speed

Zebee Johnstone said:

Climbing hills, the only way to get better at it is to climb the
bloody things, that I get.

Quoted message said:

But speed... Are there ways to improve speed generally? And better
ways to go faster?

I'm assuming you don't mean refining the equipment, just "yourself"?

Quoted message said:

Should I be spinning, just try a lower gear so I'm pushing a little
harder, or drop more gears and lower rpm, pushing like hell?

As I understand it, the body is like a high revving machine. A high
cadence, or pedal rate, would be ideal. That said, don't go all out and go
stupid or anything, generally, 90-110rpm as a ballpark range would be acceptable.
Again, don't go stupid trying to stick to that range the whole time, I'm
talking about general cruising sections where you're not negotiating obstacles
and such.

If you have gauges that can measure cadence, don't panic if you can't keep
up with the "recommened" range, it only takes a bit of practice, but you'll
get there.

Advantages of this range, is that it's below the range where you'll lose
power (too fast, around the 120-140 area), and it's fast enough to keep your
legs working at a higher energy rate continuously. (Faster your legs more, the
more blood gets pumped, the faster the lactic acid gets taken away.
Also, if you're too slow, it's a LOT of stress on your knees, so I'm
guessing you want to avoid knee problems by trying to keep the cadence up.

Quoted message said:

SHould I just be trying to go a bit faster the whole time, or do
intervals of going all out? If intervals, how long? one minute?
10?

I'm hazzarding a guess and going to say training advice would be outside the
scope of usenet, it can get quite detailed, and depends very much on the
person, and exactly what they want to achieve.

*Generally speaking* you should do both. Go as fast as you can over the
allotted time, allowing that you're not going to burn out before you get back.
This builds your general longer distance stamina.

At other times, do intervals, where you're going really hard (too hard to do
the entire distance/time) but have "rest" periods inbetween so the _average_
is enough to get you to the distance/time without falling over in a heap.
This builds your short term strength. (Hills might effectively do a similar
thing).

Quoted message said:

I have an hour and 20km to play with....

That's not long at all, and if that's the only time distance you had to play
with, I'd be going hard and fast the whole time. It's not ideal, but if
that's the only ride you have to work with...

With a flat road in a loop configuration, and no stops, you can probably
cruise at 35Km average trip without breaking a sweat. Negotiate the bay-bay
bike path here in Sydney on the other hand (adults, dogs, children and
assorted other obstacles), and you'd be trying hard to get higher than 20Km/h
average trip.

Personally, I used to do daily very short (16Km) trips over 35 minutes or
so, but hard and fast. This was before I learned about the significance of
cadence, where I was pedalling very slow. Overall, (on other trips) I did
fairly well, my legs were as big as tree trunks, and I had continual knee
problems.
After my purchasing my polar HRM and cadence sensor, learning what a more
ideal rate is (along with learning what's normal for my body), my legs shrunk
significantly (well noticeably anyway), but my overall performance increased
slightly. And by FAR less knee problems (I was born with knee issues anyway).

As I said, ideally, do both, longer distance, (60-100Km), AND short term
hard workouts.

If you've got the money, something like a Polar hear rate monitor with the
cadence sensor option, and a bit of homework to find out what is required for
YOUR body would be great idea.

Just as a side note, if you do decide to go with a heart rate monitor, do
*NOT* use the rule of thumb 220-age to calculate your maximum heart rate.
It's wrong. It only works for about 80% of the population. Great, if you are
like 80% of the population, but if your body is weird like mine, it will only
give you completely useless numbers. My REAL HRmax is 200. My "calculated"
HRmax is 180.
Going on that, one of the training ranges, they said don't go above 140bpm.
[censored], I do 140 just thinking hard- and I haven't started moving yet...
Guess what numbers you have to guess (too hard/expensive for proper testing)
but at least do the simple tests like HRmax yourself. It's easy to do and
proves the point a WHOLE lot better than "rule of thumb" calculations.

--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>

Zebee Johnstone said:

Climbing hills, the only way to get better at it is to climb the
bloody things, that I get.

But speed... Are there ways to improve speed generally? And better
ways to go faster?

