Pedal Forward Bike

On Oct 4, 9:49 am, Paul Cassel <[email hidden]>
wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

I also enjoyed that I just got on the bike with my full street clothes -
even hiking boots - and the ride felt natural. It struck me as a highly
practical form of transport because you don't need to be specially
clothed to use it.

I don't get it. How are the clothing requirements any different for a
traditional diamond frame?

Robert

"Paul Cassel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A friend of mine who is an avid bicyclist had to quit due to multiple
injuries. As a move perhaps of desperation, he bought a pedal forward RANS
bike frame and built it up with high grade components.

This is pretty much what it looks like:

http://www.ransbikes.com/07ZTour.htm

I tried it and found it to be extremely pleasant to ride. I think people
starting out riding would prefer this greatly over any conventional bike
including those 'comfort' bikes.

What I enjoyed was the seat as opposed to a saddle. He put a seat similar
to a recumbent seat which you sit on rather than straddle.

I liked the up high like a bicycle (as opposed to a 'bent) sight line but
also the upright posture which means I was looking at traffic and the
scenery without having to crane my neck up.

I also enjoyed that I just got on the bike with my full street clothes -
even hiking boots - and the ride felt natural. It struck me as a highly
practical form of transport because you don't need to be specially clothed
to use it.

I'm unsure if I'll get one, but I was very impressed. I suppose a
conventional bike like a 'racer' type would go faster, but this thing
seems to have it made for comfort and practicality.

BTW, my friend was in the middle of a casual 70 + mile ride when I
interrupted him for a demo ride. It's not like you are restricted in range
by the unusual configuration.

I'm impressed.

-paul (not a bike expert by any means).

Is this one? Looks like the seat.

I'd like to see the thing in action. Haven't found any videos with the bike
moving or going up hill.

Paul Cassel said:

A friend of mine who is an avid bicyclist had to quit due to multiple
injuries. As a move perhaps of desperation, he bought a pedal forward
RANS bike frame and built it up with high grade components.

This is pretty much what it looks like:

http://www.ransbikes.com/07ZTour.htm

I tried it and found it to be extremely pleasant to ride. I think people
starting out riding would prefer this greatly over any conventional bike
including those 'comfort' bikes.

What I enjoyed was the seat as opposed to a saddle. He put a seat
similar to a recumbent seat which you sit on rather than straddle.

I liked the up high like a bicycle (as opposed to a 'bent) sight line
but also the upright posture which means I was looking at traffic and
the scenery without having to crane my neck up.

I also enjoyed that I just got on the bike with my full street clothes -
even hiking boots - and the ride felt natural. It struck me as a highly
practical form of transport because you don't need to be specially
clothed to use it.

I'm unsure if I'll get one, but I was very impressed. I suppose a
conventional bike like a 'racer' type would go faster, but this thing
seems to have it made for comfort and practicality.

BTW, my friend was in the middle of a casual 70 + mile ride when I
interrupted him for a demo ride. It's not like you are restricted in
range by the unusual configuration.

I'm impressed.

-paul (not a bike expert by any means).

Those crank forward bikes are recumbent like enough to gather the
attention of some recumbent riders. Rans makes some very good
recumbents, I own one. They design their bikes to be pretty rider
friendly. I have never ridden one of the crank forward bikes but they
look interesting.

JAU

Quoted message said:

I don't get it. How are the clothing requirements any different for a
traditional diamond frame?

I'm sitting on a sling sort of seat which means that bicycling shorts
aren't needed. There is no chafe or compression. It's like sitting on a
'director's chair'.

Also the chainring didn't threaten to chew on my pants leg. I also felt
no need for clipless pedals / shoes. The flatties he had worked well.

-paul

Greens said:

"Paul Cassel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A friend of mine who is an avid bicyclist had to quit due to multiple
injuries. As a move perhaps of desperation, he bought a pedal forward RANS
bike frame and built it up with high grade components.

