Certainly not malice

Quoted message said:

I think perhaps there needs to be an information campaign on how to
safely overtake other road users.

Agreed. I took my driving test only two years ago. Dealing with bikes
and horses was only mentioned in the theory test, not when actually on
the road. I tend to approach a bike pretty much the same way as a
horse but not quite as slow. I think drivers need to realise they need
the same sort of caution as both of us 'don't dent', as a wonderful
campaign by a young horsewoman says.

Dylan Smith said:

Then a driver who certainly had his or her heart in the right place.
Pity he was giving me the whole width of the road about 50 yards ahead
of where I was, not when actually passing me. When he was actually
passing me, he was so close that the 'bow wave' from his car
significantly made me wobble (I suspect his mirror passed my elbow
within 3 inches, the car was probably doing 60 mph).

Yes, clearly a menace.

However when I'm overtaking cyclists in my car on roads with restricted visibility /and/
more vehicles behind me I keep on the right for a good way in front (if safe to do so)
because I can see the road ahead is clear and so if I'm there the vehicles behind know
they can safely use the RH side of the road when from where they are they can't see ahead
far enough to be certain.

--
Peter Fox
Beer, dancing, cycling and lots more at www.eminent.demon.co.uk

Peter Fox said:

Dylan Smith said:

Then a driver who certainly had his or her heart in the right place.
Pity he was giving me the whole width of the road about 50 yards ahead
of where I was, not when actually passing me. When he was actually
passing me, he was so close that the 'bow wave' from his car
significantly made me wobble (I suspect his mirror passed my elbow
within 3 inches, the car was probably doing 60 mph).

Yes, clearly a menace.

However when I'm overtaking cyclists in my car on roads with restricted
visibility /and/ more vehicles behind me I keep on the right for a good
way in front (if safe to do so) because I can see the road ahead is
clear and so if I'm there the vehicles behind know they can safely use
the RH side of the road when from where they are they can't see ahead
far enough to be certain.

If the leading vehicle in a line of overtakers has a sufficiently good
view of a *clear* road ahead, that is always a good idea - no matter
what is being overtaken - and as long as following drivers are quick
on the uptake.

Dylan Smith said:

....just incompetence

I had two close calls in less than half a mile - first, a van overtaking
another van, coming in the opposite direction, making me brake to almost
walking pace to avoid a head on collision.

Then a driver who certainly had his or her heart in the right place.
Pity he was giving me the whole width of the road about 50 yards ahead
of where I was, not when actually passing me. When he was actually
passing me, he was so close

I get this regularly, not necessarily cutting so close, but cars
moving away as they pass, making it fully to the right only 20 yards
ahead.

A truck driver got it right yesterday, at least as far as I was
concerned. Out at a proper passing distance as he went past, didn't
cut back in - in fact stayed out so long that he made a car coming the
other way brake sharply. Less than perfect driving, but if motorised
vehicles are going to get too close to something, it should be the one
with air bags and seat belts rather than vulnerable road users.

Rob

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

....just incompetence

I had two close calls in less than half a mile - first, a van overtaking
another van, coming in the opposite direction, making me brake to almost
walking pace to avoid a head on collision.

Then a driver who certainly had his or her heart in the right place.
Pity he was giving me the whole width of the road about 50 yards ahead
of where I was, not when actually passing me. When he was actually
passing me, he was so close that the 'bow wave' from his car
significantly made me wobble (I suspect his mirror passed my elbow
within 3 inches, the car was probably doing 60 mph).

I think perhaps there needs to be an information campaign on how to
safely overtake other road users.

Today it was silver Merc drivers with me - two of them. The first tried
to overtake me in London as the road was narrowing so had to pull back
over too soon. I caught him at the next traffic light and tapped on his
window to ask if he got pleasure out of reaching the red light five
seconds earlier by cutting me up. He claimed he didn't realise he'd
done it so I used the line that if he'd hit me he would have a scratch
on his paintwork while my children would have been visiting their Dad in
hospital. That seemed to connect with him and got profuse apologies.

The next silver Merc used the cycle lane line as the stop line coming
out of a side street. I stopped (deliberately) with my front wheel
against his front wing and again knocked on the window and had a
conversation.

Hopefully two silver Merc drivers will now think a little more about
cyclists but somehow I doubt it.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

Tony Raven said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

....just incompetence

Quoted message said:

I had two close calls in less than half a mile - first, a van overtaking
another van, coming in the opposite direction, making me brake to almost
walking pace to avoid a head on collision.

Quoted message said:

Then a driver who certainly had his or her heart in the right place.
Pity he was giving me the whole width of the road about 50 yards ahead
of where I was, not when actually passing me. When he was actually
passing me, he was so close that the 'bow wave' from his car
significantly made me wobble (I suspect his mirror passed my elbow
within 3 inches, the car was probably doing 60 mph).

