Keeping water bottle cold

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

It seems absurdly simple. Why it works is up to someone here to tell me. So
much for the idea you need to buy a special insulated bottle to keep things
cold!

Congrats, you've discovered bum tech! Next time ya get a 40oz, have
'em double bag it, and you get the same effect.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

It seems absurdly simple. Why it works is up to someone here to tell me. So
much for the idea you need to buy a special insulated bottle to keep things
cold!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooling>

It's the same effect as wrapping your neck in a wet cloth [1]; as the
water in the cloth evaporates, it takes heat with it. You should be able to
wrap your bottles in any wet cloth, baggie or no, and see the same effect.

[1] For that matter, it's the same principle that makes sweating effective.

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ [email hidden]
(_)/ (_)

landotter said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

It seems absurdly simple. Why it works is up to someone here to tell me. So
much for the idea you need to buy a special insulated bottle to keep things
cold!

Congrats, you've discovered bum tech! Next time ya get a 40oz, have
'em double bag it, and you get the same effect.

Are you speaking from first hand experience? J.K.

But that is an interesting trick I will have to try that next long ride.
Even short rides here and the frozen bottles melt in just a bit. The
last time I tried to freeze a bottle I think it lasted about an hour or so.

Just A User said:

landotter said:

On Sep 10, 1:37 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It seems absurdly simple. Why it works is up to someone here to tell me. So
much for the idea you need to buy a special insulated bottle to keep things
cold!

Quoted message said:

Congrats, you've discovered bum tech! Next time ya get a 40oz, have
'em double bag it, and you get the same effect.

Are you speaking from first hand experience? J.K.

But that is an interesting trick I will have to try that next long ride.
Even short rides here and the frozen bottles melt in just a bit. The
last time I tried to freeze a bottle I think it lasted about an hour or so.

You bring 40's on your long rides? Switch to nips bro, all that
weight in glass is silly. :-P

Seriously, good looks Mike, I'll try that out.

Kristian M Zoerhoff said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

It seems absurdly simple. Why it works is up to someone here to tell me. So
much for the idea you need to buy a special insulated bottle to keep things
cold!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooling>

It's the same effect as wrapping your neck in a wet cloth [1]; as the
water in the cloth evaporates, it takes heat with it. You should be able to
wrap your bottles in any wet cloth, baggie or no, and see the same effect.

In my mental image, the paper towels were dry, and therefore, in
conjunction with the bag, trapping air (a good insulator). If you made
them wet there'd be a continuous conductive layer of water between the
bottle and the inside of the plastic bag. The bag would stop water
evaporating, and the whole thing would warm up.

Quoted message said:

Just A User said:

landotter said:

On Sep 10, 1:37 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> It seems absurdly simple. Why it works is up to someone here to tell me. So
> much for the idea you need to buy a special insulated bottle to keep things
> cold!
Congrats, you've discovered bum tech! Next time ya get a 40oz, have
'em double bag it, and you get the same effect.

Are you speaking from first hand experience? J.K.

But that is an interesting trick I will have to try that next long ride.
Even short rides here and the frozen bottles melt in just a bit. The
last time I tried to freeze a bottle I think it lasted about an hour or so.

You bring 40's on your long rides? Switch to nips bro, all that
weight in glass is silly. :-P

Seriously, good looks Mike, I'll try that out.

No I usually do the vodka OJ thing on my rides. Mix it right up in the
bottles works pretty well. But seriously I have seen many bikes with
beer can wedged into bottle cages.

Just A User said:

Quoted message said:

Just A User said:

landotter wrote:
> On Sep 10, 1:37 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> It seems absurdly simple. Why it works is up to someone here to tell me. So
>> much for the idea you need to buy a special insulated bottle to keep things
>> cold!
> Congrats, you've discovered bum tech! Next time ya get a 40oz, have
> 'em double bag it, and you get the same effect.
Are you speaking from first hand experience? J.K.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But that is an interesting trick I will have to try that next long ride.
Even short rides here and the frozen bottles melt in just a bit. The
last time I tried to freeze a bottle I think it lasted about an hour or so.

Quoted message said:

You bring 40's on your long rides? Switch to nips bro, all that
weight in glass is silly. :-P

Like ceramic is any better?
http://www.tackytreasures.com/tackyhtml/tackyimages/breastmug-3397.jpg

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Seriously, good looks Mike, I'll try that out.

No I usually do the vodka OJ thing on my rides. Mix it right up in the
bottles works pretty well. But seriously I have seen many bikes with
beer can wedged into bottle cages.

I want one of those handlebar gimbal mounts with the foamie cozy! Add
beer and a handful of peanuts, and you got carbs, and electrolytes!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Congrats, you've discovered bum tech! Next time ya get a 40oz, have
'em double bag it, and you get the same effect.

That's what Al Gore does on his 1970's era Gulfstream! LOL

I read about this many years ago.The paper towel would get wet from the
bottles sweating and some how this helps insulate them'
In a MT Bike mag one time it said to do the same with a piece of wet cloth
around a water bottle the evaporation makes the inside cooler.
Can't remember where I read it.

