lessons learned

em said:

1) If you can't count it don't eat it

I disagree with this bit. I figure if I eat home and known foods 90%+
of the time, that's good.

If I have to do "best guessing" eating out somewhere, well I'll do my
best guessing. I'm not going to forsake traveling or holidays with
family for the sake of low-carbing, sometimes the best I can do just has
to be good enough.

Quoted message said:

3) If things seem to be getting a little out of control, just eat meat
for a couple days and get back on-track.

This *always* works if I've suffered carb-creep from being away from
home. It's my favorite time to roast a turkey, just eat it by itself
for a few days, then start making turkey salads and soups and adding
other things in.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Jackie Patti wrote in message

<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

If I have to do "best guessing" eating out somewhere, well I'll do my
best guessing. I'm not going to forsake traveling or holidays with
family for the sake of low-carbing, sometimes the best I can do just

has

Quoted message said:

to be good enough.

I totally agree with your post. :-)

Cheri

"Jackie Patti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

em said:

1) If you can't count it don't eat it

I disagree with this bit. I figure if I eat home and known foods 90%+ of
the time, that's good.

I hear what you're saying, but I'm only six weeks into this low-carb way of
eating (although I did low-cal for quite a while before making the switch).
Had I used better judgement on the days I ate out, and maybe stuck to meat
or something for the rest of the day, I probably wouldn't have had any
problems. I don't want to foresake restaraunts and so forth, but at this
point in my "transition" I think its a good idea to avoid these kinds of
potential problems.

In time I'll settle into this woe and become better at dealing with this
kind of thing. For now, though, I do consider myself to be one hell of a
carb addict (or something), and will go the route of abstinance.

Quoted message said:

roast a turkey, just eat it by itself for a few days, then start making
turkey salads and soups and adding other things in.

How do you cook a whole turkey (or a chicken) without stuffing it? (That's
the only way I've made turkey in the past.)

I thought, by nature, all soups were pretty carby. Other than turkey and
water, what do you put in?

This sounds pretty good, actually. Would like to give it a shot.

Thanks!

Em

298/241/skinny

em said:

"Jackie Patti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

roast a turkey, just eat it by itself for a few days, then start
making turkey salads and soups and adding other things in.

How do you cook a whole turkey (or a chicken) without stuffing it?
(That's the only way I've made turkey in the past.)

Ummm... you DON'T stuff it. That's pretty much all there is to it. It
cooks a bit quicker and it's a lot juicier cause stuffing pulls a lot of
the flavor out.

Quoted message said:

I thought, by nature, all soups were pretty carby. Other than turkey and
water, what do you put in?

You simmer the leftover carcass in water for a few hours, cool it, and
then throw out the bones and such to yield a broth/meat mixture.

Add some chopped celery, carrots, onions and parsley and simmer until
it's soup. I leave off adding any salt as I like it served with Parmesan.

Soup is only carby cause most of the canned varieties you can buy have
noodles, rice or potatoes. Homemade soups are fine though.

Google this group for lots of variations on the Italian sausage soup.
It's awesome!

My version:
http://ornery-geeks.org/text/cooking/thirtydinners/italiansausagesoup.asp

Last time I made it, I calculated it at less than 6g carb and 17g
protein per cup of soup; half of that big batch is in the freezer.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

em said:

I hear what you're saying, but I'm only six weeks into this low-carb way of
eating (although I did low-cal for quite a while before making the switch).
Had I used better judgement on the days I ate out, and maybe stuck to meat
or something for the rest of the day, I probably wouldn't have had any
problems. I don't want to foresake restaraunts and so forth, but at this
point in my "transition" I think its a good idea to avoid these kinds of
potential problems.

You learn with practice and it gets easier. Let it progress with
time.

Quoted message said:

In time I'll settle into this woe and become better at dealing with this
kind of thing. For now, though, I do consider myself to be one hell of a
carb addict (or something), and will go the route of abstinance.

Eventually the question becomes at what point are the foods that
should be abstained from? Cake it's easy to figure out. Carrots,
not nearly so easy to figure out.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

roast a turkey, just eat it by itself for a few days, then start making
turkey salads and soups and adding other things in.

