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Rear Luggage Rack Web Site Update

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Cycling Equipment
Published
10 August 2007
Last activity
20 August 2007
Original author
SMS
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  1. I've updated my rear rack site at "http://nordicgroup.us/rearracks/".
    This site looks at long rear luggage racks that provide sufficient heel
    clearance for use with large panniers, for persons with big feet.

    This quest started when I purchased an Arkel Bug pannier/backpack and
    found that my current rack (Blackburn Expedition) was too short, and my
    foot would hit the bag with every pedal revolution.

    I've also included information and photos of how to shift the rack
    position back a couple of inches, and how to mount racks on bicycles
    where the seat stay braze-ons are too far back to use the brackets that
    are included with the rack.

    If anyone knows of any racks I've missed on the site, please let me know.

    Steve
    "http://nordicgroup.us/rearracks/"

  2. SMS said:

    I've updated my rear rack site at "http://nordicgroup.us/rearracks/".

    Quoted message said:

    If anyone knows of any racks I've missed on the site, please let me know.

    Well, there's the rack that comes with the Trek 520. I don't know if it
    is available separately, but it is worth showing as an example of a rack
    to stay away from.

    It seems to be designed to be as difficult as possible to use with
    Ortlieb panniers. There are all kinds of unnecessary metal and double
    tubes such that there is only one fore/aft mount position and even
    there, the Ortlieb attachment doesn't quite fit. Quick on/off is
    completely defeated.

    The reflector mount is far too flimsy to mount a 2 AA VistaLite.

    The amount of the purchase price of a 520 that goes to the rack is
    completely wasted.

    Quoted message said:

    Steve
    "http://nordicgroup.us/rearracks/"


    --
    Diesel exhaust stinks.
    John P. Serafin | Operating a bicycle is more like driving than riding.
    jps at pobox com | Operating an automobile is more like riding than driving.

  3. John Serafin said:

    The amount of the purchase price of a 520 that goes to the rack is
    completely wasted.

    Trek should just drop the 520, they've wrecked it so badly, and it's
    still expensive. Is it the only CroMo bike sold under the Trek brand?

    For touring, the Surly Long Haul Trucker, or even the Fuji
    Touring/Windsor Tour is a better choice. The REI Randonee is also a good
    choice, and it goes on sale quite often, and the rack is very good.

  4. SMS said:

    I've updated my rear rack site at "http://nordicgroup.us/rearracks/".
    This site looks at long rear luggage racks that provide sufficient heel
    clearance for use with large panniers, for persons with big feet.

    I noticed your discussion of tail light mounting, where you talk about
    using a standard reflector bracket and suggest various lights including
    the Cateye LD1000. How were you able to get it to stay in place? I found
    that because the light is so heavy I couldn't get it to stop pivoting
    downward until I braced it against the underside of the rack. I even
    tried gluing the reflector bracket to the rack but it broke loose on
    a rough road.

    Other than the weight, I've been quite happy with the light.

  5. On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:42:58 -0700, SMS <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    John Serafin said:

    The amount of the purchase price of a 520 that goes to the rack is
    completely wasted.

    Trek should just drop the 520, they've wrecked it so badly, and it's
    still expensive. Is it the only CroMo bike sold under the Trek brand?

    For touring, the Surly Long Haul Trucker, or even the Fuji
    Touring/Windsor Tour is a better choice. The REI Randonee is also a good
    choice, and it goes on sale quite often, and the rack is very good.

    Racks are passe.

    Longtails are the super haulers of the future.

    The Xtracycle's ability to carry loads and passengers seems to have
    spawned a new breed of bike. They're probably improvements over the
    attached FreeRadical which is still just about the ultimate rack.

    In addition to the custom Fraser, there are some more production
    longtail bikes lined up for 2008 besides the Yuba and Surly.

    Kona has its new Ute and I read Giant is also releasing one in N.A.
    There could well be a few more at Interbike.

    Surly Big Dummy: <http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/FM3066>
    Kona Ute: <http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/kona_ute_white.jpg>
    Yuba Mondo: <http://yubaride.com/>
    Fraser Cycles Frontier: <http://www.frasercycles.com/bike.shtml>
    Xtracycle: <http://www.xtracycle.com/>
    --
    zk

  6. Zoot Katz said:

    On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:42:58 -0700, SMS <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    John Serafin said:

    The amount of the purchase price of a 520 that goes to the rack is
    completely wasted.


    Trek should just drop the 520, they've wrecked it so badly, and it's
    still expensive. Is it the only CroMo bike sold under the Trek brand?

    For touring, the Surly Long Haul Trucker, or even the Fuji
    Touring/Windsor Tour is a better choice. The REI Randonee is also a good
    choice, and it goes on sale quite often, and the rack is very good.

