BAH! Lights vs helmets

Clive George said:

And then you have the temerity to have a go at me for not wearing a
helmet! Get your priorities sorted out.

"I'm not wearing a helmet because I don't plan on having
an accident. That is what the lights are for."

"Clive George" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A big hello to the group of cyclists I met at the Old Station Inn today.
About half a dozen of you, of a sensible age, on nice bikes, in the right
kit. At about 2040 BST, about 50 minutes after sunset on a cloudy day.

With one whole set of lights between you!

"We were late back"
"How late"
"Half an hour"

Which means you should have known you were getting back after sunset, ie
lighting up time, even if you weren't late.

How much effort does it take to carry one little blinky? Obviously too
much. Obviously being sporting riders there were no reflectors either,
pedal or rear. I'd not normally complain about that - but since you didn't
bother to provide a replacement I think it is worth pointing out.

That's why I had a go at you. You're old enough to know better - to not
[censored] up like that. To have learned that it probably is worth taking the
precaution of at least one lamp.

And then you have the temerity to have a go at me for not wearing a
helmet! Get your priorities sorted out.

clive

Yes, frightening isn't it Clive? People will ride with a helmet but ignore
every other safety measure. Reminds me of the story I heard, from a
reliable source, about a female cyclist riding at night without lights.
When it was pointed out to her that she really ought to have lights, the
response was "I don't need lights, I'm wearing a helmet"

Clive, the negative reaction from the group of 'lawbreakers' should be
expected.

Please allow for mistakes and misjudgements - we all do it.

Don't you?

"Teredo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive, the negative reaction from the group of 'lawbreakers' should be
expected.

Please allow for mistakes and misjudgements - we all do it.

Don't you?

I'll allow for mistakes and misjudgements - but the people who made them
should accept that they did so, rather than getting all defensive.

The tone was "it's not our fault, we were late back". But as I pointed out
in my post, even if they were on time, they would have needed lights.

The thing is, it takes pretty much no effort at all to carry a rear led
lamp. Setting off on a ride without lights where you know it's going to be
marginal on light anyway without things going wrong seems more than a little
foolish to me. A couple of punctures in the group, and you're out of time.
Getting slightly lost, taking a bit more over a cup of tea, a stronger wind
on a return leg than expected, and you're out of time. A group of
experienced riders should know this, and should plan appropriately.

Like I said, I'd expect a group of kids to make this sort of mistake, but
not experienced men.

What would the group have done had they met plod? (or did they have plod
with them?). Stopped and walked? Grumbled about being fined? Or accepted a
bollocking with better grace than they did the one they got from me?

And then to go off onto the bogus helmet track is just silly.

Were you one of them?

cheers,
clive

Clive George said:

"Teredo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive, the negative reaction from the group of 'lawbreakers' should be
expected.

Please allow for mistakes and misjudgements - we all do it.

Don't you?

I'll allow for mistakes and misjudgements - but the people who made them
should accept that they did so, rather than getting all defensive.

The tone was "it's not our fault, we were late back". But as I pointed out
in my post, even if they were on time, they would have needed lights.

The thing is, it takes pretty much no effort at all to carry a rear led
lamp. Setting off on a ride without lights where you know it's going to be
marginal on light anyway without things going wrong seems more than a little
foolish to me. A couple of punctures in the group, and you're out of time.
Getting slightly lost, taking a bit more over a cup of tea, a stronger wind
on a return leg than expected, and you're out of time. A group of
experienced riders should know this, and should plan appropriately.

Like I said, I'd expect a group of kids to make this sort of mistake, but
not experienced men.

What would the group have done had they met plod? (or did they have plod
with them?). Stopped and walked? Grumbled about being fined? Or accepted a
bollocking with better grace than they did the one they got from me?

And then to go off onto the bogus helmet track is just silly.

Were you one of them?

cheers,
clive

nope your spot, on all my bikes bar the mountain bike have lights, as
they weight hardly anything and you never know when you might need them.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Clive, Clive please?

I would hope our imaginary policeman would've reasonable, wouldn't
you?

I hope he would have ticked them off and left it at that.

Let's leave policing of cyclists to the Police eh?

No I wasn't one of them, but I do make mistakes.

For the second time I ask if you do?

"Teredo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive, Clive please?

I would hope our imaginary policeman would've reasonable, wouldn't
you?

I hope he would have ticked them off and left it at that.

You mean like I did? Seems like I did exactly what you wanted to be done -
so where's your problem?

Quoted message said:

Let's leave policing of cyclists to the Police eh?

No, let's not, eh? We've got 1 policeman covering half a county in the
evenings here - it's a waste of his time coming out for minor stuff like
this. The odds of him coming across them by chance are incredibly low.

Actually people saying "don't do anything, leave it to the police" annoys
me. It's one of the reasons people are prepared to try things they
shouldn't - the lack of challenge by normal people. Obviously care for
personal safety is one good reason for not doing stuff - but once you've
taken care of that bit, why not do things?

