General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

"Bigger Is Better, Except When It's Not"

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
27 September 2007
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2 October 2007
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Prisoner at War
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  1. A propos the recent "Clydesdale Class" discussions:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/27/health/nutrition/27Best.html?em&ex=1191038400&en=2c0ab044af44142e&ei=5087%0A

    EXCERPTS

    It turns out that there are rules governed by physics to explain why
    the best distance runners look so different from the best swimmers or
    rowers and why being big is beneficial for some sports and not others.

    ....

    "I've told people: 'You're tall. Why not try swimming?'" Dr. Joyner
    said. "Anything worth doing is worth doing well and anything worth
    keeping a score is worth posting a good score."

    ....

    The rules of physics say that distance cycling and distance running
    are for small people. Rowing and swimming are for people who are big.
    The physics is so exact that when Dr. Secher tried to predict how fast
    competitive rowers could go, based only on their sizes and the weights
    of their boats, he was accurate to within 1 percent.

    At first glance, a big rower (and elite male rowers can weigh as much
    as 250 pounds) may seem to be at a disadvantage trying to row hard
    enough to push a boat through the water. But because water buoys the
    boat, weight becomes less of an issue compared with the enormous
    benefits of having strong muscles.

    Their bigger muscles allow bigger people to use more oxygen, giving
    them more power. It's like having a bigger motor, Dr. Secher said.
    Bigger muscles, with their larger cross-section, also are stronger.
    And bigger muscles can store more glycogen, their fuel for short
    intense spurts.

    The same reasoning explains why elite swimmers are big. Great male
    swimmers often are 6 feet 4 inches tall, and muscular. And because of
    the advantage that large muscles give for sprints over short
    distances, the shorter the distance an athlete must swim, the greater
    the advantage it is to be big.

    Tall swimmers also have another advantage: because swimmers are
    horizontal in the water, their long bodies give them an automatic
    edge. "It's the difference between long canoes and short canoes," Dr.
    Joyner said.

    Distance running is different. Tall people naturally have longer
    strides, but stride length, it turns out, does not determine speed.
    Running requires that you lift your body off the ground with each
    step, propelling yourself forward. The more you weigh, the harder you
    have to work to lift your body and the slower you will be.

    The best runners are small and light, with slim legs. "If you have
    large legs, you have to move a big load," Dr. Secher said. "The
    smaller you are, the better you are."

    Of course, there are a few exceptions to the scaling rules. There was
    the Australian runner Derek Clayton, who weighed 160 pounds and set a
    world marathon mark in 1969.

    And there is Tom Fleming (my coach) who won the New York City Marathon
    in 1973 and 1975. He is 6-foot-1, and while he ran his fastest
    marathon, 2 hours 12 minutes, weighing 159 pounds, he ran the Boston
    Marathon in 2 hours 14 minutes weighing 179 pounds. "I tell people
    that's the fat-man record of Boston," he said.

    The tallest elite marathoner today, Robert Cheruiyot, is 6-foot-2. But
    he weighs only 143 pounds. Most elite male marathoners, Dr. Joyner
    notes, are between 5-foot-7 and 5-foot-11 and weigh between 120 and
    140 pounds. In distance running, he said, "you just don't find many
    big people."

    The situation is more complicated for triathletes, who must run and
    cycle and swim. The size that is best for running and cycling is not
    good for swimming. Yet in general, swimmers have an advantage, Dr.
    Secher said. It is easier for a great swimmer to learn cycling and
    running than for a good runner or cyclist to learn to be a good
    swimmer. Swimming, he says, is so dependent on technique that it is
    hard to become proficient as an adult.

    The decision for high school coaches, said Hayden Smith, a cross-
    country coach at Albion College, is whether to say anything when a
    young teenager seems set on the wrong sport. He said he kept mum when
    he was coaching in high school. But, he added, the best high school
    athlete he ever coached initially went out for football. The football
    coach refused to let him join the team - he would not give the boy the
    equipment.

    "He told the kid, 'You'll be a great runner,'" Mr. Smith recalled.

    The coach was right. The boy started running and ended up one of the
    top 10 in the nation.

