are legal in some states for
bicycles.

I find the flashing white lights on the front of bicycles to be mildly
annoying, but very visible.

nmp said:

In some situations, there *might* not be enough time or opportunity to
see the blink-blink-blink happening before one hits the cyclist.

Well, the one I posted about was way past "blink" and into "bright
white strobe headlight". I think it represented more of a hazard to
motorists than it did a safety device to bikers, at least on that dark
country road. Not to mention, as the bike's apparent headlight, one
has to assume the rider gets an interesting view of the road in front
of him.

I think it would be a "feature" if it was a small add on light
designed to draw some attention beyond that of the usual steady
headlight, but as a primary headlight, it was not a good thing.

still me said:

nmp said:

In some situations, there *might* not be enough time or opportunity to
see the blink-blink-blink happening before one hits the cyclist.

I'm still skeptical. That would have to be limited to situations
where the cyclist came into the visual field only a second or so
before the crash.

Quoted message said:

Well, the one I posted about was way past "blink" and into "bright
white strobe headlight". I think it represented more of a hazard to
motorists than it did a safety device to bikers, at least on that dark
country road.

Yes, to me, anything as blinding as a strobe is mindless overkill.

Quoted message said:

Not to mention, as the bike's apparent headlight, one
has to assume the rider gets an interesting view of the road in front
of him.

I think it would be a "feature" if it was a small add on light
designed to draw some attention beyond that of the usual steady
headlight, but as a primary headlight, it was not a good thing.

ISTM that a blinking front LED in _addition_ to a proper steady
headlight, could add a modest bit of benefit. The effect would be
very similar to the modulated headlights used by some motorcyclists.

However, I'd stop way short of saying they're necessary on a bicycle -
which is where a lot of people seem to end up, when praising their
personal choice of safety equipment.

- Frank Krygowski

Ben C said:

On 2007-10-27, nmp <[email hidden]> wrote:
[...]

Quoted message said:

The purpose of bicycle lights is not to actively attract attention (and/
or confusion, distraction, irritation, etc.) The purpose of bicycle
lights is to make the bicycle *visible* in conditions where it would
otherwise not be seen.

For this reason it is illegal in many (European) countries to have
blinking lights on a bicycle. Blinking lights in these countries are
understood to be indicators or signaling/emergency lights. I think the
police here (Netherlands) would certainly frown upon stroboscopic lights.

Are you sure that's the reason they're illegal? I thought (based on
rumour and conjecture) they were illegal in GB because of the absurd
consideration that you are technically riding with no rear light at all
for the duration of each blink's off-phase.

There's not at all illegal in the UK.

What is required is that you DO have a legal set of lights. Extra lights
are fine - as long as you also have the legal ones.

_ said:

Ben C said:

nmp said:

For this reason it is illegal in many (European) countries to have
blinking lights on a bicycle. Blinking lights in these countries are
understood to be indicators or signaling/emergency lights. I think the
police here (Netherlands) would certainly frown upon stroboscopic lights.

Are you sure that's the reason they're illegal? I thought (based on
rumour and conjecture) they were illegal in GB because of the absurd
consideration that you are technically riding with no rear light at all
for the duration of each blink's off-phase.

There's not at all illegal in the UK.

I haven't seen Ben C's or nmp's posts. Perhaps they weren't x-posted to
urc. But no, flashing lights are no longer illegal in the UK, even as a
primary light:
<http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20052559.htm>

(FWIW I don't approve of this change in the law. I'm happy for flashing
rear lights to be legal, but not flashing front lights nor for any
flashing light to be legal without having a steady light alongside it).

The flashing rate is limited to 4 flashes per second, presumably to
prevent any possibility of a flashing light triggering an epileptic fit.

--
Danny Colyer <http://www.redpedals.co.uk>
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"The plural of anecdote is not data" - Frank Kotsonis