Quoted message said:

No I wasn't one of them, but I do make mistakes.

For the second time I ask if you do?

I feel I answered that adequately the first time :

"I'll allow for mistakes and misjudgements - but the people who made them
should accept that they did so, rather than getting all defensive."

These were probably people you'd normally consider to be good responible
citizens - yet they were in denial about the extent of their stupidity.

clive

Teredo said:

No I wasn't one of them, but I do make mistakes.

For the second time I ask if you do?

Some mistakes are excusable. For an experienced cyclist, getting caught
out after dark without lights is not one of them IMHO. I think we've
established that Clive doesn't make that mistake.

Personally, I wouldn't leave the house without lights unless I was going
somewhere close enough to home that I'd be happy to walk home.

--
Danny Colyer <http://www.redpedals.co.uk>
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down.
Daddy, why did you put that down?" - Charlie Colyer, age 2

[email hidden] (Roger Merriman) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

nope your spot, on all my bikes bar the mountain bike have lights, as
they weight hardly anything and you never know when you might need
them.

This may come out as my being a goody-two-shoes but I can't remember the
last time I went out on a bike that didn't have lights, either a dynamo
set, or a set of small LEDs in the bag - as you say they are so light and
cheap there's no excuse whatsoever.

Mike the unimaginative said:

[email hidden] (Roger Merriman) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

nope your spot, on all my bikes bar the mountain bike have lights, as
they weight hardly anything and you never know when you might need
them.

This may come out as my being a goody-two-shoes but I can't remember the
last time I went out on a bike that didn't have lights, either a dynamo
set, or a set of small LEDs in the bag - as you say they are so light and
cheap there's no excuse whatsoever.

i leave the lights fitted, i really should get some fitted to my
mountain bike sods law says i'll get caught out one of these. and i pair
of tiny LED's would take up hardly any space etc.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Clive George said:

A big hello to the group of cyclists I met at the Old Station Inn today.
About half a dozen of you, of a sensible age, on nice bikes, in the right
kit. At about 2040 BST, about 50 minutes after sunset on a cloudy day.

With one whole set of lights between you!

In town (London) this evening: an awful lot of totally unlit cyclists
(perhaps two-thirds of all the cyclists I saw). About half of them were
wearing h*lm*ts (as was one of the lit ones).

R

--
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you
remember them as they actually are [...]
-- Ernest Hemingway

"Clive George" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Teredo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

No, let's not, eh? We've got 1 policeman covering half a county in the
evenings here - it's a waste of his time coming out for minor stuff like
this. The odds of him coming across them by chance are incredibly low.

Actually people saying "don't do anything, leave it to the police" annoys
me. It's one of the reasons people are prepared to try things they
shouldn't - the lack of challenge by normal people. Obviously care for
personal safety is one good reason for not doing stuff - but once you've
taken care of that bit, why not do things?

Bloody well said that man! I've had many a discussion with drivers and
motorcylists who think that they have the right to abuse cycle facilities,
and sometimes other cyclists congratulate me for having the balls to say
something to them. But most people just sit back and take it. Stop taking
it and do something! Yourself. Yes YOU. Do it. Stop being scared and
ruled by the fear factor and do something! Let's put the bullies in their
place.

in message <[email hidden]>, Clive George

(') said:

Actually people saying "don't do anything, leave it to the police" annoys
me. It's one of the reasons people are prepared to try things they
shouldn't - the lack of challenge by normal people. Obviously care for
personal safety is one good reason for not doing stuff - but once you've
taken care of that bit, why not do things?

Well said that man!

And, yes, lack of lights after dark is pretty inexcusable.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

((DoctorWho)ChristopherEccleston).act();
uk.co.bbc.TypecastException: actor does not want to be typecast.
[adapted from autofile on /., 31/03/05]

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Clive George

(') said:

Actually people saying "don't do anything, leave it to the police" annoys
me. It's one of the reasons people are prepared to try things they
shouldn't - the lack of challenge by normal people. Obviously care for
personal safety is one good reason for not doing stuff - but once you've
taken care of that bit, why not do things?

Well said that man!

And, yes, lack of lights after dark is pretty inexcusable.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

((DoctorWho)ChristopherEccleston).act();
uk.co.bbc.TypecastException: actor does not want to be typecast.
[adapted from autofile on /., 31/03/05]

And I'll third it. I usually carry lights on both my bikes, and a
spare set of small elasticated blinkies in my toolkit in case of
emergency.

Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

And, yes, lack of lights after dark is pretty inexcusable.

Wednesday night I was cycling slowly through Winchester centre after a CTC
ride, will full armoury of bright lights. As I passed a pedestrian she
muttered loudly "Makes a change to see a cyclist with lights". I was going
slow enough for my "Pity its the same old grumpy pedestrian though" riposte
to be heard.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell