training question

Michelle said:

Which is better:

a. rest the day after three days of running, followed by cross training
the next day, and a long run the day after that?

b. cross train the day after three days of running, followed by a rest
day, and a long run the day after that?

Not sure that it makes muich difference either way, but my preference would
be (a) to cross train (lightly!) the day after the running days, so that you
loosen up your legs a bit, and aree lsowll rested for the long run.

Cheers,
--
Elflord

Michelle said:

Which is better:

a. rest the day after three days of running, followed by cross training
the next day, and a long run the day after that?

b. cross train the day after three days of running, followed by a rest
day, and a long run the day after that?

You can experiment and find what works for you - and what you're doing
for xt. Cycling, swimming, and xc skiing might have different responses
(recovery times) than strength training or lifting. If you're doing
something like cycling, I'd probably run 3, rest, cycle (loosens legs),
long run. You may find it varies with your training also and what else
is going on in life. I tend to leave things flexible so I can adjust
things as needed if my body needs more recovery.

For me, I'd probably run 2 day, xt one day, easy run, rest, long run -
then rest. That keeps my running distributed throughout the week, rather
than 3 days in a row of running then 2 days of not running. BUT there
was a time when my feet were bad that I did use 2 days off before long run.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

"Michelle" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

a. rest the day after three days of running, followed by cross training
the next day, and a long run the day after that?

b. cross train the day after three days of running, followed by a rest
day, and a long run the day after that?

E: rest day, then long run day, then recovery day.

Disclaimer: I'm an old curmudgeon who only "crosstrains" when injured.
Running is compulsive enough for me without adding more must-dos.

Michelle said:

Which is better:

a. rest the day after three days of running, followed by cross training
the next day, and a long run the day after that?

b. cross train the day after three days of running, followed by a rest
day, and a long run the day after that?

c which ever your body responds better to. Personally when I do a rest
day, I might do an alternative actvity (basketball). Really i am only
resting from running, not totally resting. But my body can handle it.
You have to do what ever your body can do.

john

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dot dot.h@#duh?att.net said:

For me, I'd probably run 2 day, xt one day, easy run, rest, long run
- then rest. That keeps my running distributed throughout the week,
rather than 3 days in a row of running then 2 days of not running.
BUT there was a time when my feet were bad that I did use 2 days off
before long run.

Thanks, Dot (and to everyone else who answered). The training program
I'm following calls for
Monday: strength building
Tuesday: run
Wednesday: short run
Thursday: run and strength building
Friday: rest
Saturday: cross training (kind not specified)
Sunday: long run.

The cross training starts at 30 minutes the first two weeks, 40 the next
three, 50 the next three, and 60 the next three.

This past Saturday, I did 40 minutes on a stairmaster (the conveyor belt
kind), and I think that's one of the reasons (along with the heat) that
I wasn't able to run the entire five miles on Sunday.

I chose the stairmaster instead of spinning because the Nike Women's
half marathon has hills, and there aren't many opportunities for me to
run hills around here while training.

This week, I'll do the stairmaster on Friday and take Saturday off
(which will be a good thing because I'm hosting a dinner party that
evening) before running five miles again on Sunday.

--
Crossing the starting line is 90%.
Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

"Michelle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Which is better:

a. rest the day after three days of running, followed by cross training
the next day, and a long run the day after that?

b. cross train the day after three days of running, followed by a rest
day, and a long run the day after that?

As other's said, you have to experiment. I prefer to be flexible in my
schedule. If you're running 4 days per week, why 3 in a row? You could do
like:

mon: rest
tues: run short
wed: run short
thur: x-train
fri: run short
sat: strength
sun: run longer

I actually like doing the long run on Saturday when I can. Then you can
either take Sunday off, or hike, bike or something else. Currently, I seem
to be doing:

mon: rest
tues: run short / bike short
wed: bike med
thur: run short / bike short
fri: bike med
sat: run longer
sun: bike longer

Though sometimes it's good to mix it up week to week so you don't get bored.
So this week I might run long on Tuesday, since I haven't run longer yet
after my mountain 'marathon' 3 weeks ago, and I might race a 5k Saturday.

-Tony

In article <p5qyi.1917$wr3.1133@trndny04>,

Tony S. said:

As other's said, you have to experiment. I prefer to be flexible in
my schedule. If you're running 4 days per week, why 3 in a row?

Because that's what the training plan calls for. It's the Hal Higdon
novice half marathon training plan that I downloaded from his website.

I'm not nearly ready to design my own training plan, so I looked for one
by someone who has the reputation of knowing what he is doing.

--
Crossing the starting line is 90%.
Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

Michelle said:

In article <p5qyi.1917$wr3.1133@trndny04>,

Tony S. said:

As other's said, you have to experiment. I prefer to be flexible in
my schedule. If you're running 4 days per week, why 3 in a row?

