UK and Europe · Public discussion

Measuring maximum heart rate

Membrane · 2007-08-09T08:10:17+00:00

I'd like to establish my personal maximum heart rate using a DIY method so that I can use it for training with a heart rate monitor. I don't have any faith in the various formulas that are used. Anyone have a link to a good method? The only description of a DIY method that I've found so far isn't clear to me: From "CALCULATING YOUR MAXIMUM HEART RATE (MHR)" http://www.cptips.com/hrmntr.htm#mxhr : "Warm up thoroughly. On a long, steady hill increase effort every minute for at least 5 minutes until you can't go any faster. Then sprint for 15 seconds. Check your heart rate at its maximum for a full 30 seconds and double the number." This throws up some questions: 1) Climbing for 5 minutes "until you can't go any faster" for me means that I would be standing on the pedals at the end. What then am I supposed to do to "sprint"? (per the previous instruction I am already going as fast as I can) 2) What am I expected to do after the 15 second sprint, stop, continue cycling at a reduced effort? 3) I don't understand what "Check your heart rate at its maximum for a full 30 seconds and double the number." means. Checking for a full 30 seconds and then doubling the number suggests that I should use the average heart rate over a 30 second period following the sprint, but this leaves me confused as what is meant by "Check your heart rate at its maximum". If I should use the average HR over the 30 second period following the sprint (doubled), this makes it difficult to use my HRM to measure this figure. It requires me to reset the trip data on my computer and following that reset allow it to measure my HR for 30 seconds. With my computer the only way I can stop it from counting after 30 seconds is to take off the HRM strap. Only then could I use my computer's function that reports the average HR for that period. The alternative of checking my pulse manually isn't really practical either after climbing for 5 minute at full capacity followed by a 15 second sprint. The author of the article hasn't responded to a request for clarification. -- Membrane

Started by Membrane · 9 August 2007 · Last activity 11 August 2007 · 15 posts · 606 views

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01 / Original postMeasuring maximum heart rateMembrane · 9 Aug 2007 02 / This pagePosts 1–15Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #15Rob Morley · 11 Aug 2007

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Original section: UK and Europe
Published: 9 August 2007
Last activity: 11 August 2007
Original author: Membrane
Posts: 15
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 606
Views / 30 days: 0
Topics: Heart rate training

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Original post
Membrane
Archived post

9 August 2007, 08:10 UTC #1

I'd like to establish my personal maximum heart rate using a DIY method
so that I can use it for training with a heart rate monitor. I don't
have any faith in the various formulas that are used.
Anyone have a link to a good method?
The only description of a DIY method that I've found so far isn't clear
to me:
From "CALCULATING YOUR MAXIMUM HEART RATE (MHR)"
http://www.cptips.com/hrmntr.htm#mxhr :
"Warm up thoroughly. On a long, steady hill increase effort every minute
for at least 5 minutes until you can't go any faster. Then sprint for 15
seconds. Check your heart rate at its maximum for a full 30 seconds and
double the number."
This throws up some questions:
1) Climbing for 5 minutes "until you can't go any faster" for me means
that I would be standing on the pedals at the end. What then am I
supposed to do to "sprint"? (per the previous instruction I am already
going as fast as I can)
2) What am I expected to do after the 15 second sprint, stop, continue
cycling at a reduced effort?
3) I don't understand what "Check your heart rate at its maximum for a
full 30 seconds and double the number." means.
Checking for a full 30 seconds and then doubling the number suggests
that I should use the average heart rate over a 30 second period
following the sprint, but this leaves me confused as what is meant by
"Check your heart rate at its maximum".
If I should use the average HR over the 30 second period following the
sprint (doubled), this makes it difficult to use my HRM to measure this
figure. It requires me to reset the trip data on my computer and
following that reset allow it to measure my HR for 30 seconds. With my
computer the only way I can stop it from counting after 30 seconds is to
take off the HRM strap. Only then could I use my computer's function
that reports the average HR for that period.
The alternative of checking my pulse manually isn't really practical
either after climbing for 5 minute at full capacity followed by a 15
second sprint.
The author of the article hasn't responded to a request for
clarification.
--
Membrane

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Tony Raven
Archived post

9 August 2007, 08:53 UTC #2

Membrane said:
I'd like to establish my personal maximum heart rate using a DIY method
so that I can use it for training with a heart rate monitor. I don't
have any faith in the various formulas that are used.
Anyone have a link to a good method?
You are right not to trust the formulae - would I were the age that the
formula used backwards would predict for me.
I would suggest just wearing your monitor and go for a ride in some
hilly country. Observe your HRM as you near the top of a long steep
climb and you will have a pretty good idea within a beat or two of your
MHR. Beware though if you have not been cycling at that level of
intensity before of suddenly pushing yourself that hard.
Tony