Should I be spinning, just try a lower gear so I'm pushing a little
harder, or drop more gears and lower rpm, pushing like hell?

SHould I just be trying to go a bit faster the whole time, or do
intervals of going all out? If intervals, how long? one minute?
10?

I have an hour and 20km to play with....

Zebee

Generally, increase mileage, and mix in intervals. You want to raise
your sustainable power threshold. I'd suggest tootling to the local
book shop and getting a book on cycle training and having a look
through that, or googling around. A particularly good read is Joe
Friels 'The Cyclists Training Bible'

The thing that made the most difference to my commute (35km) was
putting red cordial in my water bottle. Having a ready supply of
sugar for my muscles means that I recover from the hills more
quickly...

Just a bit of extra sugar probably added 1km/h to my average speed.

Zebee Johnstone said:

But speed... Are there ways to improve speed generally? And better
ways to go faster?

Should I be spinning, just try a lower gear so I'm pushing a little
harder, or drop more gears and lower rpm, pushing like hell?

Lower and spin generally.
but the question comes down to "speed for what?"

Quoted message said:

SHould I just be trying to go a bit faster the whole time, or do
intervals of going all out? If intervals, how long? one minute?
10?

See comment above.
100m sprinters train differently to marathon runners. Same would apply
for different bicycle racing/use.

Quoted message said:

I have an hour and 20km to play with....

just try to either improve your time for the 20kms or increase the
distance you can ride in 1 hour. Basic choice.

Bugbear said:

The thing that made the most difference to my commute (35km) was
putting red cordial in my water bottle. Having a ready supply of
sugar for my muscles means that I recover from the hills more
quickly...

Just a bit of extra sugar probably added 1km/h to my average speed.

Wouldn't you say that until you needed it for racing, unless it counts
as drugs.

Far better to train your body, than rely on "magic pills".

I used to think butter scotch lollies were great for hill climbing, but
not when they only last for one hill.

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:57:16 -0700

Bugbear said:

The thing that made the most difference to my commute (35km) was
putting red cordial in my water bottle. Having a ready supply of
sugar for my muscles means that I recover from the hills more
quickly...

Just a bit of extra sugar probably added 1km/h to my average speed.

I was trying sugared black coffee - why stick at one drug! - but
orange juice seems to work better than that for me.

Zebee

In aus.bicycle on Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:15:57 +1000

Terryc said:

Zebee Johnstone said:

But speed... Are there ways to improve speed generally? And better
ways to go faster?

Should I be spinning, just try a lower gear so I'm pushing a little
harder, or drop more gears and lower rpm, pushing like hell?

Lower and spin generally.
but the question comes down to "speed for what?"

Quoted message said:

To avoid being passed quite so often 🙂

I don't meet the number of cyclists on this run that I met on the
commute into North Sydney, so my ego is mostly intact.

The ones I do meet are doing mroe than my usual 23-25 (if my speedo
can be relied on) and while I can do more, I run out of go after a
bit.

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone said:

The ones I do meet are doing mroe than my usual 23-25 (if my speedo
can be relied on) and while I can do more, I run out of go after a
bit.

Recovery becomes an issue here, too.

Are the people passing you doing the same distance as you, every day
of the week? I suspect not.

I have a very similar commute length (~22k, 55min, no killer hills),
and find that I can hammer if I want, but I'll be feeling it on the
way home in the afternoon, or going in the next morning Maybe I need
more milo when I get home.

Terryc said:

Lower and spin generally.
but the question comes down to "speed for what?"

I am new to commuting and cycling (three months) so also trying to
build up my cycling fitness/seed. I am currently focusing on aiming
for an average cadence of 90 over my comute (20 km to 30 km depending
on where I am riding to).

I am finding this is building my fitness and is helping with the
weight loss. However my average spped is not improving much at the
moment but then issues such as head winds come into play.

Yesterday I did around 40 km straight into a bloody gale (well felt
like it) down the coast here in Perth and whilst my average dropped
off to around 20 km/h I was happy to maintain an average cadence of
86. Below my target but okay given the the conditions/my fitness.