This is pretty much what it looks like:

http://www.ransbikes.com/07ZTour.htm

I tried it and found it to be extremely pleasant to ride. I think people
starting out riding would prefer this greatly over any conventional bike
including those 'comfort' bikes.

What I enjoyed was the seat as opposed to a saddle. He put a seat similar
to a recumbent seat which you sit on rather than straddle.

I liked the up high like a bicycle (as opposed to a 'bent) sight line but
also the upright posture which means I was looking at traffic and the
scenery without having to crane my neck up.

I also enjoyed that I just got on the bike with my full street clothes -
even hiking boots - and the ride felt natural. It struck me as a highly
practical form of transport because you don't need to be specially clothed
to use it.

I'm unsure if I'll get one, but I was very impressed. I suppose a
conventional bike like a 'racer' type would go faster, but this thing
seems to have it made for comfort and practicality.

BTW, my friend was in the middle of a casual 70 + mile ride when I
interrupted him for a demo ride. It's not like you are restricted in range
by the unusual configuration.

I'm impressed.

-paul (not a bike expert by any means).

Is this one? Looks like the seat.

I'd like to see the thing in action. Haven't found any videos with the bike
moving or going up hill.

Yeah, similar but his had many different details. The RANS website
claims it's stronger up hills than a conventional bike. My little run up
a minor hill supported that claim.

My run was partly down a dirt road with washboard and some sand. I felt
ok but I'd be skeptical that this would work as a real mountain bike on
tech stuff.

My friend whose bike it is, says hills are easy.

-paul

Paul Cassel said:

A friend of mine who is an avid bicyclist had to quit due to multiple
injuries. As a move perhaps of desperation, he bought a pedal forward
RANS bike frame and built it up with high grade components.

This is pretty much what it looks like:

http://www.ransbikes.com/07ZTour.htm

I tried it and found it to be extremely pleasant to ride. I think people
starting out riding would prefer this greatly over any conventional bike
including those 'comfort' bikes.

What I enjoyed was the seat as opposed to a saddle. He put a seat
similar to a recumbent seat which you sit on rather than straddle.

I liked the up high like a bicycle (as opposed to a 'bent) sight line
but also the upright posture which means I was looking at traffic and
the scenery without having to crane my neck up.

I also enjoyed that I just got on the bike with my full street clothes -
even hiking boots - and the ride felt natural. It struck me as a highly
practical form of transport because you don't need to be specially
clothed to use it.

I'm unsure if I'll get one, but I was very impressed. I suppose a
conventional bike like a 'racer' type would go faster, but this thing
seems to have it made for comfort and practicality.

BTW, my friend was in the middle of a casual 70 + mile ride when I
interrupted him for a demo ride. It's not like you are restricted in
range by the unusual configuration.

I'm impressed.

-paul (not a bike expert by any means).

I've considered building something up like that but with a cruiser sort of vibe.
Be fun to find whatever advantage there is in a semi recumbent while looking
stylish.

Ron

Quoted message said:

I don't get it. How are the clothing requirements any different for a
traditional diamond frame?

Robert

I've got a RANS Fusion.
Because the seat is a larger area, padded shorts aren't necessary, and
because the seat is noseless, lycra shorts aren't even necessary for
lots of people. There's nothing rubbing between your legs.

The Fusion is not as comfortable as a long-wheelbase recumbent (my only
other bike) but it is more maneuverable, and it is considerably more
comfortable than a conventional upright bike. It's become my
shorter-range (<25 miles or so) errand/commuting/guest-use bike. It's
normal enough that anyone used to a regular bike can get on it and go,
unlike recumbent bikes.

The Dynamik and Zenetic have steeper head angles than the Fusion and
Cruz. The inability to stand and pedal is annoying at times; it seems
like I could /almost/ do it but when I try, it just doesn't work.

The RANS bikes are currently the most performance-oriented of the
"flat-foot" bikes. A couple others less-so are the Lightfoot Surefoot
and the bikes from Day6bicycles (one frame with a couple different trim
levels). I've never tried these others, but they nearly duplicate the
same riding position--unlike bikes like the Townie, which are pretty
mild by comparison. One big difference is that the RANS bikes place the
(straight) handlebars at a fairly-high position, so you can pull hard on
them to help with pedaling. The Surefoot and Day6 use frames with rather
low-set stems and riser handlebars that you couldn't pull on as hard.

One note about the RANS bikes is that the seats and seat posts are
proprietary; you cannot easily mount regular saddles of any kind on them
at all. The Surefoot and Day6 appear to mount standard seatposts and
saddles, so you could experiment with the various ergo saddles (-and the
problems they have on regular bikes of increased hand pressure should be
considerably less severe on these bikes).

I've also read of a few cases of shorter people who liked the RANS bikes
but couldn't fit well on them. For smaller-stature people, the Lightfoot
Surefoot comes in a 20-inch wheel version.
~

On Oct 4, 1:55 pm, Paul Cassel <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Yeah, similar but his had many different details. The RANS website
claims it's stronger up hills than a conventional bike. My little run up
a minor hill supported that claim.

Doubtful. You can't stand, and the seat location requires that you
pull on the bars during forceful riding... but that use of muscles is
not efficient since your arms are not propelling the bike. It would be
better to have your CG located so that your upper body can relax on a
seated climb. It may *feel* fine to have cranks-forward... pulling on
the bars, but I don't see how it could be as fast or efficient.

Quoted message said:

My run was partly down a dirt road with washboard and some sand. I felt
ok but I'd be skeptical that this would work as a real mountain bike on
tech stuff.

A lack of ability to stand would make it a poor choice for that.

Just A User said:

...Rans makes some very good recumbents, I own one....

Who is "Rans"?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
1999 RANS Wave to Tailwind Conversion
2000 RANS Rocket

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Tom 'Johnny Sunset' Sherman said:

Just A User said:

...Rans makes some very good recumbents, I own one....

Who is "Rans"?

My bad. RANS

Just A User said:

Tom 'Johnny Sunset' Sherman said:

Just A User said:

...Rans makes some very good recumbents, I own one....

Who is "Rans"?

My bad. RANS

The Church of RANS forgives you. 😉

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
A Real Cyclist [TM] keeps at least one bicycle in the bedroom.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Just A User said:

Tom 'Johnny Sunset' Sherman said:

Just A User said:

...Rans makes some very good recumbents, I own one....

Who is "Rans"?

My bad. RANS

The Church of RANS forgives you. 😉

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
A Real Cyclist [TM] keeps at least one bicycle in the bedroom.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

RonSonic said:

I've considered building something up like that but with a cruiser sort of vibe.
Be fun to find whatever advantage there is in a semi recumbent while looking
stylish.

The little I tried a 'bent didn't impress me because of the low slung
position. I felt sunken into traffic and even more vulnerable than
usual. Where I am, most drivers are courteous to bikes, but the streets
don't really accommodate bikes well so the drivers are badly
inconvenienced by bicycles in a lot of places. This has led to some bike
deaths.

Also the extreme pedal forward of the 'bent bothered my buddy who did
the RANS bike because that position bothered his back.

To answer another question, I never tried a steep hill which would have
caused me to stand on a conventional bike. I only tried a shallow hill
finding the RANS as easy to go up it as a conventional.

Paul Cassel said:

A friend of mine who is an avid bicyclist had to quit due to multiple
injuries. As a move perhaps of desperation, he bought a pedal forward
RANS bike frame and built it up with high grade components.

This is pretty much what it looks like:

http://www.ransbikes.com/07ZTour.htm

I tried it and found it to be extremely pleasant to ride. I think people
starting out riding would prefer this greatly over any conventional bike
including those 'comfort' bikes.

What I enjoyed was the seat as opposed to a saddle. He put a seat
similar to a recumbent seat which you sit on rather than straddle.

