Track bikes

D.M. Procida said:

I was surprised to see a couple of things at the track race I watched
last Friday.

One was that all the riders seemed to have arrived in their cars! I
expected they'd all be riding up, if they didn't come from miles
around.

Secondly, the bikes all seemed to be road bikes with derailleurs - I
thought they'd be single-speed track bikes. What's the advantage of
having lots of gears on a flat track?

Where was it? What kind of track and event?

Quoted message said:

A final question: does the weight of a track bike make much
difference? Once it's rolling it's rolling; I can't see that a bit of
weight is going to make much difference to keeping up the speed.

It makes a difference when they want to up the speed, ie. accelerate.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Quoted message said:

Secondly, the bikes all seemed to be road bikes with derailleurs - I
thought they'd be single-speed track bikes. What's the advantage of
having lots of gears on a flat track?

Where was it? What kind of track and event?

An hour long race around an oval track, with about 25 riders. I think
they did 45 minutes + 10 laps.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A final question: does the weight of a track bike make much
difference? Once it's rolling it's rolling; I can't see that a bit of
weight is going to make much difference to keeping up the speed.

It makes a difference when they want to up the speed, ie. accelerate.

I didn't see much sudden acceleration going on, but perhaps there was.

Daniele

D.M. Procida said:

Pete Biggs said:

Quoted message said:

Secondly, the bikes all seemed to be road bikes with derailleurs - I
thought they'd be single-speed track bikes. What's the advantage of
having lots of gears on a flat track?

Where was it? What kind of track and event?

An hour long race around an oval track, with about 25 riders. I think
they did 45 minutes + 10 laps.

Maindy, Cardiff, outdoor.

Quoted message said:

marc used his keyboard to write :

Quoted message said:

D.M. Procida said:

Pete Biggs said:

> Secondly, the bikes all seemed to be road bikes with derailleurs - I
> thought they'd be single-speed track bikes. What's the advantage of
> having lots of gears on a flat track?
Where was it? What kind of track and event?

An hour long race around an oval track, with about 25 riders. I think
they did 45 minutes + 10 laps.

Maindy, Cardiff, outdoor.

Quoted message said:

It must have been a pretty bizarre "track" event if the riders were
competing on bikes with gears - road bikes, presumably. I've never
ridden Maindy, but I assume it's not a steeply banked track, in which
case it will be perfectly possible to ride a road bike. However, it's
certainly not "proper" track racing. I also assume that no could have
been riding a track bike at all, otherwise the combination would have
been very dangerous.

As for the lack of acceleration, that also tends to suggest something a
little odd. Even in distance events, a track race without significant
acceleration is, erm, unusual...

--
Simon

Simon D said:

It must have been a pretty bizarre "track" event if the riders were
competing on bikes with gears - road bikes, presumably. I've never
ridden Maindy, but I assume it's not a steeply banked track, in which
case it will be perfectly possible to ride a road bike.

Not very banked, but why would gears preclude it?

Quoted message said:

However, it's certainly not "proper" track racing. I also assume that no
could have been riding a track bike at all, otherwise the combination
would have been very dangerous.

I didn't notice one.

Quoted message said:

As for the lack of acceleration, that also tends to suggest something a
little odd. Even in distance events, a track race without significant
acceleration is, erm, unusual...

That was just what I saw! I don't want any racers from the night turning
up saying "[censored], I was accelerating till I thought I was going to
puke, what do you mean you didn't notice it?!"

Daniele

D.M. Procida brought next idea :

Quoted message said:

Simon D said:

It must have been a pretty bizarre "track" event if the riders were
competing on bikes with gears - road bikes, presumably. I've never
ridden Maindy, but I assume it's not a steeply banked track, in which
case it will be perfectly possible to ride a road bike.

Not very banked, but why would gears preclude it?

Gears wouldn't, but road bikes arent' great on a (steeply banked)
velodrome. The cranks are too long and the bottom brackets too low for
lower-speed riding (they hit the track). There are a lot of other
things that make road bikes inappropriate for track use, and gears
simply aren't necessary. Was this some sort of beginners' event,
intended for people to get a taster of track racing without having to
fork out on a track bike, perhaps?

I notice from a quick Google, incidentally, that the track isn't steep
- it's a 600m track, which doesn't tend to feel much different to a
heavily-cambered road! :o)

--
Simon

D.M. Procida brought next idea :

Quoted message said:

Simon D said:

It must have been a pretty bizarre "track" event if the riders were
competing on bikes with gears - road bikes, presumably. I've never
ridden Maindy, but I assume it's not a steeply banked track, in which
case it will be perfectly possible to ride a road bike.

Not very banked, but why would gears preclude it?

Gears wouldn't, but road bikes arent' great on a (steeply banked)
velodrome. The cranks are too long and the bottom brackets too low for
lower-speed riding (they hit the track). There are a lot of other
things that make road bikes inappropriate for track use, and gears
simply aren't necessary. Was this some sort of beginners' event,
intended for people to get a taster of track racing without having to
fork out on a track bike, perhaps?

