Solo or Pack?

Obviously, it depends on what you plan to compete in, for example for TTs you gotta ride alone. But I think it's important to get both types of riding in, pack riding for the stimulation and simulation of a race atmosphere (as well as pack riding skills), and other times you need to ride alone - some workouts are better alone, for example intervals where you shouldn't be competing with others or drafting. Also, sometimes when you need an easy ride it's easier to do it alone so you don't get sucked in to riding harder than you should.
So it depends on your training goals that particular day - no one way is best all the time.

sunnysang said:

Hey guys, i need some info

What do you guys think is better, riding with a group (pacelining) or riding by yourself facing the wind and taking in the pain in your legs? I am 16 and hope to start racing crits, stages, and TT in the spring for the first time. I started biking in May, and went from 225 to 198 lbs right now. I had a big decreese in weight when i used to ride by myself, but the past month and half when i started pacelining, i havent been losing as much as i did before. What is better for training/racing? Thanks

sunny

If you want to get a better "engine" then ride alone, no drafting (or ride with others but always pull at the front). If you want to train to ride in a race, you'll need both as both the skill and the better power-to-weight ratio are important.

Oh, and you could also just ride hills with other people and if the hills are steep enough, drafting won't make a diff.

About the only time I ride in a group is when I'm racing. Group rides if I want a bit of social interaction on days when training ain't that important.

^^^^
Ditto to Alex.

Race more, learning to race. Solo riding is where it's at. You're guaranteed to get the fitness benefit you need to get. Every group ride I've done that wasn't a race was a [censored] shoot whether or not I was going to get a workout.

I also agree with Alex but neing a newbie maybe I can give you a little more insight from the newbie point of view. (Just about 25 years older than you!)

I see my training in two parts

1) Build the aerobic engine and bike handling skills

I find riding alone will build the best aerobic engine and my bike handling skills are still not where I want it to be at all so I prefer to ride alone as I do not want to do anything stupid to someone else.

2) Learn riding in packs and pacing

This second part I have really have not tackled as much yet because I feel I have not conquered Part1 to my satisfaction. Once I feel good about 1 I will put more into 2. Do not get me wrong I do races now and in the park there is the occasional pack rides but most of the time the pack rides are either private or they are hammerfests and take away from your training. That happen a little to me today...🙁...Pride is a dangerous thing when not used at that the right time.

I have found cycling also has a big mental factor. This is something which will make you stronger not just in cycling but in life. If your personality is to give up or slow react when passed by the pack than you will fail. This is somethinng no one talks about but is very important. You have to be willing to throw it ALL ON THE LINE to a point you may feel very uncomfortable. I am going through that right now with descents. There are a few right now that no matter how many times I do it I feel I must grab for brake...this is not my skill or the bike...it is all in my head.

-JS

sunnysang said:

Hey guys, i need some info

What do you guys think is better, riding with a group (pacelining) or riding by yourself facing the wind and taking in the pain in your legs? I am 16 and hope to start racing crits, stages, and TT in the spring for the first time. I started biking in May, and went from 225 to 198 lbs right now. I had a big decreese in weight when i used to ride by myself, but the past month and half when i started pacelining, i havent been losing as much as i did before. What is better for training/racing? Thanks

sunny

sunnysang said:

Solo or Pack?

Solo to optimize training to your personal needs
Pack to learn important group riding and tactical skills

Beginning racers typically need a good dose of both while more experienced racers usually have the pack riding dialed in fairly well.

I'm with Alex, I ride alone unless I'm racing or just feel like a social outing but I don't view group rides as my best training.

-Dave

Unless you have some serious aspirations about road racing (as opposed to time trials), I think group riding is a bad idea. Riding in a pace line increases your risk of injury manyfold. It's just not worth that added risk. Also, when riding in a group, you'll seldom go the speed you want to: you'll either be going slower or faster than you want.

sunnysang said:

Solo or Pack?

Agree with the others -- both. 🙂

It's not unusual to see new riders over-extending themselves on group rides, only to be dropped when the stronger riders decide to drop the hammer. Group riding helps new riders to learn that important lesson.

frenchyge said:

Agree with the others -- both. 🙂

It's not unusual to see new riders over-extending themselves on group rides, only to be dropped when the stronger riders decide to drop the hammer. Group riding helps new riders to learn that important lesson.

That's the fastest route to being a strong rider. Ride with the big boys and overextend yourself. The problem is that you soon will get to their level and improvement will cease. That is when you need to move to where the pros train and ride with them.

And if you want the best workout for solo training - work up to 3 hour time trials. After these on your cool down heading home, you should feel like you need to call an ambulance due to the immense pain in your legs. Of course you won't do that, but be sure to eat tons when you get home. I went from 260watts FTP to 350watts FTP in 7 weeks doing this.

That's about all you need to do.

1) Ride your butt off with a real fast group.
2) 3 hour time trials.

Don't get over-analytical about training like most of these guys on this site. Get out there and do it. (This type of thought is applicable to most everything in life.)