Quoted message said:

I think perhaps there needs to be an information campaign on how to
safely overtake other road users.

Today it was silver Merc drivers with me - two of them. The first tried
to overtake me in London as the road was narrowing so had to pull back
over too soon. I caught him at the next traffic light and tapped on his
window to ask if he got pleasure out of reaching the red light five
seconds earlier by cutting me up. He claimed he didn't realise he'd
done it so I used the line that if he'd hit me he would have a scratch
on his paintwork while my children would have been visiting their Dad in
hospital. That seemed to connect with him and got profuse apologies.

The next silver Merc used the cycle lane line as the stop line coming
out of a side street. I stopped (deliberately) with my front wheel
against his front wing and again knocked on the window and had a
conversation.

Hopefully two silver Merc drivers will now think a little more about
cyclists but somehow I doubt it.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Do you worry that someone is going to get aggressive with you when you
consider reprimanding them?

In article <[email hidden]>, asrl07
@yahoo.co.uk says...

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

....just incompetence

Quoted message said:

I had two close calls in less than half a mile - first, a van overtaking
another van, coming in the opposite direction, making me brake to almost
walking pace to avoid a head on collision.

Quoted message said:

Then a driver who certainly had his or her heart in the right place.
Pity he was giving me the whole width of the road about 50 yards ahead
of where I was, not when actually passing me. When he was actually
passing me, he was so close that the 'bow wave' from his car
significantly made me wobble (I suspect his mirror passed my elbow
within 3 inches, the car was probably doing 60 mph).

Quoted message said:

I think perhaps there needs to be an information campaign on how to
safely overtake other road users.

Today it was silver Merc drivers with me - two of them. The first tried
to overtake me in London as the road was narrowing so had to pull back
over too soon. I caught him at the next traffic light and tapped on his
window to ask if he got pleasure out of reaching the red light five
seconds earlier by cutting me up. He claimed he didn't realise he'd
done it so I used the line that if he'd hit me he would have a scratch
on his paintwork while my children would have been visiting their Dad in
hospital. That seemed to connect with him and got profuse apologies.

The next silver Merc used the cycle lane line as the stop line coming
out of a side street. I stopped (deliberately) with my front wheel
against his front wing and again knocked on the window and had a
conversation.

Hopefully two silver Merc drivers will now think a little more about
cyclists but somehow I doubt it.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Do you worry that someone is going to get aggressive with you when you
consider reprimanding them?

I did have a truck driver climb out his cab to come and remonstrate with
me for not using a psyclepath once but as soon as I stood all of my
6'6" height up from my bicycle he backed off.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

Adam Lea said:

Do you worry that someone is going to get aggressive with you when you
consider reprimanding them?

<stereotyping>
That's black BMWs.
</stereotyping>

I think I only had two 'pass too close' incidents today in about 30
miles of London riding: one from in front and one from behind. The
latter had heaps of road available but chose not to use it.

It really isn't that bad out there.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

Adam Lea said:

On 25 Oct, 17:23, Tony Raven <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hopefully two silver Merc drivers will now think a little more about
cyclists but somehow I doubt it.

Quoted message said:

Do you worry that someone is going to get aggressive with you when you
consider reprimanding them?

In my experience, if I approach people calmly and politely they react
calmly and politely.

Cheers,
Luke, driver of a silver Merc

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

In message <1i6k5ya.1loz6s2gggqccN%notmyaddress.1.ekulnamsob@wronghead
..com>

(Ekul Namsob) said:

In my experience, if I approach people calmly and politely they react
calmly and politely.

Absolutely my experience.

--
Charles
Brompton P6R-Plus; CarryFreedom -YL, in Motspur Park
LCC; CTC.

In article <1i6k5ya.1loz6s2gggqccN%
[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Cheers,
Luke, driver of a silver Merc

So it was you was it? ;-)

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In my experience, if I approach people calmly and politely they react
calmly and politely.

Absolutely my experience.

Correlation but not perfect. Having been carved up very dangerously
by a woman turning right into a car park, across my path, I ended up
in the car park as well as it was the only manoeuver I could manage
that didn't involve a collision. She got out of the car, and -
standing about 10 feet away, so as to avoid seeming threatening - I
said "that was a very dangerous manouever". She replied that "I was
indicating; you should have seen that and slowed down". I pointed out
that I had right of way; I was cycling on a two-way street and she was
turning right. Her response was "you should have slowed down;
cyclists are just inferior"!

At this stage, "calm and polite" lost the battle with "utterly
enraged", and I made some sort of incoherent squawk before getting on
my bike and riding away, before I did something that the criminal
justice system would regret.