How do you cook a whole turkey (or a chicken) without stuffing it? (That's
the only way I've made turkey in the past.)

Deep fry doesn't include stuffing. Stuffing of celery and cauliflower
is low carb. Roast without stuffing isn't any different from roast
with stuffing except slightly different timing.

Quoted message said:

I thought, by nature, all soups were pretty carby.

Time to read more recipes! Even canned soups include some that
aren't all that bad unless you;re very low.

Quoted message said:

Other than turkey and water, what do you put in?

Bird or any sort, broth of any sort, herbs. Since low carb
veggies get soft quickly, they go in an hour before serving
not early in the cooking. Later various root veggies can
be considered depending on how it goes.

em said:

Just finished my little two day meat fast. Didn't seem that a third day was
necessary. Meat only for 24 hours seems to put my appetite in check. I was
just dying for a salad, so I broke my meat fast.

Had a great weigh-in today, 5.5 pounds down from yesterday. Water, of
course. I think I've been carrying some around for a little more than the
past week. That drops me a bit below the current goal line on my graph, and
if a pound or two of that socks itself back on, I'll still be at/below that
line on my chart.

Possibility - You ate something that made you hungry and as soon as
the cravings for it went away. Sometimes intolerance reactions that
include cravings also include bloating. You might be able to pick a
specific food that caused a problem for you (dairy?), eat some, see
if it triggers water gain again.

Quoted message said:

I've been keeping track of carbs, "the best I could". Over the past week or
two I've eaten some meals out & had some questionable food. Jumbo hot dogs
at the Queen Mary, salad dressing on my salads, and "the best I could do" in
terms of ordering a main course and so forth.

Over time, the best you can do includes more and more.

Quoted message said:

I can do an OK job of guessing how many carbs are in these foods, but
there's no way to know for sure. Could there be some added sugar in that
salad dressing?

Ask for oil and vinegar on the side and say goodbye to that issue.

Quoted message said:

When they "brushed" that salmon with herbs & oil, did they
fail to mention that they "brush" it with sugar too?

Probably.

Quoted message said:

Where those jumbo hot
dogs really 3 carbs each, which was my best guess, or were there 7 or 10
carbs in those things due to fillers and whatever else?

For hot dogs I think 3-4 tends to be worst case as long as you
ditched the bun. I often eat pepperoni with lunch yet I tend to
get kosher hot dogs - The kosher ones never seem to have a
carb count near 0.5 and they taste better.

Quoted message said:

So, number one,
saying that I tracked my carbs "the best I could" is a crock. "If I can't
count it I won't eat it." That's gotta be Rule #1.

And in time you'll be able to count more stuff. So understand
that this becomes a sliding rule.

Quoted message said:

I have a problem with cheese. Once I eat more than a couple ounces I start
to crave it or something. It doesn't matter that 10oz of cheese is < 10
carbs. That's a lot of fricken cheese. "Wet" cheeses, like cottage cheese
and sour cream are worse. I have the same problem with nuts. So rule #2 here
is "buy trigger foods in small packages." No more two pound bricks of cheese
in my fridge or 2lb tubs of cottage cheese.

2) Buy only small amounts of trigger foods

No. Figure out what your trigger foods are and avoid them. The
more obvious the trigger the more important to practice complete
avoidance but understand that carb counts are only half of the
conceptual framework of Atkins. The other half is that food
intolerances trigger addictive behavior patterns. A less intense
trigger (I call them "slippery slope foods"😉 will chip away at you
dedication but in the long run it still runs against you.

There are going to be plenty of foods you can eat and not that
many you need to avoid. Celebrate the good ones and learn
good eating without the bad ones.

One thing I discovered about nuts - For me it is by type of nut
not just all nuts. Cashews and peanuts I'll eat until they are
gone no matter the size of the container - While a 1 oz bag might
not be so bad a 20 oz jar is a very bad idea. But walnuts, pecans,
filberts and so on I can have a handful, put the container away,
and not touch it again that day. So those are the types of nuts
I get. Experiment a bit to see if similar applies to you.