I notice from a quick Google, incidentally, that the track isn't steep
- it's a 600m track, which doesn't tend to feel much different to a
heavily-cambered road! :o)

--
Simon

Simon D said:

D.M. Procida brought next idea :

Quoted message said:

Simon D said:

It must have been a pretty bizarre "track" event if the riders were
competing on bikes with gears - road bikes, presumably. I've never
ridden Maindy, but I assume it's not a steeply banked track, in which
case it will be perfectly possible to ride a road bike.

Not very banked, but why would gears preclude it?

Gears wouldn't, but road bikes arent' great on a (steeply banked)
velodrome. The cranks are too long and the bottom brackets too low for
lower-speed riding (they hit the track). There are a lot of other
things that make road bikes inappropriate for track use, and gears
simply aren't necessary. Was this some sort of beginners' event,
intended for people to get a taster of track racing without having to
fork out on a track bike, perhaps?

I notice from a quick Google, incidentally, that the track isn't steep
- it's a 600m track, which doesn't tend to feel much different to a
heavily-cambered road! :o)

Yes, the old Herne Hill was very unsteep but the new one is rather
un-nerving to ride round on a road bike but is still way short of the
"wall-of-death" of a modern 250m track.

Track irons tend to have higher BBs and shorter cranks which enable
them to be ridden round steep banks at slower speeds and to be pedaled
at higher revs when needed. There is a technique of "dropping a heel"
used by sprinters when jockeying for position at near-standstill
speeds high on the banking. The heel hits the track before the pedal
thus giving you some warning before your rear wheel is pitched up off
the track losing grip and you slithering down to the cote d' azure in
an undignified heap whilst your opponent taps round unopposed to
victory.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Hi Daniele

Quoted message said:

That was just what I saw! I don't want any racers from the night turning
up saying "[censored], I was accelerating till I thought I was going to
puke, what do you mean you didn't notice it?!"

That was what I was going to say! 🙂

It's crit / circuit road racing rather than proper track racing. I know they
do sessions on fixed gear track bikes down there but I've only seen kids
doing those before races earlier in the year.

A lot of road racing is done on tracks (I've raced a similar one with lower
banking in Portsmouth) and motor racing circuits (Castle Combe, Thruxton
etc.) on road race bikes with gears. It's a good workout and pretty full on
racing - I did some of the "lungopener" races at the start of the season
which were good as a novice rider - in theory it's also safer than racing on
open roads though every race I've done has had an incident of some sort -
one guy broke his collar bone 3 weeks ago.

I was in the Cheltenham + County CC kit (I live in Cheltenham so riding down
after work is not an option!) riding the Orbea - this one
http://www.saworks.dsl.pipex.com/orca_finished_resized.jpg

Tried to get across about half way through to the 7 riders that made up the
lap but didn't make it - think I finished around 12th. Got an 8th 3 weeks
ago and my first points as a 3rd cat - last Friday was my final last race of
my first season and the fastest one I've done all year but it is also the
quickest, smoothest surface of anywhere I've been to.

If you want some stats (from my GPS so obviously the lap up group would have
been faster):

Race distance was 23.73mph (78 laps)
My average speed for the race was 27.4mph
Fastest average speed lap was 35.6mph (last lap - though I also did a 33.9
mph average on lap 37 on my own trying to get across)
Slowest average speed lap 21.6mph (lap 7)
Maximum speed 39.0 mph (over the finish line)

Fast enough?!

Btw, hope the crappy end to your evening doesn't stop you going down to
watch again or even participate!

Just had the dates for next year come through from Cardiff JIF:
15 February, 22 February, 29 February and 7 March 2008
4th’s @ 19.00 Race distance 45mins + 10 laps
2, 3 @ 20.00 Race distance 45mins + 10 laps

Apparently Cardiff Ajax also run a training sessions there right through the
winter on Wednesday nights @ 19.00.

Regards,

Simon

SAW said:

Race distance was 23.73mph (78 laps)
My average speed for the race was 27.4mph
Fastest average speed lap was 35.6mph (last lap - though I also did a 33.9
mph average on lap 37 on my own trying to get across)
Slowest average speed lap 21.6mph (lap 7)
Maximum speed 39.0 mph (over the finish line)

Fast enough?!

Er, yeah. I'd be quite happy to average 27.4mph for a lap, never mind
for 78 of them.

Quoted message said:

Btw, hope the crappy end to your evening doesn't stop you going down to
watch again or even participate!

Well, we were thinking that actually. But I don't think I'm in that sort
of league.

Also, I'd need to find a suitable bike, hence my question elsewhere
about converting an old bike into a track bike, which I could use to
haul my carcass around the track a few times during the winter.

I think I could probably go a little bit faster round a smooth track on
a racing bike than I could on my tourer with rack and pannier on the
roads, especially after a bit of practice. But I don't know how much
faster.

Daniele