    Racks are passe.

    Longtails are the super haulers of the future.

    The Xtracycle's ability to carry loads and passengers seems to have
    spawned a new breed of bike. They're probably improvements over the
    attached FreeRadical which is still just about the ultimate rack.

    In addition to the custom Fraser, there are some more production
    longtail bikes lined up for 2008 besides the Yuba and Surly.

    Kona has its new Ute and I read Giant is also releasing one in N.A.
    There could well be a few more at Interbike.

    Surly Big Dummy: <http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/FM3066>

    eh? lateral stiffness? does anybody ever get taught about
    triangulation at engineering school any more?

    Quoted message said:

    Kona Ute: <http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/kona_ute_white.jpg>

    ok.

    Quoted message said:

    Yuba Mondo: <http://yubaride.com/>

    nope. see surly.

    Quoted message said:

    Fraser Cycles Frontier: <http://www.frasercycles.com/bike.shtml>

    nope. see yuba.

    Quoted message said:

    Xtracycle: <http://www.xtracycle.com/>

    at least that's a conversion and the frame is not compromised. probably
    the best bet of the lot.

  7. Zoot Katz said:


    Racks are passe.

    Longtails are the super haulers of the future....

    For real hauling I would just get a SUV.
    <http://organicengines.com/products/the-sensible-utility-vehicle-aka-the-suv/>
    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  8. Tom 'Johnny Sunset' Sherman said:
    Zoot Katz said:


    Racks are passe.

    Longtails are the super haulers of the future....

    For real hauling I would just get a SUV.
    <http://organicengines.com/products/the-sensible-utility-vehicle-aka-the-suv/>

    do you have to lie down for /everything/ tom?

  9. jim beam said:
    Tom 'Johnny Sunset' Sherman said:
    Zoot Katz said:


    Racks are passe.

    Longtails are the super haulers of the future....

    For real hauling I would just get a SUV.
    <http://organicengines.com/products/the-sensible-utility-vehicle-aka-the-suv/>

    do you have to lie down for /everything/ tom?

    Yes. 😉 I am just a laid back person.

    Not having to worry about balance is nice at low speeds and when
    stopping, especially with a heavy load. Climbing at anything but a low
    speed with a heavy load is not an option for 99% of us (assuming human
    only power).
    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  10. Quoted message said:

    Well, there's the rack that comes with the Trek 520. I don't know if it
    is available separately, but it is worth showing as an example of a rack
    to stay away from.

    It seems to be designed to be as difficult as possible to use with
    Ortlieb panniers. There are all kinds of unnecessary metal and double
    tubes such that there is only one fore/aft mount position and even
    there, the Ortlieb attachment doesn't quite fit. Quick on/off is
    completely defeated.

    It might not work with the Ortlieb, haven't tried it. But we've certainly
    used many other panniers on them without issue.

    Quoted message said:

    The reflector mount is far too flimsy to mount a 2 AA VistaLite.

    I'll have to look into that some more; haven't had anybody bring it up as an
    issue. I know we haven't had any returned with the mount broken though.

    Quoted message said:

    The amount of the purchase price of a 520 that goes to the rack is
    completely wasted.

    Apparently that's the case if you want to use Ortlieb panniers; I'll take
    your word for it. But it's certainly capable enough for others. We sell a
    fair number of 520s, and they get used pretty heavily. It's a bike that
    almost never comes back with problems. Very conservative design, downright
    boringly so. For excitement they change the color to a different shade of
    green from time to time (although the current one is actually black I
    think... how rad!).

    --Mike Jacoubowsky
    Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReaction.com
    Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

  11. Steve Gravrock said:
    SMS said:

    I've updated my rear rack site at "http://nordicgroup.us/rearracks/".
    This site looks at long rear luggage racks that provide sufficient heel
    clearance for use with large panniers, for persons with big feet.

    I noticed your discussion of tail light mounting, where you talk about
    using a standard reflector bracket and suggest various lights including
    the Cateye LD1000. How were you able to get it to stay in place? I found
    that because the light is so heavy I couldn't get it to stop pivoting
    downward until I braced it against the underside of the rack. I even
    tried gluing the reflector bracket to the rack but it broke loose on
    a rough road.

    Other than the weight, I've been quite happy with the light.

    On the rack I use it on, the little plastic stud goes into one hole on
    the bracket, and the included screw goes through the other hole into the
    light. It's very solidly mounted and didn't pivot or rotate. However I
    was uneasy about the single screw into the plastic of the light, so I
    used some very thin cable ties around the body of the light and the
    reflector bracket. These were probably unnecessary, but the light is so
    expensive that I didn't want to risk it falling off if I hit a bump.

  12. Mike Jacoubowsky said:

    Apparently that's the case if you want to use Ortlieb panniers; I'll take
    your word for it. But it's certainly capable enough for others. We sell a
    fair number of 520s, and they get used pretty heavily. It's a bike that
    almost never comes back with problems. Very conservative design, downright
    boringly so. For excitement they change the color to a different shade of
    green from time to time (although the current one is actually black I
    think... how rad!).

    I counted six obvious issues with the 520 rack.

    First of all, touring racks should have three struts for sufficient
    stiffness and strength for fully loaded touring.

    Second, the rear strut should be a “dogleg” strut because this keeps
    panniers from hitting the wheel when they are mounted toward the rear.
    Blackburn realized this with their Expedition EX-2 rack, which updated
    their popular EX-1 which lacked the dogleg.

    Third, the struts should meet very close to the threaded mounting hole
    by the rear axle.

    Fourth, double tubing should not be used at any point along the side
    rails, as many pannier mounting systems won’t work with double tubing
    (i.e. the Arkel mount). At a minimum, the double tubing should not be
    near the back of the rack.

    Fifth, there should not be a load stop at the front of the rack (though
    Trek is hardly alone in this).

    Sixth, if positioning panniers toward the rear, there is no place to
    attach the bottom hook of the pannier's shock cord without bringing it
    down at at about a 40 degree angle, which tends to lift the front hook
    up off the rack.

    On the plus side, It does appear to be a rather long rack. It's also
    probably very light.

    I think Trek realizes that the 520 is not really a touring bicycle, and
    that no one is going to pile a tent, sleeping bag, and heavy panniers
    onto that rack.

    Since Trek listens to you, maybe you can encourage them to switch to a
    better rack on the 520.

  13. SMS said:
    John Serafin said:

    The amount of the purchase price of a 520 that goes to the rack is
    completely wasted.

    Trek should just drop the 520, they've wrecked it so badly, and it's
    still expensive.

    "they've wrecked it"? How so?

    IMO, it's more expensive than it's competition, but that's true of
    every bike bearing the Trek name these days. That price premium
    doesn't seem to dampen sales, sice Trek is currently perceived,
    rightly or wrongly, as a 'premium' brand.

    It would be a sad day were Trek to discontinue the 520.

    Quoted message said:

    Is it the only CroMo bike sold under the Trek brand?

    For touring, the Surly Long Haul Trucker, or even the Fuji
    Touring/Windsor Tour is a better choice. The REI Randonee is also a good
    choice, and it goes on sale quite often, and the rack is very good.

  14. SMS said:
    Mike Jacoubowsky said:

    Apparently that's the case if you want to use Ortlieb panniers; I'll take
    your word for it. But it's certainly capable enough for others. We sell a
    fair number of 520s, and they get used pretty heavily. It's a bike that
    almost never comes back with problems. Very conservative design, downright
    boringly so. For excitement they change the color to a different shade of
    green from time to time (although the current one is actually black I
    think... how rad!).

    I counted six obvious issues with the 520 rack.

    First of all, touring racks should have three struts for sufficient
    stiffness and strength for fully loaded touring.

    Second, the rear strut should be a "dogleg" strut because this keeps
    panniers from hitting the wheel when they are mounted toward the rear.
    Blackburn realized this with their Expedition EX-2 rack, which updated
    their popular EX-1 which lacked the dogleg.

    Third, the struts should meet very close to the threaded mounting hole
    by the rear axle.

    Fourth, double tubing should not be used at any point along the side
    rails, as many pannier mounting systems won't work with double tubing
    (i.e. the Arkel mount). At a minimum, the double tubing should not be
    near the back of the rack.

    Fifth, there should not be a load stop at the front of the rack (though
    Trek is hardly alone in this).

    Sixth, if positioning panniers toward the rear, there is no place to
    attach the bottom hook of the pannier's shock cord without bringing it
    down at at about a 40 degree angle, which tends to lift the front hook
    up off the rack.

    On the plus side, It does appear to be a rather long rack. It's also
    probably very light.

    I think Trek realizes that the 520 is not really a touring bicycle, and
    that no one is going to pile a tent, sleeping bag, and heavy panniers
    onto that rack.

    Do you mean that Trek probably knows that the 520 is rarely *used* as
    a true loaded touring bike? That's about the customers, not the bike.
    There's no real reason that a 520 is not suitable for use as a touring
    bike.

    Quoted message said:


    Since Trek listens to you, maybe you can encourage them to switch to a
    better rack on the 520.

    IMO, the best decision would be to leave the rack off the factory
    build and let the shop help the buyer chose a rack suitable for their
    intended use.

  15. "SMS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I've updated my rear rack site at "http://nordicgroup.us/rearracks/". This
    site looks at long rear luggage racks that provide sufficient heel
    clearance for use with large panniers, for persons with big feet.

    In your discussion of racks, you've missed off triangulation - where the
    stays come into the rack at slightly different angles. Makes for a less
    floppy rack.

    BTW I'm fairly tall (6'2"😉 and my "compact" frame works very well. Which
    sort of puts your comment that they only work for short people in
    perspective.

    cheers,
    clive

  16. Clive George said:

    "SMS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I've updated my rear rack site at "http://nordicgroup.us/rearracks/".
    This site looks at long rear luggage racks that provide sufficient
    heel clearance for use with large panniers, for persons with big feet.

    In your discussion of racks, you've missed off triangulation - where the
    stays come into the rack at slightly different angles. Makes for a less
    floppy rack.

    Thanks, that's a very good point. I'll add it to the site.

  17. Quoted message said:
    Zoot Katz said:

    Racks are passe.
    Longtails are the super haulers of the future....

    Tom 'Johnny Sunset' Sherman said:

    For real hauling I would just get a SUV.
    <http://organicengines.com/products/the-sensible-utility-vehicle-aka-the-suv/>

    Guy says "Whaddya got I can drive the wife around in?"
    http://www.yellowjersey.org/organic.html
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  18. Zoot Katz said:

    On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:42:58 -0700, SMS <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    John Serafin wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The amount of the purchase price of a 520 that goes to the rack is
    completely wasted.

    Quoted message said:

    Trek should just drop the 520, they've wrecked it so badly, and it's
    still expensive. Is it the only CroMo bike sold under the Trek brand?

    Quoted message said:

    For touring, the Surly Long Haul Trucker, or even the Fuji
    Touring/Windsor Tour is a better choice. The REI Randonee is also a good
    choice, and it goes on sale quite often, and the rack is very good.

    Racks are passe.

    Longtails are the super haulers of the future.

    The Xtracycle's ability to carry loads and passengers seems to have
    spawned a new breed of bike. They're probably improvements over the
    attached FreeRadical which is still just about the ultimate rack.

    In addition to the custom Fraser, there are some more production
    longtail bikes lined up for 2008 besides the Yuba and Surly.

    Kona has its new Ute and I read Giant is also releasing one in N.A.
    There could well be a few more at Interbike.

    Surly Big Dummy: <http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/FM3066>
    Kona Ute: <http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/kona_ute_white.jpg>
    Yuba Mondo: <http://yubaride.com/>
    Fraser Cycles Frontier: <http://www.frasercycles.com/bike.shtml>
    Xtracycle: <http://www.xtracycle.com/>
    --
    zk

    Sheesh, folks who have axes to grind, and not enough thought process
    to figure out all the angles, perhaps should go back to the whetstone
    for a bit.

    Beside the dearth of engineering to make these beasts stiff enough,
    esp. laterally, the other big issue is that they are too long for many
    modes of public transit. Hit a train system that is crowded and has
    a length limit, you will be pedaling, not riding the train. Me, with
    my rear rack, will wave to you from the train as we pass you by.

    Basic message: these are a niche product. Once they are properly
    engineered they will have a place. But rear racks will still be much,
    much more prevalent.

    - rick

  19. SMS said:

    I've updated my rear rack site at "http://nordicgroup.us/rearracks/".
    This site looks at long rear luggage racks that provide sufficient heel
    clearance for use with large panniers, for persons with big feet.

    This quest started when I purchased an Arkel Bug pannier/backpack and
    found that my current rack (Blackburn Expedition) was too short, and my
    foot would hit the bag with every pedal revolution.

    I've also included information and photos of how to shift the rack
    position back a couple of inches, and how to mount racks on bicycles
    where the seat stay braze-ons are too far back to use the brackets that
    are included with the rack.

    If anyone knows of any racks I've missed on the site, please let me know.

    Steve
    "http://nordicgroup.us/rearracks/"


    Tubus Cargo and some of the fittings available from Tubus.
    I agree about the Trek rack as being a sad attempt, but it must be cheap and meets some need.
    Trek 520s are out there in large numbers being used by many cross country touring riders, but most have discovered that the rack is inadequate for that application. Many have also changed out the saddle and some have changed to a lower geared crank for mountain passes.
    I did my first cross country tour with an all steel rack built for handling my newspaper canvas bags. I did most of the 32,00 mile tour using those very same bags, tent, sleeping bage, stove, clothes, food, water. Since then I have had many better equipped bicycles, gear, route details, etc., but my first tour on an old Schwinn 10 speed with a 12 pound steel rack was my most enjoyable.... I just didn't know any better.

  20. http://www.interlocracing.com/racks.html

    Khyber

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