Quoted message said:

3) If things seem to be getting a little out of control, just eat meat for a
couple days and get back on-track.

No need to go more restrictive than the Induction list, though
given your comments about dairy I think Induction minus dairy.

Quoted message said:

One thing I will say that I'm doing real good with is resisting temptation.
There's cake in the fridge, rice, popsicles in the freezer, etc. As long as
I don't touch that stuff I'm fine. Just one bite, I know, will do me in, so
I never take that one bite.

The temptation of high carb foods never, ever, goes away.
The Atkins process teaches what each of us can and can't eat if
we follow the process, and that's much more accurate than our
guesses as to what those foods will be. So follow the process.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jackie Patti said:

em said:

"Jackie Patti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

roast a turkey, just eat it by itself for a few days, then start
making turkey salads and soups and adding other things in.

How do you cook a whole turkey (or a chicken) without stuffing it?
(That's the only way I've made turkey in the past.)

Ummm... you DON'T stuff it. That's pretty much all there is to it. It
cooks a bit quicker and it's a lot juicier cause stuffing pulls a lot of
the flavor out.

For a roast whole chicken, I put a quartered onion in the main cavity,
along with a branch of fresh rosemary.

--
AF
"Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team."
--artyw raises the bar on rec.sport.baseball

Alice Faber said:

Jackie Patti said:

em said:

How do you cook a whole turkey (or a chicken) without stuffing it?
(That's the only way I've made turkey in the past.)

Ummm... you DON'T stuff it. That's pretty much all there is to it.
It cooks a bit quicker and it's a lot juicier cause stuffing pulls
a lot of the flavor out.

For a roast whole chicken, I put a quartered onion in the main cavity,
along with a branch of fresh rosemary.

A quartered lemon works pretty well too. There's also something
called "beer-butt chicken," which is just what you'd think it is.
Open a can of beer and "sit" the chicken on it so the beer goes up
inside it. It should sit up on the beer can and two feet. Roast or
grill the bird, and the steam boiling out of the can is supposed to
help keep the chicken moist.

I'm a little iffy about the idea of cooking a coated aluminum can
inside my food, but it does taste good.

--
Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

em said:

How do you cook a whole turkey (or a chicken) without stuffing it?
(That's the only way I've made turkey in the past.)

The same way, but without stuffing it.

Quoted message said:

I thought, by nature, all soups were pretty carby. Other than turkey
and water, what do you put in?

Broccoli, cauliflower, green or yellow beans, leeks, cabbage, Brussels
sprouts, Swiss chard, peppers, shirataki noodles, mushrooms, a little
wild rice, spices, herbs, etc. If you need to thicken it, cream
works. I recently got some guar gum for a thickener, but I haven't
had a chance to use it yet.

--
Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

Aaron Baugher wrote:
::
:: A quartered lemon works pretty well too. There's also something
:: called "beer-butt chicken," which is just what you'd think it is.
:: Open a can of beer and "sit" the chicken on it so the beer goes up
:: inside it. It should sit up on the beer can and two feet. Roast or
:: grill the bird, and the steam boiling out of the can is supposed to
:: help keep the chicken moist.
::
:: I'm a little iffy about the idea of cooking a coated aluminum can
:: inside my food, but it does taste good.

I wonder if you transfer the beer to a glass of some type?

Aaron Baugher said:

Alice Faber said:

For a roast whole chicken, I put a quartered onion in the main cavity,
along with a branch of fresh rosemary.

A quartered lemon works pretty well too. There's also something
called "beer-butt chicken," which is just what you'd think it is.
Open a can of beer and "sit" the chicken on it so the beer goes up
inside it. It should sit up on the beer can and two feet. Roast or
grill the bird, and the steam boiling out of the can is supposed to
help keep the chicken moist.

In some drawer I have a little metal rack that a chicken gets
set on. It is made several rods of black metal, maybe anodized.
I've had the gadget for years before I ever heard of beer can
chicken. I figure the steam from the beer should improve the
flavor of the chicken, if the beer is good enough to drink.

Quoted message said:

I'm a little iffy about the idea of cooking a coated aluminum can
inside my food, but it does taste good.

