Advice on winter training

ecandl said:

I completed my first season of racing (2 crits, 1 RR, 1 hillclimb). I have a lot to learn about racing but was able to stick with the pack and was involved in final sprints. I do not use power but I improved my 3 min and 70 min hillclimbs which I use to test myself by 20%. I was able to stick with the group on a fast group ride after 7 tries.

Now that I don't have a race for 7 months, what do I do?

1.Do you guys take time off? Hard to get motivated without any races coming up soon.

2. A lot of my training is indoors due to lack of light and cold. (I already ride in the dark and cold as much as I want) Should I invest in spinervals?

3. Which areas should I focus on? 2x20s? Long rides on trainer🙁 ? Sprints?

4. Anyone crosstrain? ie soccer/tennis.

Help and ideas are appreciated. I plan on racing more next year (8 or so races, 30-150min duration)

have you considered coaching? it may seem counter-intuitive but this time of year is when a coach could really get a plan set-up to have you in fine form come spring.

If that isn't feasible ... then it depends. it's hard for the 'gallery' to properly answer your questions. taking time off is generally a good idea - especially if you feel mentally or physically burnt. however, taking TOO much time off isn't!

Personally, I like to focus on 'winter' workouts which I can complete in 1.5-2.0 hrs (MAX) with a heavy focus on SST/threshold work. The intensity I work at depends on the time of year, how I'm feeling and how I have been progressing lately (or not). I'm located in Eastern Canada and do much of my structured work nearly year-round on the Computrainer.

Spinervals: NO. Carmichael: NO.

Cross-training -well as opposed to doing nothing it's a benefit but nothing replaces cycling-specific training.

All IMHO. I'd definitely consider getting a solid coaching plan.

rmur17 said:

have you considered coaching? it may seem counter-intuitive but this time of year is when a coach could really get a plan set-up to have you in fine form come spring.

If that isn't feasible ... then it depends. it's hard for the 'gallery' to properly answer your questions. taking time off is generally a good idea - especially if you feel mentally or physically burnt. however, taking TOO much time off isn't!

Personally, I like to focus on 'winter' workouts which I can complete in 1.5-2.0 hrs (MAX) with a heavy focus on SST/threshold work. The intensity I work at depends on the time of year, how I'm feeling and how I have been progressing lately (or not). I'm located in Eastern Canada and do much of my structured work nearly year-round on the Computrainer.

Spinervals: NO. Carmichael: NO.

Cross-training -well as opposed to doing nothing it's a benefit but nothing replaces cycling-specific training.

All IMHO. I'd definitely consider getting a solid coaching plan.

Short of getting a coach, what can I do?

What is so bad about spinervals? Looks like they would be good for motivation.

Anyone else have winter training ideas?

You did 4 races the whole season???
Some guys do that much in a week.

I say forget the programs and head out to the local groups and start learning.
You'll get all the fitness you need to compete, but more important, you will learn technique, tactics, and eventually have a better grasp on what bike racing is about.

Skills and drills first!!!

YMCA said:

You did 4 races the whole season???
Some guys do that much in a week.

I say forget the programs and head out to the local groups and start learning.
You'll get all the fitness you need to compete, but more important, you will learn technique, tactics, and eventually have a better grasp on what bike racing is about.

Skills and drills first!!!

I have been riding once a week with a strong group. I realize the importance of group riding to gain a comfort level as well as improving skill ie. not causing a crash. Can you give examples of cycling drills?

My big goal for next year is 8 races, have 4 kids, coach soccer, etc.

You didn't mention how long you've been riding (or I may have overlooked it), but if you're relatively new to it, doing some off-road riding this winter would be beneficial for your skills.

ecandl said:

Short of getting a coach, what can I do?

What is so bad about spinervals? Looks like they would be good for motivation.

Anyone else have winter training ideas?

If you live where there is good snow cover, then think about Cross Country Skiing as a part of your off-season training (in the past, you could use public golf courses & parks) ... BUT, don't go out there and plod along at only 2mph ... if you're going to plod along as if you were on snowshoes, then get/use a pair of snowshoes -- snowshoes come in MANY sizes/lengths, now.

If you don't have to contend with snow, then get some winter gear & ride outside.

alfeng said:

BUT, don't go out there and plod along at only 2mph ...

What if that's only as fast you can go? 🙂

Animator said:

You didn't mention how long you've been riding (or I may have overlooked it), but if you're relatively new to it, doing some off-road riding this winter would be beneficial for your skills.