On the other hand, most drivers are fairly decent. This morning, for
instance, I was more-or-less keeping pace with a taxi driver on my
commute (catching up at traffic lights, most of which have left-hand
access lanes for bikes). At the fourth such occasion (two of us
alongside, waiting for the lights) he gave me a cheery wave. So yes,
not all is evil.

In article <1i6k5ya.1loz6s2gggqccN%
[email hidden]>, Ekul Namsob
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

In my experience, if I approach people calmly and politely they react
calmly and politely.

Is that where I'm going wrong? I tend to be annoyed and offensive in
that situation, but that's just the mood I'm usually in when some fool
nearly put me in hospital. I don't recall anyone ever getting out of a
vehicle to escalate the discussion.

Tony Raven said:

In article <1i6k5ya.1loz6s2gggqccN%
[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Cheers,
Luke, driver of a silver Merc

So it was you was it? ;-)

Why, do you want to start something?

Cheers,
Luke

;-)

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

in message <[email hidden]>, Adam Lea

(') said:

Tony Raven said:

Hopefully two silver Merc drivers will now think a little more about
cyclists but somehow I doubt it.

Do you worry that someone is going to get aggressive with you when you
consider reprimanding them?

Tony's a big guy. One of the benefits of being a big guy and obviously fit
is that couch potatoes think twice about getting out of their nice safe
steel boxes. Obviously, if they get aggressive using their steel boxes,
even a big guy has a problem.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Human history becomes more and more a race between
;; education and catastrophe.
H.G. Wells, "The Outline of History"

Tony Raven said:

In article <[email hidden]>, asrl07
@yahoo.co.uk says...

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> ....just incompetence

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I had two close calls in less than half a mile - first, a van overtaking
> another van, coming in the opposite direction, making me brake to almost
> walking pace to avoid a head on collision.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Then a driver who certainly had his or her heart in the right place.
> Pity he was giving me the whole width of the road about 50 yards ahead
> of where I was, not when actually passing me. When he was actually
> passing me, he was so close that the 'bow wave' from his car
> significantly made me wobble (I suspect his mirror passed my elbow
> within 3 inches, the car was probably doing 60 mph).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I think perhaps there needs to be an information campaign on how to
> safely overtake other road users.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Today it was silver Merc drivers with me - two of them. The first tried
to overtake me in London as the road was narrowing so had to pull back
over too soon. I caught him at the next traffic light and tapped on his
window to ask if he got pleasure out of reaching the red light five
seconds earlier by cutting me up. He claimed he didn't realise he'd
done it so I used the line that if he'd hit me he would have a scratch
on his paintwork while my children would have been visiting their Dad in
hospital. That seemed to connect with him and got profuse apologies.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The next silver Merc used the cycle lane line as the stop line coming
out of a side street. I stopped (deliberately) with my front wheel
against his front wing and again knocked on the window and had a
conversation.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hopefully two silver Merc drivers will now think a little more about
cyclists but somehow I doubt it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

--
Tony

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Do you worry that someone is going to get aggressive with you when you
consider reprimanding them?

I did have a truck driver climb out his cab to come and remonstrate with
me for not using a psyclepath once but as soon as I stood all of my
6'6" height up from my bicycle he backed off.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wow you are impressively tall. Unfortunatly for me, being a "mere" 6
ft and cursed with a shy, timid personality, I wouldn't have the same
effect.

Adam

Simon Brooke said:

in message

Quoted message said:

Obviously, if they get aggressive using their steel boxes,
even a big guy has a problem.

This is the thing I would be most concerned with. If someone decides
to ram you off the road then there is little you can do if there are
no witnesses as you are unlikely to be in a situation to get the
number plate.

I would think that the odds of encountering someone insane enough to
contemplate doing this are rare though.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Tony's a big guy. One of the benefits of being a big guy and obviously fit
is that couch potatoes think twice about getting out of their nice safe
steel boxes. Obviously, if they get aggressive using their steel boxes,
even a big guy has a problem.

Yes but they will make a bigger dent in their precious steel boxes which
tends to have the desired effect ;-)

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

Adam Lea said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message

Quoted message said:

Obviously, if they get aggressive using their steel boxes,
even a big guy has a problem.

This is the thing I would be most concerned with. If someone
decides to ram you off the road then there is little you can do if
there are no witnesses as you are unlikely to be in a situation to
get the number plate.

And if you do get the number plate and multiple witnesses ...
there is little the police can/will do.

Quoted message said:

I would think that the odds of encountering someone insane enough
to contemplate doing this are rare though.

Happened to me once for real and once threatened.

regards, Ian SMith
--
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