FS frame

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm helping a friend of mine find a new XC bike. We're considering Full Suspension but he's on a
budget so the plan is to buy as good a frame as possible with as cheap components as possible,
maybe none. This way he can upgrade components as his budget allows and end up with a really nice
bike in the end.

I did this, bought a FS bike, and upgraded the components.

Not worth it. Costs more in the end ... except you'll have a bike exactly how you want it.

If I could do it again, I would save my money and get a higher level of components at
initial purchase.

C.Q.C.

I recently picked up a Klein Adept Race second hand. The components are not great (LX/XT mostly),
but they are very workable if you keep them clean and tuned. It's still pretty light and I like the
frame fit a lot. It works very well for XC and I find it climbs as well as my old hardtail. I have
not ridden an NRS, but have not heard anyone parise its climbing.

The bike is a 2002, the frame was probably made in 2001 or early 2002, as it is Chehalis-made. If
you beleive the Borg conspiracy theory, they were better made than the post-Trek-takeover frames.

Bottom line, if the frame fits him WELL, it's a bike worth building on. But he really should make
the fit the primary decision factor.

p.s. My intitial intent was to upgrade many things, but so far I just swapped the brakes out. Might
even regress it to 8-speed, since I ride a lot of mud in winters. My only negative on the frame
so far are the internal cable routings. What *were* they thinking 8-0

Cheers Gary

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm helping a friend of mine find a new XC bike. We're considering Full Suspension but he's on a
budget so the plan is to buy as good a frame as possible with as cheap components as possible,
maybe none. This way he can upgrade components as his budget allows and end up with a really nice
bike in the end.

We have been looking at for instance a 2003 Giant NRS 3. 2002 Klein Adept Comp. NOS for about
half price.

FS is not a must have so other tips are welcome also. We have for instance considered an Easton
Whiskey Pete HT various Gary Fishers.

All of these bikes are pretty decent bikes of course and the main thing

will

Quoted message said:

be to find one that is available at the right time and the right price. And of course one that
feels right.

We are thankful for any and all tips you may have. We are buying this in Sweden but as far as I'm
concerned it's US bikes that are interesting. Yes

I

Quoted message said:

know they're all built in Taiwan. Except mine, it's built in Chehalis Wa.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Q. said:

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm helping a friend of mine find a new XC bike. We're considering Full Suspension but he's on a
budget so the plan is to buy as good a frame as possible with as cheap components as possible,
maybe none. This way he can upgrade components as his budget allows and end up with a really nice
bike in the end.

I did this, bought a FS bike, and upgraded the components.

Not worth it. Costs more in the end ... except you'll have a bike exactly how you want it.

If I could do it again, I would save my money and get a higher level of components at initial
purchase.

So are you saying to go the other way around when on a budget. Cheap frame, good components. Trade
out the frame when economy allows.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]... <snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If I could do it again, I would save my money and get a higher level of components at initial
purchase.

So are you saying to go the other way around when on a budget. Cheap

frame,

Quoted message said:

good components. Trade out the frame when economy allows.

I'd say to go somewhere in the middle. You'll pay less getting a package deal on a bike, so get some
nice mid-range bike. Most manufacturers have at least a couple different levels for a given frame.
Get the best level you can afford on the frame you like.

Matt

Per Elmsäter said:

Quoted message said:

If I could do it again, I would save my money and get a higher level of components at initial
purchase.

So are you saying to go the other way around when on a budget. Cheap frame, good components. Trade
out the frame when economy allows.

I think he's saying (and I'd agree with him) that unless you can afford a decent FS, don't bother.

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Q. said:

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm helping a friend of mine find a new XC bike. We're considering Full Suspension but he's on
a budget so the plan is to buy as good a frame as possible with as cheap components as
possible, maybe none. This way he can upgrade components as his budget allows and end up with a
really nice bike in the end.

I did this, bought a FS bike, and upgraded the components.

Not worth it. Costs more in the end ... except you'll have a bike exactly how you want it.

If I could do it again, I would save my money and get a higher level of components at initial
purchase.

