Nationals 2008?

* MagillaGorilla <[email hidden]> a écrit profondement:
|

| Alright, now all you beta chimps listen up and listen good. And that
| includes all you Landis-lovers in here - so put down your little
| fantasy pipedream of a successful appeal and listen because I don't
| like having to toss this Samsonite suitcase around more than once.
|
| First of all, 7 Springs is not going to be the host resort this
| year. The reason is irrelevant, but that's all you need to know.
| Second, nationals in '08 plays no role whatsoever as an "Olympic
| trials" venue, unlike in past Olympic years where winning it meant you
| had an automatic selection to the Olympics.

Nice Post

But some of the Selection Regs for the Olympic Follies, should anyone
be even interested in participating, perhaps need some revision since they
are a little heavily loaded with references to something they refer to
as "Pro Tour"

http://www.usacycling.org/forms/selection/08-SOGRoad.pdf

--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply

MagillaGorilla said:

Any one day road race is basically a lottery unless it's held on a
selective course.

People who can't sprint like to say that but field sprints are probably
more deterministic than any other race result. It only seems like a
lottery because you never win.

Bret

Mark Fennell said:

which might explain the rumor that it will
be back on the west coast in 2008.

Great news, since I live on the West Coast. I'm about to submit for
Cat1 upgrade, so I thought I might try at least once to have a go at
Nats. I don't expect to have a shot in hell, but sometimes it's cool
just to go experience something like that.

If there's any leaked locations please post.

Spokane again? Hopefully not Bakersfield 110degree smog-filled hole...

Mark Fennell said:

MagillaGorilla wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

First of all, 7 Springs is not going to be the host resort this year.

True that.

Quoted message said:

The reason is... <snip>

...because it's in the middle of nowhere, and far, far away from the
center-of-mass of good riders ...which might explain the rumor that it will
be back on the west coast in 2008.

Quoted message said:

Mark
http://marcofanelli.blogspot.com

Marky Mark,

The reason why 7 Springs is no longer hosting nationas was the choice of
7 Springs, not USAC. Also, USAC doesn't really determine where
nationals will be...a promoter must apply for the venue and USAC selects
from only those applicants. Few promoters want to take it on.

The next thing you're going to tell me is the best crit riders are in
Downer's Grove.

But the biggest farce in U.S. nationals is USAC has duped promoters into
thinking it's better to pay them money than put that same money into a
prize fund. So nationals ends up being a little or no prize money
event. What a scam.

Magilla

"Bret Wade" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MagillaGorilla said:

Any one day road race is basically a lottery unless it's held on a
selective course.

People who can't sprint like to say that but field sprints are probably
more deterministic than any other race result. It only seems like a
lottery because you never win.

Deterministic of what? Whose team can block the most effectively? Bret -
have you ever been in a sprint?

Bret Wade said:

MagillaGorilla said:

Any one day road race is basically a lottery unless it's held on a
selective course.

People who can't sprint like to say that but field sprints are probably
more deterministic than any other race result. It only seems like a
lottery because you never win.

Bret

When a race ends in a field sprint it means the course allowed too many
losers (i.e. sprinters) to get to the finish with the riders who are
actually good. Sprinting is a function of genetics, not training.
That's why the same guys win sprints. It's the same with track and field.

If you were born as Carl Lewis you'd be able to run a 10.1 in the 100
meters in a pair of worn out, unlaced Converse sneakers in 7th grade
without ever having set foot on a track in your life.

I'm suppose to respect that?

Do you know how come a falcon can fly and you can't? It's because of
genetics. The bird didn't "train" harder than you to fly and somehow
you failed to match the bird's training.

Well the same goes for sprinters - they are born with it. And then
they just sit around while all you clueless jackasses slobber all over them.

It's ridiculous and it better stop.

Eric Zabel, Cipollini, Boonen....these riders were born to sprint.
Other than that, they don't train any harder than any Cat. 2 rider in
here.

Stop worshipping them. It's all an illusion. Zabel's EPO admission
should tell you what that guy's all about, anyway.