Once my cadence is up where it should be I will start working on
building my speeds whilst maintaining my cadence.

Regards
Andrew
-----
Churchlands, Western Australia
Giant CRX 1; Giant Boulder SE
http://aushiker.com http://www.bicyclewa.com.au/blog/8 http://backpackgeartest.org http://geocaching.com.au

Andrew Priest said:

However my average spped is not improving much at the
moment but then issues such as head winds come into play.

Improvements are not always evenand occassionally you can take a step
backwards, so don't stress.

If your can solve the headwind problem, we'd all like to know. {:-) Best
you can do is tuck down and in.

Bleve said:

Generally, increase mileage, and mix in intervals. You want to raise
your sustainable power threshold.

Agreed. I found intervals to be the trick with speed increases. Add the
occasional run of hill repeats to develop your strength and endurance
and it all adds up.

Test yourself every month or so on a ~5k flatish section of road by
doing an ITT (i.e. as fast as you can). Note a spot (road sign,
pot-hole, whatever) at the start and finish of your ITT so you can
reproduce the distance and terrain. Write down your times and see if
they improve at all. While you can't control the weather (e.g. headwind
one day, tail wind the next) the results should indicate a gradual
increase in speed over time.

Perhaps also join a regular BR. Is there a 'bent BR around town
somewhere?!? :-)

--
Bean

Remove "yourfinger" before replying

Terryc said:

If your can solve the headwind problem, we'd all like to know. {:-) Best
you can do is tuck down and in.

Actually I don't mind a headwind too much.... its basically a matter of making yourself aerodynamic as possible, narrow and down, I reckon the worst is the wind that hits from the head/side.... its much harder to maintain a good rhythm and is harder to hide from.

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:59:16 +1000

Bean Long said:

Agreed. I found intervals to be the trick with speed increases. Add the
occasional run of hill repeats to develop your strength and endurance
and it all adds up.

I'll give it a try, there's some suitablish spots on the run. All the
flat stuff is cycle paths but the homebush section is wide enough and
usually clear enough.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps also join a regular BR. Is there a 'bent BR around town
somewhere?!? :-)

heh, if the sydney bent mob manage to get together at all, it's
strictly pub focused!

Zebee

Andrew Priest said:

I am new to commuting and cycling (three months) so also trying to
build up my cycling fitness/seed. I am currently focusing on aiming
for an average cadence of 90 over my comute (20 km to 30 km depending
on where I am riding to).

Unless you're an unusually large, strong chap you should probably
be aiming for a cadence of 95-100, even if it means using easier gears.
That shifts some of the load from your legs to your lungs, and improves
fitness and promotes weight loss more quickly.

Zebee Johnstone said:

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:59:16 +1000

Bean Long said:

Agreed. I found intervals to be the trick with speed increases. Add the
occasional run of hill repeats to develop your strength and endurance
and it all adds up.

I'll give it a try, there's some suitablish spots on the run. All the
flat stuff is cycle paths but the homebush section is wide enough and
usually clear enough.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps also join a regular BR. Is there a 'bent BR around town
somewhere?!? :-)

heh, if the sydney bent mob manage to get together at all, it's
strictly pub focused!

Zebee

I've never seen a 'bent bunch. It would be an interesting sight and
extremely quick on the flat, I'd imagine!!

--
Bean

Remove "yourfinger" before replying

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:25:37 +1000

Bean Long said:

I've never seen a 'bent bunch. It would be an interesting sight and
extremely quick on the flat, I'd imagine!!

only if they are all the same height....

No one can draft a lowracer, not even another lowracer!

Besides, think of the chain tattoos with all those buzzsaws going.

Zebee

MikeyOz said:

Actually I don't mind a headwind too much.... its basically a matter of
making yourself aerodynamic as possible, narrow and down, I reckon the
worst is the wind that hits from the head/side.... its much harder to
maintain a good rhythm and is harder to hide from.

Agreed. Anything gusty, especially sidewinds.

Paterson back into Maitland one day, bicycles were over up to 45deg to
keep on track. Bit dicky getting back up when the gust stopped,