So are you saying to go the other way around when on a budget. Cheap

frame,

Quoted message said:

good components. Trade out the frame when economy allows.

--
Perre

Not necessarily. I don't know what your budget is, but you just have to think about what you really
need, and what you're really going to use it for and decide on a compromise.

What I'm saying, is if you can't get what you want right away on your budget, then wait some time
and save up some money ... and you'll be able to get a complete bike with better components for the
same amount of money. You said your friend might buy a frame without parts and build up as his
budget allows but that doesn't make sense financially. It would make more sense, in my humble
opinion, to save up the money and then buy the entire bike. If he wants to do it for fun or so he
gets exactly what he wants great, which is what I did, but he'll get less for more money. It's
amazing how cheep complete bikes are when you start pricing out how much the individual components
would cost you separately.

What exactly does your friend need in a bike anyway? This is something I thought of a lot when I
bought my FS this fall, since I'm on a tight budget myself. The frame is a decent Giant built one,
and most of the components are new old stock that I got cheep ... but nothing is higher level than
Deore. I'm not 13 years old anymore, tacoing rims every week doing mad stunts. I don't need the
Saint group, or the astronomical cost. The bike is actually a little more than what I need, I just
wanted to try a FS bike since I never had one, and the right deal came up at the right time.

What do I ride most of the time? In the city, I ride an old steel frame bike with Sturmey Archer 3
speed from 1971, but the "mountain" bike I like to ride most, is a Mongoose Alta steel hardtail from
about 1991 that I made into a more cross country bike. It a nice bike to go tooling around mild
paths with the women and kids. Even on harsher trails it's not a bad bike ... personally I think FS
is overrated.

Why not look at what you can afford within the budget and what is available? If your friend forgets
the costly FS then there will be quite a few nice bikes available I'm sure ... and he can also get a
complete bike, and ride it around until the "cheaper" parts break and replace them accordingly.
However, and I'm sure many would agree, unless your friend plans on doing crazy mad stunts on his
bike, a Deore level of components will last him quite a while.

HTH,

C.Q.C.

Dude the NRS3 are good bike .The same frame as the others just cheaper parts,If it in his price
range he can get one for900$ at the right bike shop new,Ride the heck out of it and upgrade slowwly
as skill levels increse,They are good bike's ,The shock is a little soft for a 185+ rider but that
can be fixed with a change of springs,Good luck

--
J/O TrailBlazer at Large

Per Elmsäter said:

Q. said:

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm helping a friend of mine find a new XC bike. We're considering Full Suspension but he's on a
budget so the plan is to buy as good a frame as possible with as cheap components as possible,
maybe none. This way he can upgrade components as his budget allows and end up with a really
nice bike in the end.

I did this, bought a FS bike, and upgraded the components.

Not worth it. Costs more in the end ... except you'll have a bike exactly how you want it.

If I could do it again, I would save my money and get a higher level of components at initial
purchase.

So are you saying to go the other way around when on a budget. Cheap frame, good components. Trade
out the frame when economy allows.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

I agree with Q. (?) It's costly to upgrade. Depending on your friends situation, skill level, etc.,
it might be better to buy a budget bike, ride the wheels off of it, and then buy a better bike when
he can afford.

Not a bad plan really, especially if he's just getting started or he's renewing an old interest in
mtn biking. He can use the first bike as a "test bed" for the next (much more expensive) one. And if
it turns out he never rides the bike...not as much $$$ down the freedom hole (toilet).

G

Quoted message said:

FS is not a must have so other tips are welcome also. We have for instance

Check your LBS for new old frames or new old bikes. My LBS has new 2003 Giant XTC frames for $150.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Gwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I recently picked up a Klein Adept Race second hand. The components are not great (LX/XT
mostly)<snip>

LX and XT are great (for $himano). LX by itself is great. Nothing wrong with LX (again,
for $himano).

Gwood said:

I recently picked up a Klein Adept Race second hand. The components are not great (LX/XT mostly),
but they are very workable if you keep them clean and tuned.