Before doing triathlons the last few years, I used to do more mtn. biking. I have only been racing this season and started bike only training 9 months ago. I actually got out on a mtn bike this past weekend. I had forgotten how slow mtn. biking is, especially uphill. I love the smooth speed of the road. I'll have to give mtn. biking a few more tries though.

Looks like you have a lot of backround with triathlons. What helped me when I was done with my first year is just getting out on the bike, sometimes people over think the training they need. All you need to do is do what feels right, but when you are this young in cycling just getting on the bike is beneficial and also some group rides will help you out too.

ecandl said:

Before doing triathlons the last few years, I used to do more mtn. biking. I have only been racing this season and started bike only training 9 months ago. I actually got out on a mtn bike this past weekend. I had forgotten how slow mtn. biking is, especially uphill. I love the smooth speed of the road. I'll have to give mtn. biking a few more tries though.

ecandl said:

What is so bad about spinervals? Looks like they would be good for motivation.

Most people tend to think that these video's are too hard for off season workouts and the 'easy endurance' ones aren't long enough. Personally, I do them as a change of pace for training or when my wife wants to do a video. It's the only time she can keep up with me so she likes it. But I don't do them as a part of my regular training plan.

thats interesting, i watch "other" kinds of videos with my wife. helps me keep it up WINK:eek:

I would suggest just getting on the bike specially during the winter months. You need a solid 2 months of base. I usually take november off and get right to base on december first. Also u dont just want to ride slow base mileage, sometimes it is confusing because people call it endurance and that is sort of true you do need endurance but that is if you want to be riding grandpa slow centuries. Dont be affraid to get out of that saddle everyonce and awhile to keep your legs fresh and let them know that your a racer. I wouldnt take that as scheduling some advanced intervals leave that for the spring time.

I thought common wisdom was to do at least 1 high-end session per week year around?

normZurawski said:

I thought common wisdom was to do at least 1 high-end session per week year around?

Can someone post their winter schedule? How many days per week? How many hours? Intensity of those hours? If I am in my garage on my trainer, I can't stand the thought of noodling along for 2 hours. If I am on my bike, I want to get a workout and get off my bike. The shorter the ride, the longer I can sleep in.

ecandl said:

Can someone post their winter schedule? How many days per week? How many hours? Intensity of those hours? ...

Copying someone else's schedule isn't the best idea. How do your goals differ, your lifestyle, do you have a job, a family, other sports you participate in, what's your relative experience level?

Having said that, your instincts to avoid plodding along on the trainer are good. Trainer time isn't that much fun so get the most out of it by working SST and L4 with 20 to 45 minute or longer efforts. Blocking them up into 2x20s or 2x30s or other variations is a bit easier mentally but it's time in level that counts.

Last winter my indoor schedule looked something like:

M - rest off the bike(or easy XC skiing)
T - 2x20 to 3x20(later in the winter) L4
W - 2x30 to 2x45 SST
Th - 2x20 L4 or ski skating
Fr. - off the bike rest
Sa. 2x20 or ski skating
Su. 2x45 Tempo/SST or skiing(ski skating or backcountry)

That worked pretty well for me, but I'd like to bring both my FTP and CTL a bit higher during winter training this year and I've started a new job with a new schedule so I'll make some changes accordingly.

FWIW, I never could have done that much indoor training without a power meter or at least a trainer with a known power curve like the Kurt Kinetics. I've tried indoor training in past years and struggled with maintaining focus and interest. The PM keeps me engaged and lets me both challenge my previous workouts and see progress in an objective way. That day to day and week to week feedback from the PM was incredibly motivating. By midwinter I was psyched for my L4 days to see if I could ride a bit higher power or extend my repeats a bit. That feedback was crucial in terms of getting on the trainer as much as I did.

Hope that helps,
-Dave

daveryanwyoming said:

Having said that, your instincts to avoid plodding along on the trainer are good. Trainer time isn't that much fun so get the most out of it by working SST and L4 with 20 to 45 minute or longer efforts. Blocking them up into 2x20s or 2x30s or other variations is a bit easier mentally but it's time in level that counts.

Last winter my indoor schedule looked something like:

M - rest off the bike(or easy XC skiing)
T - 2x20 to 3x20(later in the winter) L4
W - 2x30 to 2x45 SST
Th - 2x20 L4 or ski skating
Fr. - off the bike rest
Sa. 2x20 or ski skating
Su. 2x45 Tempo/SST or skiing(ski skating or backcountry)

That worked pretty well for me, but I'd like to bring both my FTP and CTL a bit higher during winter training this year and I've started a new job with a new schedule so I'll make some changes accordingly.