I liked the up high like a bicycle (as opposed to a 'bent) sight line
but also the upright posture which means I was looking at traffic and
the scenery without having to crane my neck up.

I also enjoyed that I just got on the bike with my full street clothes -
even hiking boots - and the ride felt natural. It struck me as a highly
practical form of transport because you don't need to be specially
clothed to use it.

I'm unsure if I'll get one, but I was very impressed. I suppose a
conventional bike like a 'racer' type would go faster, but this thing
seems to have it made for comfort and practicality.

BTW, my friend was in the middle of a casual 70 + mile ride when I
interrupted him for a demo ride. It's not like you are restricted in
range by the unusual configuration.

I'm impressed.

If these crank-forward upright bicycles get people cycling who otherwise
would not, how can it be a bad thing, regardless of how they compare to
conventional uprights in performance? There is too much of the attitude
"if you can't ride a 'real' bicycle, do something else" - examples in
the bicycle retail industry (not to mention Usenet) are easy to
encounter. The crank-forward design "could" get a lot more people on
bicycles, but I expect that most LBS will not want to sell them.

The crank-forward geometry is certainly a better alternative to people
who deliberately mis-adjust their saddle height so they can put both
feet on the ground while seated.

As for the RANS, I have not yet tried their crank-forward bicycles yet,
but as a RANS owner for over 8 years, I am pleased with the design,
quality and service they provide.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
A Real Cyclist [TM] keeps at least one bicycle in the bedroom.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

DougC said:

Quoted message said:

I don't get it. How are the clothing requirements any different for a
traditional diamond frame?

Quoted message said:

Robert

I've got a RANS Fusion.
Because the seat is a larger area, padded shorts aren't necessary, and
because the seat is noseless, lycra shorts aren't even necessary for
lots of people. There's nothing rubbing between your legs.

The Fusion is not as comfortable as a long-wheelbase recumbent (my only
other bike) but it is more maneuverable, and it is considerably more
comfortable than a conventional upright bike. It's become my
shorter-range (<25 miles or so) errand/commuting/guest-use bike. It's
normal enough that anyone used to a regular bike can get on it and go,
unlike recumbent bikes.

The Dynamik and Zenetic have steeper head angles than the Fusion and
Cruz. The inability to stand and pedal is annoying at times; it seems
like I could /almost/ do it but when I try, it just doesn't work.

The RANS bikes are currently the most performance-oriented of the
"flat-foot" bikes. A couple others less-so are the Lightfoot Surefoot
and the bikes from Day6bicycles (one frame with a couple different trim
levels). I've never tried these others, but they nearly duplicate the
same riding position--unlike bikes like the Townie, which are pretty
mild by comparison. One big difference is that the RANS bikes place the
(straight) handlebars at a fairly-high position, so you can pull hard on
them to help with pedaling. The Surefoot and Day6 use frames with rather
low-set stems and riser handlebars that you couldn't pull on as hard.

One note about the RANS bikes is that the seats and seat posts are
proprietary; you cannot easily mount regular saddles of any kind on them
at all. The Surefoot and Day6 appear to mount standard seatposts and
saddles, so you could experiment with the various ergo saddles (-and the
problems they have on regular bikes of increased hand pressure should be
considerably less severe on these bikes).

I've also read of a few cases of shorter people who liked the RANS bikes
but couldn't fit well on them. For smaller-stature people, the Lightfoot
Surefoot comes in a 20-inch wheel version.
~

I'm not sure who convinced you guys that padded shorts are 'necessary'
for riding a traditional bike, but they sold you a bill of goods. They
most certainly are not necessary. They may be helpful and many people
may enjoy wearing them, but necessary they are not. I've ridden my
last 150,000 miles or so without wearing lycra shorts, and I'm
certainly not the only one.

This concept that special clothing is necessary to ride a bike is one
of the major roadblocks in the way of cycling being taken seriously as
a form of transportation.

