General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

A recent statement by Ornish...

Nick · 2003-11-27T23:20:33+00:00

...is worth taking note of. He said not to worry about HDL cholesterol levels on his diet, because if you are his diet, there will be less "garbage" floating around in your body. Now he thinks "saturated fat" and cholesterol are the problems, when in reality (meaning the overwhelming body of scientific evidence) the "garbage" is free radical damaged proteins and fats. A big problem is that many of these experts don't even realize that lard, which they call "saturated fat" is usually less than 40% saturated fatty acids, meaning more than 60% unsaturated fatty acids. The unsaturated fatty acids are the ones to worry about, especially arachidonic acid (due to its inflammatory properties when it is in your body in the amounts that are common in Americans and most other Westerners), because they are very susceptible to being degraded by free radicals, then doing damamge to other molecules in your body, such as proteins (including lipoproteins, which is why they say that LDL is "bad" - "bad LDL" is actually an oxysterol, not cholesterol, which is what it is called if not degraded by free radicals. The obnoxious part of this sad story is that it is biochemistry (used to be called organic chemistry) of the most basic level - and those "experts" out there seem to be unaware of it. So worry about free radicals, not HDL or LDL or triglycerides, etc. Eat berries, dark chocolate, and other foods high in antioxidants, and avoid cholesterol foods unless you cook them correctly, such as boiling eggs, and avoid unsaturated fatty acids (a couple of olives are okay, but go with coconut oil, butter, and dark chocolate as your main fat sources).

Started by Nick · 27 November 2003 · Last activity 27 November 2003 · 4 posts · 502 views

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Original section: General fitness, health and nutrition
Published: 27 November 2003
Last activity: 27 November 2003
Original author: Nick
Posts: 4
Discussion status: Public discussion
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Original post
Nick
Archived post

27 November 2003, 23:20 UTC #1

...is worth taking note of. He said not to worry about HDL cholesterol levels on his diet, because
if you are his diet, there will be less "garbage" floating around in your body. Now he thinks
"saturated fat" and cholesterol are the problems, when in reality (meaning the overwhelming body of
scientific evidence) the "garbage" is free radical damaged proteins and fats. A big problem is that
many of these experts don't even realize that lard, which they call "saturated fat" is usually less
than 40% saturated fatty acids, meaning more than 60% unsaturated fatty acids. The unsaturated fatty
acids are the ones to worry about, especially arachidonic acid (due to its inflammatory properties
when it is in your body in the amounts that are common in Americans and most other Westerners),
because they are very susceptible to being degraded by free radicals, then doing damamge to other
molecules in your body, such as proteins (including lipoproteins, which is why they say that LDL is
"bad" - "bad LDL" is actually an oxysterol, not cholesterol, which is what it is called if not
degraded by free radicals. The obnoxious part of this sad story is that it is biochemistry (used to
be called organic chemistry) of the most basic level - and those "experts" out there seem to be
unaware of it. So worry about free radicals, not HDL or LDL or triglycerides, etc. Eat berries, dark
chocolate, and other foods high in antioxidants, and avoid cholesterol foods unless you cook them
correctly, such as boiling eggs, and avoid unsaturated fatty acids (a couple of olives are okay, but
go with coconut oil, butter, and dark chocolate as your main fat sources).

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Doe
Archived post

27 November 2003, 23:24 UTC #2

Quoted message said:
Subject: A recent statement by Ornish... From: "nick" [email hidden] Date: 11/21/2003 9:15 PM
Mountain Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
...is worth taking note of. He said not to worry about HDL cholesterol levels on his diet, because
if you are his diet, there will be less "garbage" floating around in your body. Now he thinks
"saturated fat" and cholesterol are the problems, when in reality (meaning the overwhelming body of
scientific evidence) the "garbage" is free radical damaged proteins and fats. A big problem is that
many of these experts don't even realize that lard, which they call "saturated fat" is usually less
than 40% saturated fatty acids, meaning more than 60% unsaturated fatty acids. The unsaturated
fatty acids are the ones to worry about, especially arachidonic acid (due to its inflammatory
properties when it is in your body in the amounts that are common in Americans and most other
Westerners), because they are very susceptible to being degraded by free radicals, then doing
damamge to other molecules in your body, such as proteins (including lipoproteins, which is why
they say that LDL is "bad" - "bad LDL" is actually an oxysterol, not cholesterol, which is what it
is called if not degraded by free radicals. The obnoxious part of this sad story is that it is
biochemistry (used to be called organic chemistry) of the most basic level - and those "experts"
out there seem to be unaware of it. So worry about free radicals, not HDL or LDL or triglycerides,
etc. Eat berries, dark chocolate, and other foods high in antioxidants, and avoid cholesterol foods
unless you cook them correctly, such as boiling eggs, and avoid unsaturated fatty acids (a couple
of olives are okay, but go with coconut oil, butter, and dark chocolate as your main fat sources).
And where do YOU think all the rust / oxidation / free radicals are coming .. from ..?
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! jesuswasavegetarian.7h.comjesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore!
pages.ivillage.commanisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
pages.ivillage.comdeadpeoplewalking

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John 'The Man
Archived post

27 November 2003, 23:24 UTC #3

Once upon a time, our fellow nick rambled on about "A recent statement by Ornish...." Our champion
De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...
Quoted message said:
Now he thinks "saturated fat" and cholesterol are the problems, when in reality (meaning the
overwhelming body of scientific evidence) the "garbage" is free radical damaged proteins and fats.
Why does the world know about Ornish, but not nick?
Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
Just my opinion. But, I am *right* as usual!

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Robert
Archived post

27 November 2003, 23:27 UTC #4

"doe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Subject: A recent statement by Ornish... From: "nick" [email hidden] Date: 11/21/2003 9:15 PM
Mountain Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
...is worth taking note of. He said not to worry about HDL cholesterol levels on his diet,
because if you are his diet, there will be less "garbage" floating around in your body. Now he
thinks "saturated fat"

and
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
cholesterol are the problems, when in reality (meaning the overwhelming

body
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
of scientific evidence) the "garbage" is free radical damaged proteins

and
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
fats. A big problem is that many of these experts don't even realize

that
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
lard, which they call "saturated fat" is usually less than 40% saturated fatty acids, meaning
more than 60% unsaturated fatty acids. The

unsaturated
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
fatty acids are the ones to worry about, especially arachidonic acid (due

to
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
its inflammatory properties when it is in your body in the amounts that

are
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
common in Americans and most other Westerners), because they are very susceptible to being
degraded by free radicals, then doing damamge to

other
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
molecules in your body, such as proteins (including lipoproteins, which

is
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
why they say that LDL is "bad" - "bad LDL" is actually an oxysterol, not cholesterol, which is
what it is called if not degraded by free radicals. The obnoxious part of this sad story is that
it is biochemistry (used to

be
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
called organic chemistry) of the most basic level - and those "experts"

out
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
there seem to be unaware of it. So worry about free radicals, not HDL or LDL or triglycerides,
etc. Eat berries, dark chocolate, and other foods high in antioxidants, and avoid cholesterol
foods unless you cook them correctly, such as boiling eggs, and avoid unsaturated fatty acids (a

couple
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
of olives are okay, but go with coconut oil, butter, and dark chocolate

as
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
your main fat sources).
And where do YOU think all the rust / oxidation / free radicals are coming

..
Quoted message said:
from ..?
OXI DATION. It comes from oxygen and both of you guys need to hold your breath longer and longer to
rid the body of this nasty oxidation.
Quoted message said:

Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! jesuswasavegetarian.7h.comjesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore!
pages.ivillage.commanisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING

pages.ivillage.comdeadpeoplewalking

Report

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