Thanks,

Magilla

Andrew Martin said:

Mark Fennell said:

which might explain the rumor that it will
be back on the west coast in 2008.

Great news, since I live on the West Coast. I'm about to submit for
Cat1 upgrade, so I thought I might try at least once to have a go at
Nats. I don't expect to have a shot in hell, but sometimes it's cool
just to go experience something like that.

If there's any leaked locations please post.

Spokane again? Hopefully not Bakersfield 110degree smog-filled hole...

I wish I had a list of all those riders who won "nationals" and then
vanished from the sport. Nationals is meaningless. In some cases, so
is worlds.

Just ask Jeff Evanshine.

Take care,

Magilla

Tom Kunich said:

"Bret Wade" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MagillaGorilla said:

Any one day road race is basically a lottery unless it's held on a
selective course.

People who can't sprint like to say that but field sprints are
probably more deterministic than any other race result. It only seems
like a lottery because you never win.

Deterministic of what? Whose team can block the most effectively?

Deterministic in the sense that the result is repeatable. That's why you
see dominant sprinters win multiple stages in Grand Tours. You could
make a case that leadout trains are a big part of that, but blocking?

Quoted message said:

Bret - have you ever been in a sprint?

Hmmm... Back in 1998 you called me an elite sprinter:
http://tinyurl.com/3dxnz8

The truth is, I have been in many hundreds of sprints at a non-elite
level, winning over 300 races. In the mid-90's during a five year span,
I won the CO 35+ crit championship three times,was 2nd once and third
once. In those five races I was only outsprinted once by an ex-pro (HW)
who I'd never had much success against.

Bret

MagillaGorilla said:

Bret Wade said:

MagillaGorilla said:

Any one day road race is basically a lottery unless it's held on a
selective course.

People who can't sprint like to say that but field sprints are
probably more deterministic than any other race result. It only seems
like a lottery because you never win.

Bret

When a race ends in a field sprint it means the course allowed too many
losers (i.e. sprinters) to get to the finish with the riders who are
actually good. Sprinting is a function of genetics, not training.
That's why the same guys win sprints. It's the same with track and field.

If you were born as Carl Lewis you'd be able to run a 10.1 in the 100
meters in a pair of worn out, unlaced Converse sneakers in 7th grade
without ever having set foot on a track in your life.

I'm suppose to respect that?

Do you know how come a falcon can fly and you can't? It's because of
genetics. The bird didn't "train" harder than you to fly and somehow
you failed to match the bird's training.

Well the same goes for sprinters - they are born with it. And then
they just sit around while all you clueless jackasses slobber all over
them.

It's ridiculous and it better stop.

Eric Zabel, Cipollini, Boonen....these riders were born to sprint. Other
than that, they don't train any harder than any Cat. 2 rider in here.

Stop worshipping them. It's all an illusion. Zabel's EPO admission
should tell you what that guy's all about, anyway.

Thanks,

Magilla

I don't disagree with you here. I'm as disappointed as anyone when a
race ends in a field sprint. I was only disagreeing with the lottery
comment.

Bret

"Bret Wade" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

"Bret Wade" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MagillaGorilla wrote:

> Any one day road race is basically a lottery unless it's held on a
> selective course.

People who can't sprint like to say that but field sprints are probably
more deterministic than any other race result. It only seems like a
lottery because you never win.

Deterministic of what? Whose team can block the most effectively?

Deterministic in the sense that the result is repeatable. That's why you
see dominant sprinters win multiple stages in Grand Tours. You could make
a case that leadout trains are a big part of that, but blocking?

Quoted message said:

Bret - have you ever been in a sprint?

Hmmm... Back in 1998 you called me an elite sprinter:
http://tinyurl.com/3dxnz8

The truth is, I have been in many hundreds of sprints at a non-elite
level, winning over 300 races. In the mid-90's during a five year span, I
won the CO 35+ crit championship three times,was 2nd once and third once.
In those five races I was only outsprinted once by an ex-pro (HW) who I'd
never had much success against.