Robert

RonSonic said:

Paul Cassel said:

A friend of mine who is an avid bicyclist had to quit due to multiple
injuries. As a move perhaps of desperation, he bought a pedal forward
RANS bike frame and built it up with high grade components.

This is pretty much what it looks like:

http://www.ransbikes.com/07ZTour.htm

I've considered building something up like that but with a cruiser sort of vibe.
Be fun to find whatever advantage there is in a semi recumbent while looking
stylish.

http://www.playabikes.com/detail.php?bike_id=1034
http://www.playabikes.com/detail.php?bike_id=1035

Chalo

Quoted message said:

DougC said:

Quoted message said:

I don't get it. How are the clothing requirements any different for a
traditional diamond frame?
Robert

I've got a RANS Fusion.
Because the seat is a larger area, padded shorts aren't necessary, and
because the seat is noseless, lycra shorts aren't even necessary for
lots of people. There's nothing rubbing between your legs.

The Fusion is not as comfortable as a long-wheelbase recumbent (my only
other bike) but it is more maneuverable, and it is considerably more
comfortable than a conventional upright bike. It's become my
shorter-range (<25 miles or so) errand/commuting/guest-use bike. It's
normal enough that anyone used to a regular bike can get on it and go,
unlike recumbent bikes.

The Dynamik and Zenetic have steeper head angles than the Fusion and
Cruz. The inability to stand and pedal is annoying at times; it seems
like I could /almost/ do it but when I try, it just doesn't work.

The RANS bikes are currently the most performance-oriented of the
"flat-foot" bikes. A couple others less-so are the Lightfoot Surefoot
and the bikes from Day6bicycles (one frame with a couple different trim
levels). I've never tried these others, but they nearly duplicate the
same riding position--unlike bikes like the Townie, which are pretty
mild by comparison. One big difference is that the RANS bikes place the
(straight) handlebars at a fairly-high position, so you can pull hard on
them to help with pedaling. The Surefoot and Day6 use frames with rather
low-set stems and riser handlebars that you couldn't pull on as hard.

One note about the RANS bikes is that the seats and seat posts are
proprietary; you cannot easily mount regular saddles of any kind on them
at all. The Surefoot and Day6 appear to mount standard seatposts and
saddles, so you could experiment with the various ergo saddles (-and the
problems they have on regular bikes of increased hand pressure should be
considerably less severe on these bikes).

I've also read of a few cases of shorter people who liked the RANS bikes
but couldn't fit well on them. For smaller-stature people, the Lightfoot
Surefoot comes in a 20-inch wheel version.
~

I'm not sure who convinced you guys that padded shorts are 'necessary'
for riding a traditional bike, but they sold you a bill of goods. They
most certainly are not necessary. They may be helpful and many people
may enjoy wearing them, but necessary they are not. I've ridden my
last 150,000 miles or so without wearing lycra shorts, and I'm
certainly not the only one.

This concept that special clothing is necessary to ride a bike is one
of the major roadblocks in the way of cycling being taken seriously as
a form of transportation.

You do not want to wear denim jeans on an upright bicycle when riding
any distance, since the seam in the crotch is very thick.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
A Real Cyclist [TM] keeps at least one bicycle in the bedroom.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

DougC said:

I've got a RANS Fusion.

See a urologist.

Bill "yeah, yeah...slow afternoon" S.

Tom \'Johnny Sunset\' Sherman said:

You do not want to wear denim jeans on an upright bicycle when riding
any distance, since the seam in the crotch is very thick.

Maybe you do not, but it doesn't really bother me. I've ridden a lot
of miles in jeans in the winter. ALL of my cycling is done in non-bike-
specific shorts or cut-offs, and I don't have any crotch related
problems thank you very much. I'm far more comfortable now than when I
used to wear cycling shorts all the time, that's for sure. Not
everybody loves having there boyz gripped and held by a tight lycra
garment. My boyz need to run free. And it's not like my taint is made
of titanium or anything like that.

There is a lot of myth and superstition involved in people's views on
bike shorts.

Robert