That's why the cans are painted on the outside and coated with
something shiney (and probably not heat resistant) on the inside.
Whatever that paint stuff is, you get that instead of the metal.
I'll take my metal rack over the can ...

Pat said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm a little iffy about the idea of cooking a coated aluminum can
inside my food, but it does taste good.

That's why the cans are painted on the outside and coated with
something shiney (and probably not heat resistant) on the inside.
Whatever that paint stuff is, you get that instead of the metal.
I'll take my metal rack over the can ...

I knew a guy who worked for Valspar, the paint company that produces the
coating on the inside of cans. He gave me a lecture about it once. As I
remember, he said it was a polymer only 1 micron thick...just something to
keep the liquid from cannabalizing the aluminum. Heat resistant? I dunno.

It would probably hold up on the inside coating as long as there was
still a fair amount of beer liquid left. The temperature would be kept
pretty near the boiling point of beer which is similar to that of water.

If the beer can went dry, then coating stuff could disintegrate from the
heat and lack of cooling liquid.

If the beer cans go dry, the diners could disintegrate from the heat and
lack of cooling liquid.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm a little iffy about the idea of cooking a coated aluminum can
inside my food, but it does taste good.

That's why the cans are painted on the outside and coated with
something shiney (and probably not heat resistant) on the inside.
Whatever that paint stuff is, you get that instead of the metal.
I'll take my metal rack over the can ...

I knew a guy who worked for Valspar, the paint company that produces the
coating on the inside of cans. He gave me a lecture about it once. As I
remember, he said it was a polymer only 1 micron thick...just something to
keep the liquid from cannabalizing the aluminum. Heat resistant? I dunno.

Quoted message said:

Jim said:

Pat said:

Quoted message said:

>I'm a little iffy about the idea of cooking a coated aluminum can
>inside my food, but it does taste good.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's why the cans are painted on the outside and coated with
something shiney (and probably not heat resistant) on the inside.
Whatever that paint stuff is, you get that instead of the metal.
I'll take my metal rack over the can ...

Quoted message said:

I knew a guy who worked for Valspar, the paint company that produces the
coating on the inside of cans. He gave me a lecture about it once. As I
remember, he said it was a polymer only 1 micron thick...just something to
keep the liquid from cannabalizing the aluminum. Heat resistant? I dunno.

It would probably hold up on the inside coating as long as there was
still a fair amount of beer liquid left. The temperature would be kept
pretty near the boiling point of beer which is similar to that of water.

If the beer can went dry, then coating stuff could disintegrate from the
heat and lack of cooling liquid.

If the beer cans go dry, the diners could disintegrate from the heat and
lack of cooling liquid.

As an experienced Beer Can Chicken cook, I will provide some
information:
1- you empty half the beer (or whatever, it doesn't have to be beer),
and it
gets Very Hot
2- I have never had a problem with the paint peeling off the can.
3- I could not tell you about the lining, but it doesn't seem to be a
problem.
4- If you "cork" the top of the chicken with a full head of garlic,
yum.
5- The advantage to vertical roasting, over flat roasting, is that
there is no
down side to the chicken. What I mean is that you don't have any side
that
sits flat, and gets soggy with the chicken juices pooling. This
problem is
mitigated by the wire rack device, but eliminated by the can method (I
have
a beer can holding wire rack, that I can use without a beer can. I
have also
seen various platforms that have a cup in the center, so you don't
have to use
the can.
6- The skin on a BC Chicken is to die for. Like the best rotisserie
chicken, that
never had to sit in a bag or anything. To die for.
7- The meat stays VERY moist. And, if you are slick, nicely flavored.
By slick
I mean, put some aromatic spices in your liquid, and the
aforementioned head
of garlic (or an onion) at the neck hole.
8- As with all good roasted chickens (or grilled chickens), the key is
in the rub,
and rubbing beneath the skin.
9- Last thing: Can gets very hot, but I dunno that it's much over the
point of boiling.
I wouldn't want to touch it, but if you're doing this right, you are
not cooking terribly hot.
On the grill, it's indirect heat, so no fire directly below the can.