So you like the idea of a final sprint because you're a sprinter? This is
unfortunately almost the same thing because you don't have the competition
against you either way.

I am for a race that has a hard climb within spitting distance of the finish
line so that groups cannot run down the real climbers and the real climbers
have to be fast and in the pack until at least the start of the climb.

A winner of such a course has to be fast and able to ride in the front
group, would have to be able to climb with the best and to descend with the
best. Flat road races are fine for part of the circuit but there should be
hard climbing races as well as those who have a good mix. I think that
climbing races should end at the top of a climb and "normal" races with some
climbing in them should have a finish line close enough to the bottom of the
climb at a solo breakaway up the climb has the possibility of staying away
from the pack from the top to the finish line given a good enough climbing
speed.

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

"Bret Wade" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

"Bret Wade" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> MagillaGorilla wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> Any one day road race is basically a lottery unless it's held on a
>> selective course.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> People who can't sprint like to say that but field sprints are probably
> more deterministic than any other race result. It only seems like a
> lottery because you never win.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Deterministic of what? Whose team can block the most effectively?

Quoted message said:

Deterministic in the sense that the result is repeatable. That's why you
see dominant sprinters win multiple stages in Grand Tours. You could make
a case that leadout trains are a big part of that, but blocking?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bret - have you ever been in a sprint?

Quoted message said:

Hmmm... Back in 1998 you called me an elite sprinter:
http://tinyurl.com/3dxnz8

Quoted message said:

The truth is, I have been in many hundreds of sprints at a non-elite
level, winning over 300 races. In the mid-90's during a five year span, I
won the CO 35+ crit championship three times,was 2nd once and third once.
In those five races I was only outsprinted once by an ex-pro (HW) who I'd
never had much success against.

So you like the idea of a final sprint because you're a sprinter?

moron, maybe you should READ what bret wrote instead of trying to put
words into his mouth.

he said field sprints are not a "lottery" like you claimed and called
you on it when you questioned his experience.

you should atone for your insolence by offering to eat a pound of his
poo.

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

"Bret Wade" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich wrote:

>"Bret Wade" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>>MagillaGorilla wrote:

Quoted message said:

>>>Any one day road race is basically a lottery unless it's held on a
>>>selective course.

Quoted message said:

>>People who can't sprint like to say that but field sprints are probably
>>more deterministic than any other race result. It only seems like a
>>lottery because you never win.

Quoted message said:

>Deterministic of what? Whose team can block the most effectively?

Quoted message said:

Deterministic in the sense that the result is repeatable. That's why you
see dominant sprinters win multiple stages in Grand Tours. You could make
a case that leadout trains are a big part of that, but blocking?

Quoted message said:

>Bret - have you ever been in a sprint?

Quoted message said:

Hmmm... Back in 1998 you called me an elite sprinter:
http://tinyurl.com/3dxnz8

Quoted message said:

The truth is, I have been in many hundreds of sprints at a non-elite
level, winning over 300 races. In the mid-90's during a five year span, I
won the CO 35+ crit championship three times,was 2nd once and third once.
In those five races I was only outsprinted once by an ex-pro (HW) who I'd
never had much success against.

So you like the idea of a final sprint because you're a sprinter?

moron, maybe you should READ what bret wrote instead of trying to put
words into his mouth.

he said field sprints are not a "lottery" like you claimed and called
you on it when you questioned his experience.

you should atone for your insolence by offering to eat a pound of his
poo.

I'd already said, "I'm as disappointed as anyone when a race ends in a
field sprint" in this thread. TK's reading comprehension isn't worth a damn.

Bret

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

"Bret Wade" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> ... probably more deterministic...

Now that is a slightly amusing construction.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bret - have you ever been in a sprint?

Now that is highly amusing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/3dxnz8

Now that is Beautiful. The Halcyon Days of 12t Threads. Thanks for
that.

SLAVE of THE STATE said:

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

"Bret Wade" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>... probably more deterministic...