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Nick
Archived post

9 August 2007, 10:04 UTC #3

Tony Raven said:
Membrane said:
I'd like to establish my personal maximum heart rate using a DIY method
so that I can use it for training with a heart rate monitor. I don't
have any faith in the various formulas that are used.
Anyone have a link to a good method?
You are right not to trust the formulae - would I were the age that the
formula used backwards would predict for me.
I would suggest just wearing your monitor and go for a ride in some
hilly country. Observe your HRM as you near the top of a long steep
climb and you will have a pretty good idea within a beat or two of your
MHR. Beware though if you have not been cycling at that level of
intensity before of suddenly pushing yourself that hard.
Surely taking the maximum value before failure is standard engineering
practice ;o)
Quoted message said:
Tony

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Mark
Archived post

9 August 2007, 10:49 UTC #4

Quoted message said:
Anyone have a link to a good method?
Nick's suggestion is quite good...
All methods seem to follow the same sort of thing, which is to warm up
(i.e. brisk ride for 10-15 minutes) then do some bloody hard cycling wot
gets harder the longer you do it followed by a sprint to nudge it up to the
very max. If you haven't the breath to speak after the sprint then you've
been in the right ballpark. Funny colours in your vision means you've hit
the spot.
The problem with this is that you'll be working at a literal 100%, which
means if you're due for a heart attack you're likely to have it then 😉
Note also that it's impossible to work at 101%, which means you might pass
out. On a bike. At something over 30mph. I'd advise to only attempt on a
good day.

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Rob Morley
Archived post

9 August 2007, 13:58 UTC #5

In article <[email hidden]>, Membrane
[email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
I'd like to establish my personal maximum heart rate using a DIY method
so that I can use it for training with a heart rate monitor. I don't
have any faith in the various formulas that are used.
Anyone have a link to a good method?

<snip>
That method sounds dodgy to me - either it means take the peak and
double it, which will put you in heart failure territory (or assumes you
weren't really trying as hard as you thought) or it means take the
average and double it, which obviously doesn't work for a fit person
with a short recovery time.
Get really well warmed up then ride as hard as you can[1] until you
start to see spots or your head is throbbing uncomfortably. That will
be a pretty good approximation of your maximum heartrate. This is
better done at moderate temperature with damp air - if it's particularly
hot or cold or dry you may be limited by overheating or tortured lungs
before you start to suffer from restricted blood flow.
[1] Either on a resistance trainer (hotter but safer) or somewhere with
a steady gradient (a long shallow uphill is best, but flat is better
than lumpy, beware of traffic).

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_
Archived post

9 August 2007, 14:08 UTC #6

Rob Morley said:
In article <[email hidden]>, Membrane
[email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
I'd like to establish my personal maximum heart rate using a DIY method
so that I can use it for training with a heart rate monitor. I don't
have any faith in the various formulas that are used.
Anyone have a link to a good method?

<snip>
That method sounds dodgy to me - either it means take the peak and
double it,
You missed the bit where the method stated "take pulse for 30 seconds";
hence doubling.
The reason for not taking a pulse for a full minute is to avoid a falsely
low number due to the rate falling post exercise. Shorter peroids reduce
this at the expense of greater error from mis-counts. A recording monitor,
assuming is has some sensible moving-average algorithm, will avoid both
sources of error.

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PhilO
Archived post

9 August 2007, 21:16 UTC #7

Tony Raven said:
I would suggest just wearing your monitor and go for a ride in some
hilly country. Observe your HRM as you near the top of a long steep
climb and you will have a pretty good idea within a beat or two of your
MHR.
I found it near impossible to get anywhere near my MHR on the bike,
but running gets me there in no time. I use the run fast until I am
just
about to throw up (about four minutes) and that's about my max. It is
actually about 15bpm higher than I ever achieve on a bike (maybe I'm
not trying hard enough)
PhilO

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Mark
Archived post

9 August 2007, 21:57 UTC #8

Membrane said:
I'd like to establish my personal maximum heart rate using a DIY method
so that I can use it for training with a heart rate monitor. I don't
have any faith in the various formulas that are used.
I wouldn't bother working out your maximum heart rate. It hurts, it's
hard to measure accurately and it's of negligible use. I planned my
workouts using the method in Joe Friel's (excellent) "The Cyclist's
Training Bible" with good results. His suggestion is to work out your
heart rate at the lactate threshold (i.e., the point at which you're
just going anaerobic) and define your exercise zones from there. The
method is roughly: warm up then ride for 30 minutes at time-trial
pace. Average heart rate for the last 20 minutes of the TT effort is
your lactate threshold. From here you can easily work out the zones
you need to train in to improve aerobic fitness, power at threshold
and so on, as well as a supposed maximum heart rate. Over time HR at
threshold should increase as you become more efficient and your body
is able to deal with lactic acid more effectively. Measuring this is a
better indicator of fitness than max HR, which should stay the same
(or even decrease with age).
Good luck!
Mark
[1] http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyclists-Training-Bible-Joe-Friel/dp/1931382212

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Rob Morley
Archived post

10 August 2007, 04:17 UTC #9

In article <[email hidden]>, _
[email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
Rob Morley said:
In article <[email hidden]>, Membrane
[email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
I'd like to establish my personal maximum heart rate using a DIY method
so that I can use it for training with a heart rate monitor. I don't
have any faith in the various formulas that are used.
Anyone have a link to a good method?