FWIW, I never could have done that much indoor training without a power meter or at least a trainer with a known power curve like the Kurt Kinetics. I've tried indoor training in past years and struggled with maintaining focus and interest. The PM keeps me engaged and lets me both challenge my previous workouts and see progress in an objective way. That day to day and week to week feedback from the PM was incredibly motivating. By midwinter I was psyched for my L4 days to see if I could ride a bit higher power or extend my repeats a bit. That feedback was crucial in terms of getting on the trainer as much as I did.

Hope that helps,
-Dave

Thanks Dave - great post. I purchased a Kurt Kinetic last winter and it was good to measure improvements and to be able to test myself. I realize everyone is at a different level. Your winter schedule is harder than anything I have done up to this point but I want to continue my improvement. Now that I am closer to getting on the trainer (darkness and cold) I am starting to remember that at the end of last winter, I was hesitant to venture off the trainer and lose the feedback from my KK. A power meter would be great but I just can't/won't pay for one at this point. Your schedule definitely gives me some good ideas. I will have to study up on power training to get the most out of these winter months - maybe I will be ready for a power meter by spring.

Just to throw more out there, some people will do L5 and L6 stuff on the trainer during the winer as well. As Dave says, it really depends on your goals. My races are off-road XC races and I was short on some of the higher end stuff that I probably needed. I also find the L5/L6 stuff more difficlut but easier to do, if that makes any sense. Harder effort, of couse. But easier to throw the leg up and over when it's cold & dark out.

Having said that I'm not sure what my winter will look like this year. I'm probably going to gravitate towards a Ross structure of 4 on, 3 off for 2008. I may start that with various combinations of efforts to see how it all fares.

your winter plan depends on when your first races are and also, your fitness level. I like to take 6 weeks COMPLETLEY off the bike (september-october 15 ish) In this time, I go to the gym only 1 or two times a week. And try and do a lot of EPIC stuff. For instance I did an 8 hour hike the other day. I try and go running and do a lot of core, and keep in generaly good shape, and refresh my mind. By the end of 6 weeks, I hate running more than anything, and cant wait to bike again. this year my schedule looks like this (designed by my coach and I)

First Race (first weekend in march)
(all 6 days a week and all under 80%)
My first ride is only 1 hour long. For the first 3 weeks I add 20min each week to ride length and get to 2 hours by the third week. Then I add 10 min each week until I get up to 4 hours per ride (early-mid januarry). (there are also some days scheduled to take off and even a week here and there) In mid january I am at 20-25 hours a week. The plan is to throw in some longer easier intervals around 20 min mid january two or three times a week. Febuary will have some intense intervals in it. And then come march Race weekend provide intervals (tt, rr, crit) almost every weekend, and maybe an easy mid week interval, and lots of base miles.

the winter is perfect for gettin base miles. As long as you start early enough. Starting to late means that you have to start off to hard, if you want to be prepared for your first races. Base miles are like putting money in the bank.

Nordic skiing, running, and lifting are all excelent ways to get in shape, but there is no substitute for time on the bike. NONE

I live in vermont, so I am well aware of how [censored] the winters can be. I try and ride outside everyday the roads are dry. And 4 hour rides in february are pretty intense when its only 10 degrees outside. That being said, i did ride close to 3500 km on the trainer and rollers last winter.

ecandl said:

Can someone post their winter schedule? How many days per week? How many hours? Intensity of those hours? If I am in my garage on my trainer, I can't stand the thought of noodling along for 2 hours. If I am on my bike, I want to get a workout and get off my bike. The shorter the ride, the longer I can sleep in.

Depends what week I'm in, what my goals are, how far away racing is, and how i'm feeling.

Sun: 2x20min
Mon: 1x2hr
Tues: 1hr recovery
Wed: 1x2hr or 2x1.5hr
Thur: 1x2hr or 2x1.5hr (one in morning, one at night)
Fri: 2x20min
Sat: off

That should give me
~10-11hrs/wk if i'm lucky. I'll try building up to 14-15hrs/wk by my 6th-7th week. I'm starting in november, collegiate starts at the end of February, so I'll use those races as intensity rides. Eventually, I'll be on the bike 5-6days/wk for 2-4hrs/day. If everything goes as planned, right as I start burning out, the weather will turn nice enough to ride outside (35deg F).