--
J/O TrailBlazer V P At Large !!

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

I discovered something entirely by accident that might be of use to others.
How to keep a frozen water bottle... frozen.

Rocket science it isn't.

When riding with my son, I carry quite a bit of extra water, in a rack-top
bag. What I'll often do is freeze a couple of bottles overnight, but they
would thaw out very quickly. But another time I had to use my camera
backpack, and to make sure the bottle didn't drip into the bag (Cytomax
wouldn't be good for camera gear), I wrapped the bottles with no more than
two layers of paper towels, and put them into a gallon-sized sealed baggie.

Amazingly, 7 hours later and the contents were still 80-90% frozen. Tried
the same experiment in the rack top bag, same thing again. Nearly totally
frozen bottles at the end of a long ride (yeah, sounds like I brought too
much stuff to drink!).

I haven't yet tried just wrapping one up and putting it into a regular
bottle cage, so don't know yet if that would work as well. Could be that
there's some insulative qualities to the bags which makes the difference
(even though bottles without any paper towels wrapped around them and placed
into a baggie thawed out very quickly). The easiest experiment might be to
just prepare one and leave it on the counter at home and see what happens in
a day.

It seems absurdly simple. Why it works is up to someone here to tell me. So
much for the idea you need to buy a special insulated bottle to keep things
cold!

<old roadie tale alert>

About 15 years ago when we still had proper winters in the English
Midlands, the club run went to a cafe/old manor house out in the sticks.
It was well below zero all the way (a lung-burning -10 deg C), and
when we got there there was a roaring fire. Everyone removed their
shoes and put them in front of the fire to warm up, along with hats and
gloves.

After the tea and cake, we reluctantly went outside again to find that
all our water bottles had frozen solid. It had probably only been the
motion that had stopped them freezing before.

I had my only ever spoke failure (albeit on a cheap machine built wheel)
5 miles from home, and another rider broke a crank. I wonder if the
cold had any hand in it.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

I discovered something entirely by accident that might be of use to others.
How to keep a frozen water bottle... frozen.

Rocket science it isn't.

When riding with my son, I carry quite a bit of extra water, in a rack-top
bag. What I'll often do is freeze a couple of bottles overnight, but they
would thaw out very quickly. But another time I had to use my camera
backpack, and to make sure the bottle didn't drip into the bag (Cytomax
wouldn't be good for camera gear), I wrapped the bottles with no more than
two layers of paper towels, and put them into a gallon-sized sealed baggie.

Amazingly, 7 hours later and the contents were still 80-90% frozen. Tried
the same experiment in the rack top bag, same thing again. Nearly totally
frozen bottles at the end of a long ride (yeah, sounds like I brought too
much stuff to drink!).

I haven't yet tried just wrapping one up and putting it into a regular
bottle cage, so don't know yet if that would work as well. Could be that
there's some insulative qualities to the bags which makes the difference
(even though bottles without any paper towels wrapped around them and placed
into a baggie thawed out very quickly). The easiest experiment might be to
just prepare one and leave it on the counter at home and see what happens in
a day.

It seems absurdly simple. Why it works is up to someone here to tell me. So
much for the idea you need to buy a special insulated bottle to keep things
cold!

Three principle modes of heat transfer

* Convection
* Conduction
* Radiation

This is is in order of descending rate of heat transfer
in a configuration that optimizes the mode. For instance
radiation is optimized in the high desert at night where
the heat can radiate directly into interstellar space.
(This is also why frost can form when the air temperature
is above the freezing point of water. The dew is coupled
to a heat bath well below freezing: outer space.)

Keeping the bottles out of the wind is the winner, as
it takes convection out of the heat transfer business.
Ice is an enormous heat sink.

--
Michael Press

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

I discovered something entirely by accident that might be of use to others.
How to keep a frozen water bottle... frozen.

You've just discovered the principle of insulation! In your case, it
is the same action as a thermos bottle, a dead air space. You probably
have double glazed windows at home for the same reason.

For what it is worth, the others are wrong about evaporative cooling
in your case. On of the key parts to your design is the plastic bag.
That keeps the dead air space dead (not circulating environmental
temperature at road speed) and eliminates any evaporative cooling
(unless you place a wet rag over the plastic bag).

Bill Sornson said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Congrats, you've discovered bum tech! Next time ya get a 40oz, have
'em double bag it, and you get the same effect.

That's what Al Gore does on his 1970's era Gulfstream! LOL

Not trying to start anything, but I'm just curious. Is this the same
Bill Sornson that in a post just a few days ago claimed he is never
the first one to inject politics into a thread on another subject?

Smokey

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I discovered something entirely by accident that might be of use to
others.
How to keep a frozen water bottle... frozen.

You've just discovered the principle of insulation! In your case, it
is the same action as a thermos bottle, a dead air space. You probably
have double glazed windows at home for the same reason.

For what it is worth, the others are wrong about evaporative cooling
in your case. On of the key parts to your design is the plastic bag.
That keeps the dead air space dead (not circulating environmental
temperature at road speed) and eliminates any evaporative cooling
(unless you place a wet rag over the plastic bag).

