Winter Question

normZurawski said:

Also I ride off-road so I generally remain outdoors at least once a week so while my Saturday ride isn't strictly an L5 session, it gives me an opportunity to "brush up" on the high-end stuff as long as I don't lolly-gag and BS too much.

If you are riding offroad once a week (racing 'cross, mountain bike, whatever) I would just do your L5+ work on that ride and call it good. I don't know what the terrain you ride is like, but where I ride many climbs are impossible to ride up without going L5+.

normZurawski said:

...So my question/confusion is this. Over the winter, does it make sense for me to drop all L5 work and focus on raising my threshold power?...

That's what I do until late winter when I'm six to eight weeks out from my first races.

Quoted post said:

... At the same time I believe both LeMond and Dave Harris have said to keep working high-end all year round...

I don't know about Dave Harris, but IIRC Lemond advocated sprinting or L7 neuromuscular work year round. The idea is that most of us need that work and it really isn't all that taxing relative to L6 or L5 sessions. I go back and forth on this, I think it makes a lot of sense to continually train NM fitness, especially the neuro part of teaching yourself to really explode in a sprint but I'm stuck indoors most of the winter and really hate sprinting on a trainer with its squealing tires and choppy motion.

Quoted post said:

...So what does common wisdom suggest? Dropping high-end and focus on L4 blocks or mix it up with a slant towards L4? Or drop down all the way to L3 for the winter....

I like a L4, SST, L3 blend for winter base. I can't do straight L4 day after day and it doesn't build as much CTL as including some longer SST and L3 sessions. I spent nearly 7 months last winter indoors doing 2 L4 days a week and 3 to 4 days of SST and L3 work. I definitely didn't burn out on a plan like that and hit spring in great shape. My fitness just kept improving once outside and racing so it didn't lead to any premature peaks either.

I know folks have a lot of different takes on this subject, but that's my 2 cents....

-Dave

strader said:

If you are riding offroad once a week (racing 'cross, mountain bike, whatever) I would just do your L5+ work on that ride and call it good. I don't know what the terrain you ride is like, but where I ride many climbs are impossible to ride up without going L5+.

Mostly Northern New Jersey, so plenty of hills. But the nature of MTB riding tends to have plenty of short busts regardless. The people I ride with aren't generally JRA riders.

daveryanwyoming said:

I don't know about Dave Harris, but IIRC Lemond advocated sprinting or L7 neuromuscular work year round. The idea is that most of us need that work and it really isn't all that taxing relative to L6 or L5 sessions. I go back and forth on this, I think it makes a lot of sense to continually train NM fitness, especially the neuro part of teaching yourself to really explode in a sprint but I'm stuck indoors most of the winter and really hate sprinting on a trainer with its squealing tires and choppy motion.

You may be right, especially on LeMond. After I posted I wondered if I wasn't thinking L7. Regardless, this just isn't part of what I need to work on as a mountain biker.

daveryanwyoming said:

I like a L4, SST, L3 blend for winter base. I can't do straight L4 day after day and it doesn't build as much CTL as including some longer SST and L3 sessions. I spent nearly 7 months last winter indoors doing 2 L4 days a week and 3 to 4 days of SST and L3 work. I definitely didn't burn out on a plan like that and hit spring in great shape. My fitness just kept improving once outside and racing so it didn't lead to any premature peaks either.

My biggest problem is that I just don't have a lot of time during the week. I basically need to get up at 5:00 to get in what I can before I commute to the city. So an hour is about it, 90 minutes if I wake up a hair earlier and cut everything close in the morning. It adds up, and if I do that 3 times a week I lose sleep, add a ton of fatigue, and hit the weekend toasted. Thus my wondering if maxing my L4 is workable or is that on the verge of too much? I picked up the Chapple book (Frield coach) on a recommendation from a friend and they seem to be advocating more L3 and LL4, which would necessitate more saddle time, which I don't have. But if upper L4 is going to limit me in the long term...

daveryanwyoming said:

I know folks have a lot of different takes on this subject, but that's my 2 cents....

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

I recall Andy's winter maintenance workout including both L4 and L5, but there seem to be a couple approaches for winter work. One could be decribed as "maintain, then build," while the other could be "recover, then start fresh". Which approach to choose likely depends on how one feels at the end of the season.

As much as I'd like to "maintain, then build" I can never seem to avoid a big mental downslide at the end of the season. Sept - Nov are the months where I feel compelled to put the bike away and rebuild that emotional capital with the family, get the kids off to a good start at school, catch up on work, etc. I just don't feel like riding in a 'training' mode that time of year, so if I ride at all it's mostly to enjoy the cooler weather and regain some of the joy of riding. That most likely means SST riding for me, and definitely not L5 work. :eek:

frenchyge said:

I recall Andy's winter maintenance workout including both L4 and L5, but there seem to be a couple approaches for winter work. One could be decribed as "maintain, then build," while the other could be "recover, then start fresh". Which approach to choose likely depends on how one feels at the end of the season.

After numerous years of the "recovery, then start fresh" style of training, I am trying the "maintain, then build" style this season.

My CTL has dropped about 35 points from my seasonal high and has been climbing steady for the last several weeks. My ramp rate has been about 1.5 points per week... :-)

I guess we will see how I feel come March...

Jim