Pendejo said:

Unless you have some serious aspirations about road racing (as opposed to time trials), I think group riding is a bad idea. Riding in a pace line increases your risk of injury manyfold. It's just not worth that added risk. Also, when riding in a group, you'll seldom go the speed you want to: you'll either be going slower or faster than you want.

I like group rides sometimes. It's fun to sit at the back and soft pedal at 30mph. But yeh, there are some idiots on the ride that I wish I wasn't riding with.

You will soon either reach their level or become frustrated, feel you can not hack it and give up. 260ftp to 350 ftp in 7 weeks ... ok

Based upon your post you will be making this a career soon enuf.

-js

velomanct said:

That's the fastest route to being a strong rider. Ride with the big boys and overextend yourself. The problem is that you soon will get to their level and improvement will cease. That is when you need to move to where the pros train and ride with them.

And if you want the best workout for solo training - work up to 3 hour time trials. After these on your cool down heading home, you should feel like you need to call an ambulance due to the immense pain in your legs. Of course you won't do that, but be sure to eat tons when you get home. I went from 260watts FTP to 350watts FTP in 7 weeks doing this.

That's about all you need to do.

1) Ride your butt off with a real fast group.
2) 3 hour time trials.

Don't get over-analytical about training like most of these guys on this site. Get out there and do it. (This type of thought is applicable to most everything in life.)

No. I'm done with endurance cycling. It's boring and too painful to be enjoyable. I don't have the motivation it requires to do what I said above anymore. Instead I ride for the fun of it, which for me entails lots of sprinting.

When I examine my power meter, i am always amazed how much more I do solo then in a group. Usually 30% higher average watts on a solo ride than in a group. But as mentioned, to avoid burnout, pick up some close paceline skills, group rides are always great.

I tend to find fast group rides (ones that have a race-paced portion towards the end) the best, as they allow you to push yourself alot harder than you would be able to on yourself. I find it much easier to work really hard when trying to chase someone down or when going for a sprint sign.

I recently have been able to start pushing really hard on my own, but the fun of having something to chase and go for seems to help.

Personally I find the chase thing fun yes but how does that really help you build anything as most of the time the chases last for a few minutes. Ok it tests your anerobic ability and mental toughness but does it really do much else...

To build an aerobic engine you need several intervals of atleast 10 minutes each, that is what will make you compete in races in the long run. I find when I get caught up in the park with the chases my workouts end with the results I was not shooting for. I feel you need focus during your workouts.

There are times when I do my workouts with intervals at my lactate threshold and suddenly here they come...I have to conecntrate not to get into the moment but keep looking down and focusing on my goal for that workout.

-JS

dsschanze said:

I tend to find fast group rides (ones that have a race-paced portion towards the end) the best, as they allow you to push yourself alot harder than you would be able to on yourself. I find it much easier to work really hard when trying to chase someone down or when going for a sprint sign.

I recently have been able to start pushing really hard on my own, but the fun of having something to chase and go for seems to help.

I do agree though...there is no substitute for good old intervals. Those are what have helped me build up and keep building up a much better aerobic engine than I had when I started riding.

jsirabella said:

Personally I find the chase thing fun yes but how does that really help you build anything as most of the time the chases last for a few minutes. Ok it tests your anerobic ability and mental toughness but does it really do much else...

To build an aerobic engine you need several intervals of atleast 10 minutes each, that is what will make you compete in races in the long run. I find when I get caught up in the park with the chases my workouts end with the results I was not shooting for. I feel you need focus during your workouts.

There are times when I do my workouts with intervals at my lactate threshold and suddenly here they come...I have to conecntrate not to get into the moment but keep looking down and focusing on my goal for that workout.

-JS

Both if i go only on my own i will go grazy

jsirabella said:

Personally I find the chase thing fun yes but how does that really help you build anything as most of the time the chases last for a few minutes. Ok it tests your anerobic ability and mental toughness but does it really do much else...

To build an aerobic engine you need several intervals of atleast 10 minutes each, that is what will make you compete in races in the long run. I find when I get caught up in the park with the chases my workouts end with the results I was not shooting for. I feel you need focus during your workouts.

There are times when I do my workouts with intervals at my lactate threshold and suddenly here they come...I have to conecntrate not to get into the moment but keep looking down and focusing on my goal for that workout.

-JS

I like doing at least one group ride a week. I am fortunate that there is a ride nearby on Saturday and Sunday which draws 80-120 riders every time out.

It's not the most efficient use of training time, but I don't know why anybody would be reluctant to call these "training" rides. Today, for instance, I rode for 3:41, had an IF of 0.806, and racked up a 237 TSS.

My NP for the peak 60 min was 348 (FTP is around 345)
Peak 20 min 334 AP, 370 NP
Peak 5 min 395 w, 421 NP

With a group this big, it's as hard as you want to make it. My only beef is that it takes ~1 hr to get out of the city limits. 🙁

Good article here:
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=5336