Because that's what the training plan calls for. It's the Hal Higdon
novice half marathon training plan that I downloaded from his website.

I'm not nearly ready to design my own training plan, so I looked for one
by someone who has the reputation of knowing what he is doing.

Training plans are meant as guidelines. You won't find one reputable
author of a plan suggesting you need to follow it precisely. They are
meant to be changed - and that includes Higdon's stuff. Read the text
accompanying the schedule.

In particular, look at the "Juggling" section of Higdon's plan. Also
note that Wed can be running or xt. Also be sure to read the
"Cross-train" section - esp. the last sentence. Also the Stretch &
Strength section. Well, heck, read the whole thing.

Only *you* know how your body responds. You made the observation that
you had trouble recovering for the next day. Change something. Maybe
it's a matter of making the xt an easier day than what you are - or
making that middle running / xt day an xt day on the stairmaster (not
sure which machine this is since "conveyor belt" suggests tm to me, and
most stairmasters, I think, are stair steppers, not to be confused with
stepmills, which are like escalators) or changing days around.

I think you mentioned that you were working with a trainer for the
strength. You might want to be sure he/she recognizes you're training
for a half and doesn't give you too much.

For me ditching schedules all together was an easy concept: none of
these folks envisioned a late-50s woman relatively new runner trying to
follow one of these things in Alaska winter (hadn't started trails yet).
Even in my own planning, I never plan any details - just broad outlines
of where I want to be when. Admittedly some of that is what I've learned
through experience over time and dealing with weather / trail condition
issues up here. (Like agility work for mid-May races has to be done the
previous summer.) And I should have read Lydiard earlier.

The whole concept of flexibility was driven home to me while lurking on
a CR thread with Nobby and a bunch of the Lydiardites - experienced,
competitive runners and coaches (none of my weirdnesses). The numerous
ways that various "plans" were actually applied was truly incredible -
and knowing why they modified them. And they weren't even dealing with
winter snow on trails.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

PS: You may want to look very carefully at his rate of buildup - both
for the long runs and the total volume. (This was another reason I got
away from using schedules - they built too quickly and I don't think
adequately prepared me for races, but part of that is the hill issue.)
IIRC, you needed to add some additional weeks to C25K pgm. You may find
the same thing here to do it safely - maybe a slower increase, dropback
weeks, less xt, or whatever. But you're the only one that truly knows
how your body is feeling - whether you're doing the workouts ok or
struggling.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

"Tony S." wrote
| mon: rest
| tues: run short / bike short
| wed: bike med
| thur: run short / bike short
| fri: bike med
| sat: run longer
| sun: bike longer
|
| Though sometimes it's good to mix it up week to week so you don't get bored.
| So this week I might run long on Tuesday, since I haven't run longer yet
| after my mountain 'marathon' 3 weeks ago, and I might race a 5k Saturday.

I am with you Tony. I don't think it is easy to do 3 days in a row when one is just
starting to build up. I built up to 35+ mpw last year as beginner on 3 times/week
running schedule with walks in between. That was good enough for HM & 26.2.
I compared a few schedules and picked the ones that allow me to recover.
Even on 4 times a week schedule early this year, I preferred no more than
2 consecutive days of running.

I still don't follow the pace part any schedules that just makes me push
way too hard. I save any kind of pacing for the races based on how I 'feel'.

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

PS: You may want to look very carefully at his rate of buildup - both for
the long runs and the total volume. (This was another reason I got away
from using schedules - they built too quickly and I don't think adequately
prepared me for races, but part of that is the hill issue.) IIRC, you
needed to add some additional weeks to C25K pgm. You may find the same
thing here to do it safely - maybe a slower increase, dropback weeks, less
xt, or whatever. But you're the only one that truly knows how your body is
feeling - whether you're doing the workouts ok or struggling.

Dot

The last sentence is so important. I'm still learning about training and
what works for me after 25 years of running. The interesting thing is that
what works for me is always changing. This includes what my body can
physically handle generally and specifically in certain areas, adjusting my
schedule to the weather and the seasons, and, importantly, mixing things up
to keep running and the exercise mix as fresh as possible mentally.

If we get too caught up in set days or miles (or hours) per week, eventually
either injury or burnout will ensue. This is not to say there aren't times
when we push ourselves. It's precisely when we do push our limits that we
have to tailor our schedules, listen very closely to our bodies, and study
our recovery process carefully.

-Tony

D Stumpus said:

Disclaimer: I'm an old curmudgeon who only "crosstrains" when injured.
Running is compulsive enough for me without adding more must-dos.

Yes. Exactly. You'll never see me on a bike unless 1) my car is
broken or 2) I'm injured.

Karen

live! vicariously!

Quoted message said:

Dan said:

I'm an old curmudgeon who only "crosstrains" when injured.
Running is compulsive enough for me without adding more must-dos.

joe positive said:

Yes. Exactly. You'll never see me on a bike unless 1) my car
is broken or 2) I'm injured.