Quoted message said:

Cheers Gary

I have to respectfully disagree Gary, LX/XT mix is pretty darn good. Hubs may give you a problem
after a while, as they have with others, but it seems to be a rare bike that has anything much
better than XT hubs stock.

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam" to reply)

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Q. said:

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm helping a friend of mine find a new XC bike. We're considering Full Suspension but he's on
a budget so the plan is to buy as good a frame as possible with as cheap components as
possible, maybe none. This way he can upgrade components as his budget allows and end up with a
really nice bike in the end.

I did this, bought a FS bike, and upgraded the components.

Not worth it. Costs more in the end ... except you'll have a bike exactly how you want it.

If I could do it again, I would save my money and get a higher level of components at initial
purchase.

So are you saying to go the other way around when on a budget. Cheap frame, good components. Trade
out the frame when economy allows.

That's what I did. My old beater, I kept adding decent parts to a derelict frame. Why replace old
[censored] with new [censored]? After all, that damn frame will problably be around after I am. So, I kept
adding good parts (keeping the old ones,) and pretty soon, I had enough parts to retire that frame
and buy a decent one. Swapped the parts, and now have a good bike with good parts, and a beater bike
with beater parts. Sorta works out, huh? 😉

But this is only because I was looking at buying a higher-end frame, and not a whole bike. Buying a
whole bike can get you really decent gear for reasonable money. But I am picky when it comes to
parts. And I could never find a whole bike that I would not have had to "upgrade" right away. And
the higher-end bikes in those lines had stuff I didn't want - like XTR, or tubeless wheelsets, or
some other damn thing that I didn't want to pay for.

In addition, buying parts over time can spread out the pain a little for those who gotta "have it
now." And might allow some fancier stuff to fly "under the radar" of a SO who may or may not
understand why that teeny-tiny part costs $150. "You can get a whole bike at Walmart for that
price." [rolls eyes]

Not that I would advocate that sort of stuff, but I do know that at least one poster is running a
Rohloff Speedhub in just such a circumstance.

Just for example, I kept track of Fuel frames on eBay for the better part of 6 months. The Al ones
went from $225-425, IIRC. The CF ones went from about $600-1000+. $225 for a FS frame ain't too
shabby. (This of course assumes that you would find the Fuel suitable for your style and volume of
riding - it's just an example.) Pre-Pacific FS Schwinns have gone for as little as $150. Frame-only,
of course.

And after you ride it into the dirt, or break it, you take off the parts and fix them to your brand
new frame. 🙂
--
Jonesy

I guess I should have qualified that statement a bit better. Didn't want to start a pro/anti Shimano
flame or a pro/anti XTR thing. I must be getting timid in my old age, after reading about the
super-trick stuff that many folks put on their rides.

And as luck would have it, the wheels are Rolfs, so any hub issues I encounter won't be
Shimano-based ;-)

"Craig Brossman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gwood wrote:

I have to respectfully disagree Gary, LX/XT mix is pretty darn good. Hubs may give you a problem
after a while, as they have with others, but it seems to be a rare bike that has anything much
better than XT hubs

stock.

Quoted message said:

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam" to reply)

Gwood said:

I guess I should have qualified that statement a bit better. Didn't want to start a pro/anti
Shimano flame or a pro/anti XTR thing. I must be getting timid in my old age, after reading about
the super-trick stuff that many folks put on their rides.

And as luck would have it, the wheels are Rolfs, so any hub issues I encounter won't be
Shimano-based ;-)

"Craig Brossman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gwood wrote:

I have to respectfully disagree Gary, LX/XT mix is pretty darn good. Hubs may give you a problem
after a while, as they have with others, but it seems to be a rare bike that has anything much
better than XT hubs

stock.

Quoted message said:

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam" to reply)

No worries Gary, I am not particularly anti-Shimano. I have had pretty good luck with most of their
stuff, though now that I think about it, all I have left on my ride that is Shimano is deraillures,
crank, bottom bracket and shift levers. Not devoid of Shimano, but far from completly either.

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam" to reply)