Any rate, I highly recommend this technique. I have not horizontally
roasted a chicken
since I discovered it, and probably never will again.

Hollywood said:

Jim said:

Pat said:

>>I'm a little iffy about the idea of cooking a coated aluminum can
>>inside my food, but it does taste good.

Quoted message said:

>That's why the cans are painted on the outside and coated with
>something shiney (and probably not heat resistant) on the inside.
>Whatever that paint stuff is, you get that instead of the metal.
>I'll take my metal rack over the can ...

Quoted message said:

I knew a guy who worked for Valspar, the paint company that produces the
coating on the inside of cans. He gave me a lecture about it once. As I
remember, he said it was a polymer only 1 micron thick...just something to
keep the liquid from cannabalizing the aluminum. Heat resistant? I dunno.

It would probably hold up on the inside coating as long as there was
still a fair amount of beer liquid left. The temperature would be kept
pretty near the boiling point of beer which is similar to that of water.

If the beer can went dry, then coating stuff could disintegrate from the
heat and lack of cooling liquid.

If the beer cans go dry, the diners could disintegrate from the heat and
lack of cooling liquid.

As an experienced Beer Can Chicken cook, I will provide some
information:
1- you empty half the beer (or whatever, it doesn't have to be beer),
and it
gets Very Hot

Are you saying that the beer doesn't flavor the chicken, that water
would be just as good? Or is there some benefit to seasonings or
flavorings in the liquid?

Would a liquid of water and soy sauce produce a different chicken taste,
for example? I would ask about teriyaki sauce, but I don't think my
spelling would be right.

Quoted message said:

2- I have never had a problem with the paint peeling off the can.
3- I could not tell you about the lining, but it doesn't seem to be a
problem.
4- If you "cork" the top of the chicken with a full head of garlic,
yum.
5- The advantage to vertical roasting, over flat roasting, is that
there is no
down side to the chicken. What I mean is that you don't have any side
that
sits flat, and gets soggy with the chicken juices pooling. This
problem is
mitigated by the wire rack device, but eliminated by the can method (I
have
a beer can holding wire rack, that I can use without a beer can. I
have also
seen various platforms that have a cup in the center, so you don't
have to use
the can.
6- The skin on a BC Chicken is to die for. Like the best rotisserie
chicken, that
never had to sit in a bag or anything. To die for.
7- The meat stays VERY moist. And, if you are slick, nicely flavored.
By slick
I mean, put some aromatic spices in your liquid, and the
aforementioned head
of garlic (or an onion) at the neck hole.
8- As with all good roasted chickens (or grilled chickens), the key is
in the rub,
and rubbing beneath the skin.
9- Last thing: Can gets very hot, but I dunno that it's much over the
point of boiling.
I wouldn't want to touch it, but if you're doing this right, you are
not cooking terribly hot.
On the grill, it's indirect heat, so no fire directly below the can.

Any rate, I highly recommend this technique. I have not horizontally
roasted a chicken
since I discovered it, and probably never will again.

"Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In time I'll settle into this woe and become better at dealing with this
kind of thing. For now, though, I do consider myself to be one hell of a
carb addict (or something), and will go the route of abstinence.

Eventually the question becomes at what point are the foods that
should be abstained from? Cake it's easy to figure out. Carrots,
not nearly so easy to figure out.

Yesterday I found what might be one of those "intolerances" of which you
speak. Around 6pm I had two small bags of peanuts, 5 carbs ea. By 10:30 I
felt bloated and had to let my belt out a notch. This morning my physical
weight was up 2.5 pounds from yesterday. (Water. I know)

Earlier in the day, maybe 2pm, I had some corned beef from the deli. It
could have been that but I doubt it.

Overall for the day, depending on whether there were a few carbs in the
corned beef (which I doubt), I stayed between 20 and 25 carbs for the day.

I'm going to take a shot at some filberts after these two pounds are gone. I
think I can get them up at trader joes. I'm starting to look at this more
like an experiment than a diet, and that's a good thing for somebody (like
me) who tends to get a bit obsessed.

