Junior Worlds

dm69 said:

Diego Ulissi must be something special to have won last year as a first year junior!!! now to back up again is pretty special. Don't want to turn this into a doping thread but I heard his coach is Ferrari? Correct me if im wrong.
.

Dunno about that...

The kids got balls though, In a tour I did recently he attacked with about 50k to go in one stage and held of a 50 strong bunch then won the TT in the arvo, impressive.

The Italian junior road racing is the strongest around so no surprises they kicked [censored].

Jono L said:

Dunno about that...

The kids got balls though, In a tour I did recently he attacked with about 50k to go in one stage and held of a 50 strong bunch then won the TT in the arvo, impressive.

The Italian junior road racing is the strongest around so no surprises they kicked [censored].

Yer I could be wrong I just remember seeing his name in procycling for an article about Ferrari i think it was? Better double check that...

He definitely has a fair amount of talent!

dm69 said:

Yer I could be wrong I just remember seeing his name in procycling for an article about Ferrari i think it was? Better double check that...

He definitely has a fair amount of talent!

I think it was Dr Checchini.

dm69 said:

Any thoughts on the junior worlds? I have been following the aussies quite closely. We had some very strong performances on the track, somewhat of a gold rush. Josephine Tomic won the womens time trial and in the mens we placed both our riders in the top 9! Road race didnt go quite to plan. Italians way too good!!!

Diego Ulissi must be something special to have won last year as a first year junior!!! now to back up again is pretty special. Don't want to turn this into a doping thread but I heard his coach is Ferrari? Correct me if im wrong.

1 Diego Ulissi (Ita) 3.07.05 (42.847 km/h)
2 Daniele Ratto (Ita)
3 Elia Favilli (Ita) 0.03
4 Peter Sagan (Svk) 0.04
5 John Degenkolb (Ger) 0.29
6 Alfredo Balloni (Ita) 0.30
7 Danny Summerhill (USA)
8 Jeffry Johan Romero Corredor (Col)
9 Vasco Pereira (Por) 0.33
10 Travis Meyer (Aus) 0.45

1 Eleonora Patuzzo (Italy) 2.17.40 (35.019 km/h)
2 Cherise Taylor (South Africa)
3 Valentina Scandolara (Italy)

All the good australian roadies were strong junior track riders with one exception Cadel Evans. I dont even own a track bike but I think I better do something about that lol.

The word on the street from the kids I know who went to junior worlds last year was that NO QUESTION a lot of kids were on the full program. Wasnt it the Belgian kids blazing last year, I cant recall.

bobke said:

The word on the street from the kids I know who went to junior worlds last year was that NO QUESTION a lot of kids were on the full program. Wasnt it the Belgian kids blazing last year, I cant recall.

Bobke why dont you [censored] off back to DPforums.

You aint got a clue.

You had no idea who Sergei Honchar was last year when he won at the Tour, a man who has the strongest TT palmares in the professional era, far above Rich, Voigt, Millar, Rogers, Cancellara, and Peschel.

Learn.

How the heck would have your guys "known" they were on a full program?

Just how would you?

Please tell?

You, ofcourse, know that Armstrong was clean, thankyou for that revelation. With a revelation like that, perhaps you do know what the Italians are doing, cos no one else knows what they are, for certainty.

Jono L, I reckon they prolly doped too, and it means nothing if he was kicking your butts a few weeks back, but, he was kicking your butts. Does not mean he was doping, does not mean he was not doping.

Do you still have another year in the UCI jnrs Jono? Did any of that Italian tour Aus squad go to worlds, or was it a first year jnr team.

thunder said:

Bobke why dont you [censored] off back to DPforums.

You aint got a clue.

You had no idea who Sergei Honchar was last year when he won at the Tour, a man who has the strongest TT palmares in the professional era, far above Rich, Voigt, Millar, Rogers, Cancellara, and Peschel.

Learn.

How the heck would have your guys "known" they were on a full program?

Just how would you?

Please tell?

You, ofcourse, know that Armstrong was clean, thankyou for that revelation. With a revelation like that, perhaps you do know what the Italians are doing, cos no one else knows what they are, for certainty.

Jono L, I reckon they prolly doped too, and it means nothing if he was kicking your butts a few weeks back, but, he was kicking your butts. Does not mean he was doping, does not mean he was not doping.

Do you still have another year in the UCI jnrs Jono? Did any of that Italian tour Aus squad go to worlds, or was it a first year jnr team.

Jono never said they doped! He just said he was a very strong rider! I never meant to say that Ulissi is a doper, just that he has a link with a few questionable doctors. If it is infact Cecchini then I suppose that isn't as bad as ferrari?

Just because the belgians are strong or the Italians are strong mean they are doping. Im pretty sure they have been strong for a long while now!!! haha.

Didnt want this to become a doping thread, we already have a fair few of those...

I would also like to know if this is Jono's first year u19 or not, I will probably run into him a lot more next year.

Nah 2nd year junior. U23's next yaer.

I really doubt there'd be that many doping at m19's. The general impression I gained is that it starts picking up in 23's when everyone is gunning for a contract.

dm69 said:

Jono never said they doped! He just said he was a very strong rider! I never meant to say that Ulissi is a doper, just that he has a link with a few questionable doctors. If it is infact Cecchini then I suppose that isn't as bad as ferrari?

Just because the belgians are strong or the Italians are strong mean they are doping. Im pretty sure they have been strong for a long while now!!! haha.

Didnt want this to become a doping thread, we already have a fair few of those...

I would also like to know if this is Jono's first year u19 or not, I will probably run into him a lot more next year.

I know Jono never said they did, but others did, or Bobke did.

Mcgee says FDJ will not sign an Italian nor a Spaniard. Either Mcgee (and FDJ
) is a bigot or he knows things. Mcgee aint a bigot.

Jono, you did not ride Mexico? Did any of your teammates in Italy ride worlds? Some were at track worlds, Bobridge and Meyers.

Whatever he was, he was damn strong, two years in a row. I saw in some of those images, he was wearing a Lampre TT helmet I think, or a road helmet, plus a Wilier in Lampre colours, assume he rides on their feeder team, and probably will sign with their Protour squad.

dm69 said:

Any thoughts on the junior worlds? I have been following the aussies quite closely. We had some very strong performances on the track, somewhat of a gold rush. Josephine Tomic won the womens time trial and in the mens we placed both our riders in the top 9! Road race didnt go quite to plan. Italians way too good!!!

Diego Ulissi must be something special to have won last year as a first year junior!!! now to back up again is pretty special. Don't want to turn this into a doping thread but I heard his coach is Ferrari? Correct me if im wrong.

1 Diego Ulissi (Ita) 3.07.05 (42.847 km/h)
2 Daniele Ratto (Ita)
3 Elia Favilli (Ita) 0.03
4 Peter Sagan (Svk) 0.04
5 John Degenkolb (Ger) 0.29
6 Alfredo Balloni (Ita) 0.30
7 Danny Summerhill (USA)
8 Jeffry Johan Romero Corredor (Col)
9 Vasco Pereira (Por) 0.33
10 Travis Meyer (Aus) 0.45

1 Eleonora Patuzzo (Italy) 2.17.40 (35.019 km/h)
2 Cherise Taylor (South Africa)
3 Valentina Scandolara (Italy)

All the good australian roadies were strong junior track riders with one exception Cadel Evans. I dont even own a track bike but I think I better do something about that lol.

I'm loving the current South African showing on the world stage - first South African sponsored team in the tour - first South African stage win and now a silver medal in the Junior lady's race.

Congratulations Cherise - many spectators said you were the most aggressive and hardest working rider on the day.

Summerhill is good. He podiumed at cyclocross worlds.

thunder said:

Jono, you did not ride Mexico? Did any of your teammates in Italy ride worlds? Some were at track worlds, Bobridge and Meyers.

Whatever he was, he was damn strong, two years in a row. I saw in some of those images, he was wearing a Lampre TT helmet I think, or a road helmet, plus a Wilier in Lampre colours, assume he rides on their feeder team, and probably will sign with their Protour squad.

3 of em went to Mexico for worlds and me and Adam hung round then came home.

BTW- Team Vangi is the junior team, they're a neat operation. They are all kitted up in Lampre gear though.. not sure on the exact deal there.

Jono L said:

3 of em went to Mexico for worlds and me and Adam hung round then came home.

BTW- Team Vangi is the junior team, they're a neat operation. They are all kitted up in Lampre gear though.. not sure on the exact deal there.

Jono, it is compulsory for every Protour team to have a formal u23 outfit. The UCI instituted this in the most recent 3 years ago, incarnation of the Protour.

Thus, you went head to head against the Milram and Lampre u23 squads you were saying.

Each Protour squad is also compelled to have 2 u23 riders per team.

Thus the U23 world champs, is a little skewed, as there will be a minimum of 38 riders who are inelligible because they have pro contracts in the Protour.

BTW, good effort on jnr selection and near worlds selection. Did not realise you were on the cusp. Small squads for jnr worlds too.

Jono, how is Leigh Howard progressing, as a roadie?

thunder said:

Jono, it is compulsory for every Protour team to have a formal u23 outfit. The UCI instituted this in the most recent 3 years ago, incarnation of the Protour.

Thus, you went head to head against the Milram and Lampre u23 squads you were saying.

Each Protour squad is also compelled to have 2 u23 riders per team.

Thus the U23 world champs, is a little skewed, as there will be a minimum of 38 riders who are inelligible because they have pro contracts in the Protour.

BTW, good effort on jnr selection and near worlds selection. Did not realise you were on the cusp. Small squads for jnr worlds too.

Jono, how is Leigh Howard progressing, as a roadie?

Milram and Lampre U19 squads. IT's all different at junior level though, ie. the Milram team was called "FOR-3-Milram" not officially, Milram u19 team, or Milram juniors team, but they were completely kitted up, same bikes, team van, kit, coaches, everything.

From memory we raced-

Acqua e sapone
Liquigas
Milram
Preddictor-Lotto
Lampre (team Vangi)

BUT, it was hard to tell exactly what the connections were. EG, Acqua e Sapone were actually called Acqua e Sapone. Whereas the guys all kitted up exactly the same as Predictor-Lotto were caled ""Velo-Club Ardennes." So it's hard to differentiate between real feeder teams and strong clubs with a good sponsorhips deal/connection with a local pro etc.

Howard's is a dam good roadie. Can get over hills easily and if it comes down to a sprint well it's almost a for gone conclusion, that's why I always attack😄

Jono L said:

Milram and Lampre U19 squads. IT's all different at junior level though, ie. the Milram team was called "FOR-3-Milram" not officially, Milram u19 team, or Milram juniors team, but they were completely kitted up, same bikes, team van, kit, coaches, everything.

From memory we raced-

Acqua e sapone
Liquigas
Milram
Preddictor-Lotto
Lampre (team Vangi)

BUT, it was hard to tell exactly what the connections were. EG, Acqua e Sapone were actually called Acqua e Sapone. Whereas the guys all kitted up exactly the same as Predictor-Lotto were caled ""Velo-Club Ardennes." So it's hard to differentiate between real feeder teams and strong clubs with a good sponsorhips deal/connection with a local pro etc.

Howard's is a dam good roadie. Can get over hills easily and if it comes down to a sprint well it's almost a for gone conclusion, that's why I always attack😄

is Craven or Trevorrow giving you a wildcard to HeraldSun Tour or Bay Crits?

thunder said:

is Craven or Trevorrow giving you a wildcard to HeraldSun Tour or Bay Crits?

Herlad Sun tour ain't allowed, still technically U19 at that stage (plus finshing year 12, plus it'd be too late now anyway)..

Gonna look into bay crits. not keen on doing support again, soft, but hey I like my skin ON my body, especially with nationals only a week or so after..

Craven has nothing to do with the Sun Tour now Thunder, and Trevorrow has never had a $$$ stake in it except when he was winning the thing or working as a journo on it, but he still owns the baycrits.

Leigh Howard is one of the classiest looking riders I've ever seen. Fantastic position on the bike and smooth as anything.

Its quite easy to know when other riders around you are on the full program. Ask Chris Horner or read his recent interview in cyclingnews, or ask Michael Barry who wrote the article in velonews about "it seems that the Spanish riders always fly up the road like motorcycles when they race in Spain."

If you are a junior world level track cyclist and compete since age 14 and have done a number of US championship and a number of PanAm and world cup races, you follow the names and the times people are putting down. If you show up and a group or number of riders are unexplainably suddenly a level or two above where they have been, and leaping over people thay have not beaten, and LOOK different than they have in other races...those would be a few clues.

And then in the points races where everyone is going full on and you look at the guy nest to you and he isnt breathing through his mouth, another subtle clue...

Of course juniors mature at different rates and some bloom early and some late, but there is no reason to think that junior arent on the full program, especially when a few didnt pass the 50% health check before the races even started. A few subtle clues like that.

Yes, yes.

Shane Perkins doping sanction comes to mind.

Then there was that ugly business in December 2003 at the AIS Delmonte Campus, that used Mark French and Jobe Dajka as scapegoats for massive injections of eGH and Testicomp.

Then we have Lance Armstrong's teammates from the USA Olympic Training Camp (Greg Strock, Erich Kaiter, David Francis, Garrett Latta) all received injections before the age of 18.

Horner and Barry are funny---they profess to know the doping of others, yet
remain silent as to their own programs. Some people think Horner rides like a motorcycle too.

Myths and themes rule the media world of sport.

bobke said:

Its quite easy to know when other riders around you are on the full program. Ask Chris Horner or read his recent interview in cyclingnews, or ask Michael Barry who wrote the article in velonews about "it seems that the Spanish riders always fly up the road like motorcycles when they race in Spain."

If you are a junior world level track cyclist and compete since age 14 and have done a number of US championship and a number of PanAm and world cup races, you follow the names and the times people are putting down. If you show up and a group or number of riders are unexplainably suddenly a level or two above where they have been, and leaping over people thay have not beaten, and LOOK different than they have in other races...those would be a few clues.

And then in the points races where everyone is going full on and you look at the guy nest to you and he isnt breathing through his mouth, another subtle clue...

Of course juniors mature at different rates and some bloom early and some late, but there is no reason to think that junior arent on the full program, especially when a few didnt pass the 50% health check before the races even started. A few subtle clues like that.

bobke said:

Its quite easy to know when other riders around you are on the full program. Ask Chris Horner or read his recent interview in cyclingnews, or ask Michael Barry who wrote the article in velonews about "it seems that the Spanish riders always fly up the road like motorcycles when they race in Spain."

If you are a junior world level track cyclist and compete since age 14 and have done a number of US championship and a number of PanAm and world cup races, you follow the names and the times people are putting down. If you show up and a group or number of riders are unexplainably suddenly a level or two above where they have been, and leaping over people thay have not beaten, and LOOK different than they have in other races...those would be a few clues.

And then in the points races where everyone is going full on and you look at the guy nest to you and he isnt breathing through his mouth, another subtle clue...

Of course juniors mature at different rates and some bloom early and some late, but there is no reason to think that junior arent on the full program, especially when a few didnt pass the 50% health check before the races even started. A few subtle clues like that.

so, are you willing to concede now Armstrong was on the full program, or are we gonna continue this chirade you [censored]