<snip>
That method sounds dodgy to me - either it means take the peak and
double it,
You missed the bit where the method stated "take pulse for 30 seconds";
hence doubling.

You snipped the part where I said "take the average and double it, which
obviously doesn't work for a fit person with a short recovery time".

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_
Archived post

10 August 2007, 11:20 UTC #10

Rob Morley said:
In article <[email hidden]>, _
[email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
Rob Morley said:
In article <[email hidden]>, Membrane
[email hidden] says...
> I'd like to establish my personal maximum heart rate using a DIY method
> so that I can use it for training with a heart rate monitor. I don't
> have any faith in the various formulas that are used.
>
> Anyone have a link to a good method?
>
<snip>
That method sounds dodgy to me - either it means take the peak and
double it,
You missed the bit where the method stated "take pulse for 30 seconds";
hence doubling.

You snipped the part where I said "take the average and double it, which
obviously doesn't work for a fit person with a short recovery time".
Here's the original post:
"Check your heart rate at its maximum for a full 30 seconds and
double the number"
Clear now?

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David Martin
Archived post

10 August 2007, 12:28 UTC #11

Mark said:
warm up then ride for 30 minutes at time-trial
pace. Average heart rate for the last 20 minutes of the TT effort is
your lactate threshold.
Hmm.. That has interesting consequences. Mine is somewhat higher than
I thought it was, and also higher than my theoretical MHR (220 -age).
...d

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Mark
Archived post

10 August 2007, 13:48 UTC #12

David Martin said:
Mark said:
warm up then ride for 30 minutes at time-trial
pace. Average heart rate for the last 20 minutes of the TT effort is
your lactate threshold.
Hmm.. That has interesting consequences. Mine is somewhat higher than
I thought it was, and also higher than my theoretical MHR (220 -age).
It may well be. The various formulas (220 - ages, 210 - (age/2), etc)
are far from a universal fit. I know several people who are 40ish
who've seen their MHR over 200. One guy I often ride with has a heart
rate that is about 20 BPM higher than mine when riding at the same
speed (yes, I know that doesn't mean the effort is the same) despite
being 15 years older than me. He can easily get his heart rate to 190+
on the flat and over 200 going hard uphill.
Mark

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Paul Rudin
Archived post

10 August 2007, 14:42 UTC #13

David Martin said:
Mark said:
warm up then ride for 30 minutes at time-trial
pace. Average heart rate for the last 20 minutes of the TT effort is
your lactate threshold.
Hmm.. That has interesting consequences. Mine is somewhat higher than
I thought it was, and also higher than my theoretical MHR (220 -age).
Max heart rates vary quite a bit from person to person. The 220 - age
thing is just a guesstimate.

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Chris Malcolm
Archived post

10 August 2007, 23:48 UTC #14

Nick said:
Tony Raven said:
Membrane said:
I'd like to establish my personal maximum heart rate using a DIY method
so that I can use it for training with a heart rate monitor. I don't
have any faith in the various formulas that are used.
Anyone have a link to a good method?
You are right not to trust the formulae - would I were the age that the
formula used backwards would predict for me.
I would suggest just wearing your monitor and go for a ride in some
hilly country. Observe your HRM as you near the top of a long steep
climb and you will have a pretty good idea within a beat or two of your
MHR. Beware though if you have not been cycling at that level of
intensity before of suddenly pushing yourself that hard.
Quoted message said:
Surely taking the maximum value before failure is standard engineering
practice ;o)
That's using a new and replaceable version of the thing. If you only
have one heart, and it's getting on a bit, testing to failure should
be done in a hospital cardiology unit with full cardiograph monitoring
and within reach of an emergency resuscication team.
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

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Rob Morley
Archived post

11 August 2007, 02:13 UTC #15

In article <[email hidden]>, _
[email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
Rob Morley said:
In article <[email hidden]>, _
[email hidden] says...
Quoted message said:
On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:58:06 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:
> In article <[email hidden]>, Membrane
> [email hidden] says...
>> I'd like to establish my personal maximum heart rate using a DIY method
>> so that I can use it for training with a heart rate monitor. I don't
>> have any faith in the various formulas that are used.
>>
>> Anyone have a link to a good method?
>>
> <snip>
> That method sounds dodgy to me - either it means take the peak and
> double it,
You missed the bit where the method stated "take pulse for 30 seconds";
hence doubling.

You snipped the part where I said "take the average and double it, which
obviously doesn't work for a fit person with a short recovery time".
Here's the original post:
"Check your heart rate at its maximum for a full 30 seconds and
double the number"
Clear now?

Not at all - do you think that's a well phrased and unambiguous
statement?

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