    No one ever told Dr. Joyner not to run. Injuries, though, finally
    forced him to look for another sport. He chose swimming, knowing that
    his size would be to his advantage.

    Dr. Joyner got a coach, worked hard on his technique, and recently
    ranked 15th swimming a mile in a United States Masters swimming
    championship race (for people over age 25) . He started too late, he
    said, to know what he might have been as a swimmer.

    But that is O.K., Dr. Joyner said. He loved running. And there is more
    to performance than simply having the right sort of body for the
    sport. There is hard work and rigorous training, and, of course, there
    is motivation.

    "I always remember something the late Bill Bowerman said at a clinic I
    attended in the late 1970s," he added, referring to the legendary
    distance running coach. "Sometimes what matters is not what dog is in
    the fight but how much fight is in the dog."

  2. Prisoner at War said:

    A propos the recent "Clydesdale Class" discussions:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/27/health/nutrition/27Best.html?em&ex=...

    EXCERPTS

    It turns out that there are rules governed by physics to explain why
    the best distance runners look so different from the best swimmers or
    rowers and why being big is beneficial for some sports and not others.

    ...

    "I've told people: 'You're tall. Why not try swimming?'" Dr. Joyner
    said. "Anything worth doing is worth doing well and anything worth
    keeping a score is worth posting a good score."

    ...

    The rules of physics say that distance cycling and distance running
    are for small people. Rowing and swimming are for people who are big.
    The physics is so exact that when Dr. Secher tried to predict how fast
    competitive rowers could go, based only on their sizes and the weights
    of their boats, he was accurate to within 1 percent.

    At first glance, a big rower (and elite male rowers can weigh as much
    as 250 pounds) may seem to be at a disadvantage trying to row hard
    enough to push a boat through the water. But because water buoys the
    boat, weight becomes less of an issue compared with the enormous
    benefits of having strong muscles.

    Their bigger muscles allow bigger people to use more oxygen, giving
    them more power. It's like having a bigger motor, Dr. Secher said.
    Bigger muscles, with their larger cross-section, also are stronger.
    And bigger muscles can store more glycogen, their fuel for short
    intense spurts.

    The same reasoning explains why elite swimmers are big. Great male
    swimmers often are 6 feet 4 inches tall, and muscular. And because of
    the advantage that large muscles give for sprints over short
    distances, the shorter the distance an athlete must swim, the greater
    the advantage it is to be big.

    Tall swimmers also have another advantage: because swimmers are
    horizontal in the water, their long bodies give them an automatic
    edge. "It's the difference between long canoes and short canoes," Dr.
    Joyner said.

    Distance running is different. Tall people naturally have longer
    strides, but stride length, it turns out, does not determine speed.
    Running requires that you lift your body off the ground with each
    step, propelling yourself forward. The more you weigh, the harder you
    have to work to lift your body and the slower you will be.

    The best runners are small and light, with slim legs. "If you have
    large legs, you have to move a big load," Dr. Secher said. "The
    smaller you are, the better you are."

    Of course, there are a few exceptions to the scaling rules. There was
    the Australian runner Derek Clayton, who weighed 160 pounds and set a
    world marathon mark in 1969.

    And there is Tom Fleming (my coach) who won the New York City Marathon
    in 1973 and 1975. He is 6-foot-1, and while he ran his fastest
    marathon, 2 hours 12 minutes, weighing 159 pounds, he ran the Boston
    Marathon in 2 hours 14 minutes weighing 179 pounds. "I tell people
    that's the fat-man record of Boston," he said.

    The tallest elite marathoner today, Robert Cheruiyot, is 6-foot-2. But
    he weighs only 143 pounds. Most elite male marathoners, Dr. Joyner
    notes, are between 5-foot-7 and 5-foot-11 and weigh between 120 and
    140 pounds. In distance running, he said, "you just don't find many
    big people."

    The situation is more complicated for triathletes, who must run and
    cycle and swim. The size that is best for running and cycling is not
    good for swimming. Yet in general, swimmers have an advantage, Dr.
    Secher said. It is easier for a great swimmer to learn cycling and
    running than for a good runner or cyclist to learn to be a good
    swimmer. Swimming, he says, is so dependent on technique that it is
    hard to become proficient as an adult.