Me three.

Bought a used road bike in '04 and it's seen the road maybe a dozen
times since. It's not that cycling is so terrible - well, it ain't
exactly paradisaical here in The City - but I'd pretty much always
rather be running.

Though it also strikes me that a lot more chicks are potential cycling
partners than running accomplices.

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dan said:

I'm an old curmudgeon who only "crosstrains" when injured.
Running is compulsive enough for me without adding more must-dos.

joe positive said:

Yes. Exactly. You'll never see me on a bike unless 1) my car
is broken or 2) I'm injured.

Me three.

Bought a used road bike in '04 and it's seen the road maybe a dozen
times since. It's not that cycling is so terrible - well, it ain't
exactly paradisaical here in The City - but I'd pretty much always
rather be running.

Location is key for cycling, and weather is far more important than with
running. A scenic route on a nice day can make cycling a great pleasure. The
same distance in traffic on a cold rainy day is horrible, though I would say
the same when comparing trail running with road running. Location and
weather are greatly amplified when cycling. Hills are an acquired taste, but
I'd still much rather bike uphill than run uphill most of the time.

Quoted message said:

Though it also strikes me that a lot more chicks are potential cycling
partners than running accomplices.

True, though some don't mind riding alongside when you run. But as one of my
bike racing friends long ago cautioned me, many women look great on the
bike. You've gotta check things out carefully once they get off the bike 😉
And, lo and behold, I've had one or two frightening moments along those
lines.

-Tony, who, yes, also realizes that personality is key...

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Dot dot.h@#duh?att.net said:

Training plans are meant as guidelines. You won't find one reputable
author of a plan suggesting you need to follow it precisely. They are
meant to be changed - and that includes Higdon's stuff. Read the text
accompanying the schedule.

In particular, look at the "Juggling" section of Higdon's plan. Also
note that Wed can be running or xt. Also be sure to read the
"Cross-train" section - esp. the last sentence. Also the Stretch &
Strength section. Well, heck, read the whole thing.

I did; maybe I need to read it again. <g> First cut, though, was to do
it as written, to see what if anything needs to be changed. First
change I'm making is to switch Friday and Saturday.

I opted to run on Wednesday; I think that that would help me more than
xt would. Because Wednesday is a short run, I'm using it to try to
build up speed and to do hills (not the same day, though; alternating
weeks).

Quoted message said:

or making that middle running / xt day an xt day on the stairmaster
(not sure which machine this is since "conveyor belt" suggests tm to
me, and most stairmasters, I think, are stair steppers, not to be
confused with stepmills, which are like escalators) or changing days
around.

It's a stepmill; I didn't know the term at the time I wrote that
message. It's a Stairmaster branded stepmill.

Quoted message said:

I think you mentioned that you were working with a trainer for the
strength. You might want to be sure he/she recognizes you're training
for a half and doesn't give you too much.

He does understand that; it's the first thing I mentioned and stressed
when speaking with him. And the nice thing is that he's doing it for
free. He's the assistant manager of the gym, which is still under
construction, and behind schedule. I told him that the reason I joined
up was to help me train for the race and was bothered about the delay
from the date he told me that it would open. He offered to train me at
another branch of the same gym, for free, until this one opened.
(Because he is an assistant manager and not employed as a personal
trainer, he's not allowed to charge for training there.)

Thanks.

--
Crossing the starting line is 90%.
Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Dot dot.h@#duh?att.net said:

PS: You may want to look very carefully at his rate of buildup - both
for the long runs and the total volume. (This was another reason I
got away from using schedules - they built too quickly and I don't
think adequately prepared me for races, but part of that is the hill
issue.) IIRC, you needed to add some additional weeks to C25K pgm.
You may find the same thing here to do it safely - maybe a slower
increase, dropback weeks, less xt, or whatever.

That would be nice, but I started it with no room for that; it is a
12-week plan and I gave myself twelve weeks to finish it. But I
realized this morning that I might not be able to keep up with that rate
of buildup, and if I can't keep up, I'll do what I am able to do. If I
don't get through the entire program before race time, I'll do whatever
I'm capable of in the race, but I will cross that finish line before the
close down the course.

--
Crossing the starting line is 90%.
Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

"joe positive" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

D Stumpus said:

Disclaimer: I'm an old curmudgeon who only "crosstrains" when
injured.
Running is compulsive enough for me without adding more must-dos.

Yes. Exactly. You'll never see me on a bike unless 1) my car is
broken or 2) I'm injured.

Maybe if you cross-trained a little more you might be injured less. 🙂

-Doug

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:04:10 -0400, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Maybe if you cross-trained a little more you might be injured less. 🙂

-Doug

When was the last time I was injured? I'll bet you have no idea. You
just wanted to take this opportunity to pontificate. Save it for your
harem.

live! vicariously!