Right. I didn't figure evaporative cooling was in force, since there was no
air passing by to aid in evaporation. So a loosely-fit plastic baggie would
be better than a tight one, since when loose, you have "dead air" space?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Quoted message said:

Bill Sornson said:

Quoted message said:

> Congrats, you've discovered bum tech! Next time ya get a 40oz, have
> 'em double bag it, and you get the same effect.

That's what Al Gore does on his 1970's era Gulfstream! LOL

Not trying to start anything, but I'm just curious. Is this the same
Bill Sornson that in a post just a few days ago claimed he is never
the first one to inject politics into a thread on another subject?

I've never started a political thread (a la Jobst) by posting a link to some
"seriously" controversial issue. That I recall at least.

Making a short, humorous quip intended to tweak one of the most partisan,
hate-filled, mean-spirited morons around is hardly comparable, IMO, but
you're more than welcome to disagree or even plonk me.

Quoted message said:

Smokey

Stuff it in yer pipe, bub!

Bill Sornson said:

Quoted message said:

Bill Sornson said:

>> Congrats, you've discovered bum tech! Next time ya get a 40oz, have
>> 'em double bag it, and you get the same effect.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's what Al Gore does on his 1970's era Gulfstream! LOL

Quoted message said:

Not trying to start anything, but I'm just curious. Is this the same
Bill Sornson that in a post just a few days ago claimed he is never
the first one to inject politics into a thread on another subject?

I've never started a political thread (a la Jobst) by posting a link to some
"seriously" controversial issue. That I recall at least.

Making a short, humorous quip intended to tweak one of the most partisan,
hate-filled, mean-spirited morons around is hardly comparable, IMO, but
you're more than welcome to disagree or even plonk me.

Quoted message said:

Smokey

Stuff it in yer pipe, bub!

One more question, Bill: exactly who are you calling a "hate-filled,
mean-spirited moron?" I'm a little confused here. Also, what am I
stuffing in my pipe?

Smokey

Quoted message said:

Bill Sornson said:

Quoted message said:

On Sep 10, 11:07 am, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>> Congrats, you've discovered bum tech! Next time ya get a 40oz,
>>> have 'em double bag it, and you get the same effect.

Quoted message said:

> That's what Al Gore does on his 1970's era Gulfstream! LOL

Quoted message said:

Not trying to start anything, but I'm just curious. Is this the same
Bill Sornson that in a post just a few days ago claimed he is never
the first one to inject politics into a thread on another subject?

I've never started a political thread (a la Jobst) by posting a link
to some "seriously" controversial issue. That I recall at least.

Making a short, humorous quip intended to tweak one of the most
partisan, hate-filled, mean-spirited morons around is hardly
comparable, IMO, but you're more than welcome to disagree or even
plonk me.

Quoted message said:

Smokey

Stuff it in yer pipe, bub!

One more question, Bill: exactly who are you calling a "hate-filled,
mean-spirited moron?"

Terra Rat. (Sigh.) I was pointing out that double bagging will cause NYC
to flood and polar bears to drown; meanwhile, Al flies around on his OLD
Gulfstream (even less fuel-efficient than modern spewers).

Quoted message said:

I'm a little confused here. Also, what am I
stuffing in my pipe?

Quoted message said:

Smokey

Play on your name. Didn't know how thin-skinned you are. Sorry.

Bill "NEVER MIND...SHEESH" S.

Bill Sornson said:

Quoted message said:

Bill Sornson said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> On Sep 10, 11:07 am, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>> Congrats, you've discovered bum tech! Next time ya get a 40oz,
>>>> have 'em double bag it, and you get the same effect.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> That's what Al Gore does on his 1970's era Gulfstream! LOL

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Not trying to start anything, but I'm just curious. Is this the same
> Bill Sornson that in a post just a few days ago claimed he is never
> the first one to inject politics into a thread on another subject?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've never started a political thread (a la Jobst) by posting a link
to some "seriously" controversial issue. That I recall at least.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Making a short, humorous quip intended to tweak one of the most
partisan, hate-filled, mean-spirited morons around is hardly
comparable, IMO, but you're more than welcome to disagree or even
plonk me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Smokey

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Stuff it in yer pipe, bub!

Quoted message said:

One more question, Bill: exactly who are you calling a "hate-filled,
mean-spirited moron?"

Terra Rat. (Sigh.) I was pointing out that double bagging will cause NYC
to flood and polar bears to drown; meanwhile, Al flies around on his OLD
Gulfstream (even less fuel-efficient than modern spewers).

Quoted message said:

I'm a little confused here. Also, what am I
stuffing in my pipe?
Smokey

Play on your name. Didn't know how thin-skinned you are. Sorry.

Bill "NEVER MIND...SHEESH" S.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm not thin-skinned, Bill. I grew up in the 60s when all kinds of
things went in our pipes. LOL. I didn't mean any offense.

Smokey

Quoted message said:

I'm not thin-skinned, Bill. I grew up in the 60s when all kinds of
things went in our pipes. LOL. I didn't mean any offense.

Mean offense with sorni, then plonk him. He's just another
authoritarian cultist, not worth a second more of your time. ;-)