General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Larry Hoover's Eskimo diet notions.

Started by Nick · · Last activity · 4 posts · 1,152 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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1 December 2003
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13 December 2003
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Nick
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  1. I'm not sure what your point was in that Greenland Eskimo post, so I'll state as clearly as possible
    what mine is: do not think that you should eat huge amounts of omega 3 PUFAs in order to avoid a
    heart attack. It could be the case that Eskimos do have specific genetic defects that are
    significant when assessing stroke risk, but my point (and that of many scientists, including the
    ones who wrote the study I quoted that said exactly the same thing) is that the evidence on Eskimos
    is just not strong enough to really say much of anything when with regard to what an American, for
    example, might decide to eat as dietary staple foods. The last study is interesting, in that it
    found high levels of omega 3s and MUFAs in the adipose tissue. The big problem for most Americans is
    the omega 6, arachidonic acid, in adipose (and other) tissue, so it may be that this does protect
    them from certain "chronic diseases." However, if one eats loads of omega 3 PUFAs and little
    fruit/vegetables (as Eskimos did on their "traditional" diets), he/she is asking for a whole lot of
    free radical damage - and that is basic biochemistry. Actually, one scientists tried what he
    surmised was a such a diet, that is, very high in omega 3s but with little or no antioxidant-rich
    foods, and his blood test revealed very high levels of peroxidation products. See Sinclair, H.,
    Prog. Lipid Res. 25: 667-72, "History of EFA & their prostanoids: some personal reminiscences." As
    I've said before, if you avoid all but trace amounts of PUFAs, your body will produce the MUFA known
    as the Mead acid, which will be used to create free radicals to use when needed. If you've got
    arachidonic acid in place of the Mead acid, your body will be hypersensitive to all kinds of minor
    stresses, and that can lead to atheroscelerotic plaques, autoimmune disease, cancer, inflammatory
    disorders, etc. The evidence is there, and it's not getting out through the media outlets (which is
    the reason I post here - for those with open minds), which instead are giving plenty of airtime to
    the "saturated fat is bad" message, and that's actually funny, because none of the "experts" even
    define what "saturated fat" is. Is it lard, which is 60% or more unsaturated? For the "experts," it
    seems to be, from what they say, but then what isn't "saturated fat," if you have that
    classification in mind?

    My mind is open, unlike so many others posting here. It seems as though the Eskimos should indeed
    derive some benefit from low arachidonic acid levels in their tissues. But the evidence just doesn't
    cut it, at least not yet. The basic biochemistry is much stronger, as well as the experiments done
    with arachidonic acid and Mead acid (as well as many others, of course). It is basic biochemistry
    that the Eskimo diet is likely to be anti-inflammatory, and many "chronic diseases" involve the
    inflammatory process. But if we follow the basic biochemistry line of thinking, there's no way the
    kind of free radicals generated on such a diet can be "healthy," though of course that word never
    gets defined either, and it seems as though one is not likely to live beyond the age of about 50 (if
    you're lucky) on such a diet, though few Westerners are going to eat a diet with omega 3 PUFAs as
    staples anyway. However, people taking several fish oil or flax oil pills each day are asking for
    trouble - if you want to avoid inflammation, just cut back on the omega 6 PUFAs, but look up your
    foods on the USDA database or some other source so that you have some idea of the fatty acids in the
    foods you are eating. With the current "Atkins Diet" fad, many people "doing it" may be eating very
    large amounts of PUFAs (and most probably don't even know it), as well as iron, oxidized
    cholesterol, damaged proteins, etc. Almost all the studies say things like "this may be." so at this
    point in time, you've got to put the pieces together for yourself to some degree. Bruce Fife did a
    fairly good job in his book "Saturated fat may save your life," though I think he derived many of
    his ideas from Ray Peat, as Lita Lee seems to as well. Then there's Mary Enig's work. They are
    people who sometimes write for non-professionals, unlike Braganza, Spiteller, Parassasi, and so many
    others. Just read some studies in Free Radical Biology & Medicine or Free Radical Research to start,
    though the evidence against free radicals as the "upstream event" in "chronic illness" is
    overwhelming, and supported by studies in just about every biological or medical journal. I am not
    claiming to be the first or the best - I'm just trying to get the word out that the Mead acid allows
    the body to make all the free radicals you need (that arachidonic acid do when too many omega 6s are
    consumed) but are much more stable and much less dangerous, and you can only replace arachidonic
    acid with Mead acid by eating trace amounts of PUFAs, as well as how to cook to avoid oxidized
    cholesterol (and doe/Tom has made the dangers of excess iron very clear on this newsgroup, though it
    seems that iron overload may be a downstream event, unless levels are outrageously high). Now if
    you, Larry, want to insist that free radicals are great, that's fine with me, but I've read the
    studies, and it's very clear that a whole lot of scientists have demonstrated how dangerous free
    radical damage can be (note that there's a difference between free radical activity and free radical
    damage, a distinction you don't seem to be able to make, for some reason).