    The decision for high school coaches, said Hayden Smith, a cross-
    country coach at Albion College, is whether to say anything when a
    young teenager seems set on the wrong sport. He said he kept mum when
    he was coaching in high school. But, he added, the best high school
    athlete he ever coached initially went out for football. The football
    coach refused to let him join the team - he would not give the boy the
    equipment.

    "He told the kid, 'You'll be a great runner,'" Mr. Smith recalled.

    The coach was right. The boy started running and ended up one of the
    top 10 in the nation.

    No one ever told Dr. Joyner not to run. Injuries, though, finally
    forced him to look for another sport. He chose swimming, knowing that
    his size would be to his advantage.

    Dr. Joyner got a coach, worked hard on his technique, and recently
    ranked 15th swimming a mile in a United States Masters swimming
    championship race (for people over age 25) . He started too late, he
    said, to know what he might have been as a swimmer.

    But that is O.K., Dr. Joyner said. He loved running. And there is more
    to performance than simply having the right sort of body for the
    sport. There is hard work and rigorous training, and, of course, there
    is motivation.

    "I always remember something the late Bill Bowerman said at a clinic I
    attended in the late 1970s," he added, referring to the legendary
    distance running coach. "Sometimes what matters is not what dog is in
    the fight but how much fight is in the dog."

    Wrong!

  3. Quoted message said:

    Wrong!

    Eh??

  4. Prisoner at War said:

    The best runners are small and light, with slim legs. "If you have
    large legs, you have to move a big load," Dr. Secher said. "The
    smaller you are, the better you are."

    Heh, I'm small, light, and have slim legs... and I'm slow as
    molasses. :-(

    jen

  5. shinypenny said:

    Heh, I'm small, light, and have slim legs... and I'm slow as
    molasses. :-(

    jen

    You sound hot baby. Tell me more...

  6. In article <[email hidden]>,

    shinypenny said:
    Quoted message said:

    The best runners are small and light, with slim legs. "If you have
    large legs, you have to move a big load," Dr. Secher said. "The
    smaller you are, the better you are."

    Heh, I'm small, light, and have slim legs... and I'm slow as
    molasses. :-(

    So if you had bigger legs, you would be slower than molasses?

    --
    Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

  7. Michelle Steiner said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    shinypenny said:
    Quoted message said:

    The best runners are small and light, with slim legs. "If you have
    large legs, you have to move a big load," Dr. Secher said. "The
    smaller you are, the better you are."

    Quoted message said:

    Heh, I'm small, light, and have slim legs... and I'm slow as
    molasses. :-(

    So if you had bigger legs, you would be slower than molasses?

    --
    Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

    How big is your penis Michelle?

  8. Michelle Steiner said:

    So if you had bigger legs, you would be slower than molasses?

    --
    Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

    LOL -- yes, according to the article.

    I would have thought that the greater muscle mass of bigger legs
    offset any weight disadvantages, but I guess not, not for distances
    longer than the standard sprints and dashes....

  9. shinypenny said:

    Heh, I'm small, light, and have slim legs... and I'm slow as
    molasses. :-(

    jen

    Well, you're a statistical outlier, then, according to the article.
    Too bad you're on the wrong side of the bell curve!

    Me, I like to run, but I should have never joined the high school
    track team...I don't know what the coach was thinking...except his
    extra $2,000 for chaperoning us, it sounds like....

  10. "shinypenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Prisoner at War said:

    The best runners are small and light, with slim legs. "If you have
    large legs, you have to move a big load," Dr. Secher said. "The
    smaller you are, the better you are."

    Heh, I'm small, light, and have slim legs... and I'm slow as
    molasses. :-(

    There are some activities in life which increase heart rate yet slow is
    good. 🙂

    -Doug

  11. On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:14:53 -0400, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    There are some activities in life which increase heart rate yet slow is
    good. 🙂

    -Doug

    Especially at my age, where even viagra is of no help anymore.

    -Doug

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

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