Now that is a slightly amusing construction.

Maybe "deterministic" means different things to us. I'm guessing that
you have some sort of political science definition in mind. Here's an
example of what it means in my industry:

http://tinyurl.com/33mvnf

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Bret - have you ever been in a sprint?

Now that is highly amusing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/3dxnz8

Now that is Beautiful. The Halcyon Days of 12t Threads. Thanks for
that.

TK is at his best when sprinting is the subject.

Bret

Bret Wade said:

SLAVE of THE STATE said:

On Oct 5, 12:26 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Bret Wade" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>... probably more deterministic...

Quoted message said:

Now that is a slightly amusing construction.

Maybe "deterministic" means different things to us.

The simplist I can put deterministic is "not random." Philo-talk will
have def's like "consequence of antecedents." "Probable" is the
language of randomness/uncertainty. They sat beside each other in the
sentence -- one modified its counterpoise. And of course, I knew
exactly what you meant. Nothing was wrong with it -- I am strangely
amused by language.

Maybe I would have said "less uncertain," and maybe I'd have put it
just like you did. Dunno. I'm no language expert, and scarcely know
how to talk to folks -- that *is* determined. Big Dog has a minor in
english, so he's the rbr expert. How low I go commenting on the most
trivial of things....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>Bret - have you ever been in a sprint?

Quoted message said:

Now that is highly amusing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://tinyurl.com/3dxnz8

Quoted message said:

Now that is Beautiful. The Halcyon Days of 12t Threads. Thanks for
that.

TK is at his best when sprinting is the subject.

Specifically, sprinting in a 12. TT'ing with an 11 too. If I can
find a ouija board, maybe I can get a hook on Kevin. I've seen his
name in some recent race results.

SLAVE of THE STATE said:

Quoted message said:

TK is at his best when sprinting is the subject.

Specifically, sprinting in a 12. TT'ing with an 11 too. If I can
find a ouija board, maybe I can get a hook on Kevin. I've seen his
name in some recent race results.

Here's an idea. We randomly choose ten bay area Cat 5's and assign five
each to be coached by KM and TK, and then compare results next spring.
Coach K vs. Koach K.

Bret

Bret Wade said:

SLAVE of THE STATE said:

Quoted message said:

TK is at his best when sprinting is the subject.

Specifically, sprinting in a 12. TT'ing with an 11 too. If I can
find a ouija board, maybe I can get a hook on Kevin. I've seen his
name in some recent race results.

Here's an idea. We randomly choose ten bay area Cat 5's and assign five
each to be coached by KM and TK, and then compare results next spring.
Coach K vs. Koach K.

Bret

Oooohhh. Then we could also see if either of the coaches would resort to
doping to win the competition.

--
Bill Asher

William Asher said:

Bret Wade said:

SLAVE of THE STATE said:

>TK is at his best when sprinting is the subject.

Specifically, sprinting in a 12. TT'ing with an 11 too. If I can
find a ouija board, maybe I can get a hook on Kevin. I've seen his
name in some recent race results.

Here's an idea. We randomly choose ten bay area Cat 5's and assign five
each to be coached by KM and TK, and then compare results next spring.
Coach K vs. Koach K.

Bret

Oooohhh. Then we could also see if either of the coaches would resort to
doping to win the competition.

This would be a rare case where there is no dope strong enough to alter
the result.

Bret

Bret Wade said:

William Asher said:

Bret Wade wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>TK is at his best when sprinting is the subject.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Specifically, sprinting in a 12. TT'ing with an 11 too. If I can
>find a ouija board, maybe I can get a hook on Kevin. I've seen his
>name in some recent race results.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Here's an idea. We randomly choose ten bay area Cat 5's and assign five
each to be coached by KM and TK, and then compare results next spring.
Coach K vs. Koach K.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bret

Quoted message said:

Oooohhh. Then we could also see if either of the coaches would resort to
doping to win the competition.

This would be a rare case where there is no dope strong enough to alter
the result.

RBR has already dope tested the coaches.