  2. Once upon a time, our fellow nick rambled on about "Larry Hoover's Eskimo diet notions.." Our
    champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not sure what your point was in that Greenland Eskimo post,

    Could be because you didn't quote?

    How do you expect me to read the Mover's drivel, if you don't quote what he wrote???

    Just thought that you might want to know. 🙂

  3. "nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not sure what your point was in that Greenland Eskimo post,

    It was pretty obvious what my points were, if you can read....

    Quoted message said:

    It could be the case that Eskimos do have specific genetic defects that are


    significant

    Quoted message said:

    when assessing stroke risk...

    That was one of my points...and it may entirely account for all the increased susceptibilty to
    haemorrhagic stroke.

    Quoted message said:

    ...but my point is... the evidence on Eskimos is just not strong enough


    to really

    Quoted message said:

    say much of anything when with regard to what an American, for example, might decide to eat as
    dietary staple foods.

    No that was my point, not yours.... I've been discrediting your generalizations based on the "Eskimo
    evidence" all along, twit.

    Considering Americans do not eat muktuk (spelled in various ways, but that is sea mammal skin, often
    from beluga whales), which is an extraordinary source of selenium, and are not as exposed to
    mercury....there are too many variables apart from the genetic ones and PUFA ones to conclude a damn
    thing from studying Greenland Eskimos. You can generate hypotheses, but then you have to take those
    over to the e.g. American population to see what effect dietary manipulations may have on non-Eskimo
    non-Greenlanders.

    And, with respect to your ramblings about arichidonic acid/omega-6 in North American diets, again,
    that has been my point all along.....too much omega-6, deficient in omega-3.

    I'm glad you're finally getting it.

  4. Larry Hoover said:

    And, with respect to your ramblings about arichidonic acid/omega-6 in North American diets, again,
    that has been my point all along.....too much omega-6, deficient in omega-3.

    The key of decreasing omega-6/omega-3 ratio is that it will involve an increased inhibition of the
    delta-5 desaturase, that will in fact increase the 20:3(DHGLA) to 20:4(arachidonate) ratio and thus
    increase the amount of PGH1 and PGH3 on behalf of PGH2, and thus less PGE2/PGF2alfa,PGI2,TXA2 etc.
    And increase PGI3 and ineffective TXA's, plus PGE1 and PGE3 which are working as antidotes on PGE2.
    There is a ying/yang balance out there to say it that way. Nick seems to forget that, Free radicals
    are mostly only of concern when you are totally devoid of copper, manganese, selenium and Vit E and
    vit C in diet. But the higher omega-6 to omega-3 ratio, the demands on these ingredients in diet are
    rising, in some skyrocking manner, Mead acid do no good at all. Except for being inert, almost. When
    you have a wound, you will have it for years if cell membranes only contain Mead acid. Because no
    signals are formed to signal need for repair.

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