--

On another note, I'll probably roast a chicken this w/e if it isn't too hot.
I also have frozen raspberries, h. cream, etc. ready to go if there's a heat
wave. Thanks to all on the recipe advice re. both things.

Jim said:

Hollywood said:

On Aug 28, 9:21 pm, Jim <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pat wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>I'm a little iffy about the idea of cooking a coated aluminum can
>>>inside my food, but it does taste good.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>That's why the cans are painted on the outside and coated with
>>something shiney (and probably not heat resistant) on the inside.
>>Whatever that paint stuff is, you get that instead of the metal.
>>I'll take my metal rack over the can ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>I knew a guy who worked for Valspar, the paint company that produces the
>coating on the inside of cans. He gave me a lecture about it once. As I
>remember, he said it was a polymer only 1 micron thick...just something to
>keep the liquid from cannabalizing the aluminum. Heat resistant? I dunno.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It would probably hold up on the inside coating as long as there was
still a fair amount of beer liquid left. The temperature would be kept
pretty near the boiling point of beer which is similar to that of water.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If the beer can went dry, then coating stuff could disintegrate from the
heat and lack of cooling liquid.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If the beer cans go dry, the diners could disintegrate from the heat and
lack of cooling liquid.

Quoted message said:

As an experienced Beer Can Chicken cook, I will provide some
information:
1- you empty half the beer (or whatever, it doesn't have to be beer),
and it
gets Very Hot

Are you saying that the beer doesn't flavor the chicken, that water
would be just as good? Or is there some benefit to seasonings or
flavorings in the liquid?

Water would serve the purpose of moisture, but beer gives it a nice
flavor.
Depending on the beer, you can get a lot or a little of the flavor. I
find wine
makes a nice fluid for this. Ditto fruit juices. Did a nice papaya
juice +
jerk rub chicken that was mildly fruity and very spicy. Very nice.

Depends on the seasoning. If it doesn't smell like anything, probably
not going
to impart much taste. It's key that you use stuff that has a lot of
aroma. If you
want spices that aren't gonna give up flavor, put em in a rub, and be
sure to rub
under the skin.

Quoted message said:

Would a liquid of water and soy sauce produce a different chicken taste,
for example? I would ask about teriyaki sauce, but I don't think my
spelling would be right.

I don't see why not. Some garlic, ginger, and maybe I dunno, green
onions. Soy
sauce, rice (or other mild) vinegar and maybe some water. Nice.

em said:

Yesterday I found what might be one of those "intolerances" of which you
speak. Around 6pm I had two small bags of peanuts, 5 carbs ea. By 10:30 I
felt bloated and had to let my belt out a notch. This morning my physical
weight was up 2.5 pounds from yesterday. (Water. I know)

I like to do a "3 strikes and you're out" plan to confirm an
intolerance. Now that you think peanuts are a suspect,
avoid them for a month or two then try them again under
different circumstances. Then another month or two later
a third attempt. By then you can be quite certain.

Quoted message said:

Earlier in the day, maybe 2pm, I had some corned beef from the deli. It
could have been that but I doubt it.

That's the deal - Two unknowns so you can't pick one and
be certain. It's a guess, so confirm that guess by experiment.

Quoted message said:

I'm starting to look at this more
like an experiment than a diet, and that's a good thing for somebody (like
me) who tends to get a bit obsessed.

Atkins from day 15 to start of Maintenance is one big
sequence of experiments. The end result is a fully
customized plan tuned to how your own body reacts.
Lots of work to do it completely by the directions.

Jim said:

Hollywood said:

As an experienced Beer Can Chicken cook, I will provide some
information:
1- you empty half the beer (or whatever, it doesn't have to be
beer), and it gets Very Hot

Quoted message said:

Are you saying that the beer doesn't flavor the chicken, that water
would be just as good? Or is there some benefit to seasonings or
flavorings in the liquid?

A guy I know tried non-alcoholic beer, and he said he could tell a
difference, that it wasn't as good. Maybe the alcohol has some
effect.

Hollywood, thanks for all the ideas. I'll be trying this more often
from now on!

--
Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz