Need Advice Choosing Road Wheels

"glen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I just got a great deal on a Klein Q-Carbon. The only thing I don't like about it is the cheap
wheelset. I do a lot of charity rides and don't race (usually average between 17-20 mph). I ride
about 2000 miles per summer in hilly New England. I weigh 170 lbs. I'm considering three options
to replace the wheels:

Mavic Open Pro rims with Ultegra hubs and butted stainless spokes ($200 set)

Cane Creek AeroHead SG - on sale for $249 (usually $450 set)

Mavic Cosmos ($300 set)

I've ridden the Open Pro set-up and the Cosmos in the past but I have no expereince with the Cane
Creeks except the good reputation of the company. Since the Cane Creeks are almost half price, I'm
leaning in that direction. Does anyone have any advice for me?

Thanks,

Glen

For what you're doing, stick with the OPs.

Mike

Quoted message said:

I just got a great deal on a Klein Q-Carbon. The only thing I don't like about it is the cheap
wheelset. I do a lot of charity rides and don't race (usually average between 17-20 mph). I ride
about 2000 miles per summer in hilly New England. I weigh 170 lbs. I'm considering three options
to replace the wheels: ...

On many moderately-priced road bikes, the stock wheels leave a lot to be desired due to spokes of
low quality, poor build techniques (no stress-relieving) and junky rims. That really isn't the case
with the stock wheelset on your machine.

That "cheap wheelset" is actually pretty decent. If you picked up a 2003 Q-Carbon, you've got fairly
inexpensive yet very serviceable Tiagra hubs laced up to Bontrager offset-spoke-bed rims. They're
reasonably light and very sturdy. If it's a 2004 Q-Carbon, you're looking at Bontrager Select
wheels, a bit more aero with 20 spokes front/24 spokes rear.

You'll make a more significant improvement in how the bike feels by upgrading to really nice tires
rather than any changes in the wheels. Yes, really light wheels will feel nicer, and the bike will
weigh a bit less, but I think you'll find overall that the difference in tires from stock to
something like a GP3000 or Michelin Axial Pro Race will give you a smoother ride and feel "zippier."
(Sorry to throw around a technical term like "zippier", but not sure how else to say it!).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

"glen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I just got a great deal on a Klein Q-Carbon. The only thing I don't like about it is the cheap
wheelset. I do a lot of charity rides and don't race (usually average between 17-20 mph). I ride
about 2000 miles per summer in hilly New England. I weigh 170 lbs. I'm considering three options
to replace the wheels:

Mavic Open Pro rims with Ultegra hubs and butted stainless spokes ($200 set)

Cane Creek AeroHead SG - on sale for $249 (usually $450 set)

Mavic Cosmos ($300 set)

I've ridden the Open Pro set-up and the Cosmos in the past but I have no expereince with the Cane
Creeks except the good reputation of the company. Since the Cane Creeks are almost half price, I'm
leaning in that direction. Does anyone have any advice for me?

Thanks,

Glen

Quoted message said:

I'm considering

Quoted message said:

three options to replace the wheels:

I would go with the Mavic OP/Ultegra B

(remove clothes to reply)

slovak-<< The only thing I don't like about it is the cheap wheelset. I do a lot of charity rides
and don't race (usually average between 17-20 mph). I ride about 2000 miles per summer in hilly New
England. I weigh 170 lbs. I'm considering three options to replace the wheels: >><BR><BR>

Why?

What question do you wish to answer with the wheels you mentioned when compared to the wheels
on the bike?

If they have been built or at least tensioned, dished, trued, rounded and strss relieved, they will
work for you and will not hold you back in any way, shape or form.

<slovak< but I have no expereince with the Cane Creeks except the good reputation of the company.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Must be a different company than the one's wheels we see....

slovak<< Since the Cane Creeks are almost half price, I'm leaning in that direction. Does anyone
have any advice for me? >><BR><BR>

ride??

Forget about upgrades until necessary?

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On many moderately-priced road bikes, the stock wheels leave a lot to be desired due to spokes of
low quality, poor build techniques (no stress-relieving) and junky rims. That really isn't the
case with the stock wheelset on your machine.

That "cheap wheelset" is actually pretty decent. If you picked up a 2003 Q-Carbon, you've got
fairly inexpensive yet very serviceable Tiagra hubs laced up to Bontrager offset-spoke-bed rims.
They're reasonably light and very sturdy. If it's a 2004 Q-Carbon, you're looking at Bontrager
Select wheels, a bit more aero with 20 spokes front/24 spokes rear.

You'll make a more significant improvement in how the bike feels by upgrading to really nice
tires rather than any changes in the wheels. Yes, really light wheels will feel nicer, and the
bike will weigh a bit less, but I think you'll find overall that the difference in tires from
stock to something like a GP3000 or Michelin Axial Pro Race will give you a smoother ride and
feel "zippier." (Sorry to throw around a technical term like "zippier", but not sure how else to
say it!).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

Hi Mike [and others;-)], what can you tell me about the stock wheels on my '02 LeMond Tourmalet? I
guess I'm mostly interested on learning more about the rims, the bike comes with Matrix Aurora rims
with a Tiagra rear hub and a no name front hub. The rear is offset and other than some excessive
decals, I like their appearance.

If I go from IRC Redstorm Classics to Conti Ultra Gatorskins will there be any "zippier" benefits,
or must I go with the GP3000 for "zippier"?

Eventually I want to get another set of wheels and I am leaning towards the Open Pros w/Dura-Ace
hubs. Should I also consider replacing the hubs on my current wheels? The only downside to that
idea, is that I'll have to pay someone to do the labor. While I am buying tools and starting to do
more of my own labor, I'm not ready to tackle wheels. And finally comparison of DA to Ultegra hubs,
differences? benefits? Thank you, Jeff

glen may have said:

Does anyone have any advice for me?

Get on the bike. Ride it. If the wheels then prove unsatisfactory, shop for different ones. Good
deals on wheel sets happen all the time, there is no need to be hasty.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy. Words processed in a facility that
contains nuts.

glen said:

I just got a great deal on a Klein Q-Carbon. The only thing I don't like about it is the cheap
wheelset.

What's "cheap" about them? It would seem strange indeed if they weren't on a par with your first
suggestion of Mavic wheels and Shimano hubs.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | It is a scientifically proven fact that a mid life crisis can _`\(,_ | only be cured by
something racy and Italian. Bianchis and (_)/ (_) | Colnagos are a lot cheaper than Maserattis
and Ferraris. -- Glenn Davies

glen said:

I weigh 170 lbs. I'm considering three options to replace the wheels:

Mavic Open Pro rims with Ultegra hubs and butted stainless spokes ($200 set)

Cane Creek AeroHead SG - on sale for $249 (usually $450 set)

Mavic Cosmos ($300 set)

Consider one more option, the Ultegra hub with a Velocity Aerohead rim. Get 32 15/16 spokes. That
should cost slightly less than the Open Pro. Certainly build the wheels well. You'll have a wheelset
that you will wear out and get bored with because there is nothing to do with them. I'd offer to
build the wheels for you but I can't buy the components for the $200 that you are being quoted.

The Cane Creeks are a unique hub and turning the nuts to trim the wheel needs a special wrench.

(Jeff Starr) said:

If I go from IRC Redstorm Classics to Conti Ultra Gatorskins will there be any "zippier" benefits,
or must I go with the GP3000 for "zippier"?

Tires make the difference in the ride. The wheel/rim selection is minor in comparison. You are using
tires with thick sidewalls. I like Axial Pro tires but you'll get better wear and value and almost
the same with with Axial Carbon tires. AND have faith, put only 100 lbs of air into the tires.

Quoted message said:

Eventually I want to get another set of wheels and I am leaning towards the Open Pros w/Dura-Ace
hubs. Should I also consider replacing the hubs on my current wheels? The only downside to that
idea, is that I'll have to pay someone to do the labor. While I am buying tools and starting to do
more of my own labor, I'm not ready to tackle wheels. And finally comparison of DA to Ultegra hubs,
differences? benefits?

Use your current wheels out unless they start becoming unreliable. There are no performance
differences between Ultegra 6500 and DA 7700 hubs. The Ti hub body and axel don't do anything. Of
course, using my logic, everyone would ride around in a Ford Taurus.

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just got a great deal on a Klein Q-Carbon. The only thing I don't like about it is the cheap
wheelset. I do a lot of charity rides and don't race (usually average between 17-20 mph). I ride
about 2000 miles per summer in hilly New England. I weigh 170 lbs. I'm considering three options
to replace the wheels: ...

On many moderately-priced road bikes, the stock wheels leave a lot to be desired due to spokes of
low quality, poor build techniques (no stress-relieving) and junky rims. That really isn't the
case with the stock wheelset on your machine.

That "cheap wheelset" is actually pretty decent. If you picked up a 2003 Q-Carbon, you've got
fairly inexpensive yet very serviceable Tiagra hubs laced up to Bontrager offset-spoke-bed rims.
They're reasonably light and very sturdy.

I'm with MIke on this one. I was actually considering one of those bikes (very sweet handling), and
the wheels in question were a plus for me, not a minus. I'd rather have those than the underspoked
aero wacky-wheels all bikes seem to come with these days, whether we want them or not. If by "cheap"
you mean without a zooty brand name, well, it doesn't make a difference. They're solid rims with
good quality hubs, and a full complement of spokes. In fact, the offset Bontragers will probably
make more reliable rear wheel than Open Pros or whatever. If you want something better, take these
wheels to a good wheelbuilder, and have them retensioned and stress relieved. You'll get the
reliability and longevity of handbuilts, at a fraction of the cost.

Quoted message said:

If it's a 2004 Q-Carbon, you're looking at Bontrager Select wheels, a bit more aero with 20 spokes
front/24 spokes rear.

You'll make a more significant improvement in how the bike feels by upgrading to really nice tires
rather than any changes in the wheels. Yes, really light wheels will feel nicer, and the bike will
weigh a bit less,

I'll argue with that. I have Rolf Sestriere Ti, some of the lightest wheels you can buy, and they
don't feel any different climbing, etc., than any other wheels I've ever had. If anything, they feel
disconcertingly flimsy sometimes, like when glancing off rough spots or rocks, and they cause
shimmies when riding no-hands. I'm still undecided on keeping them.

Quoted message said:

but I think you'll find overall that the difference in tires from stock to something like a GP3000
or Michelin Axial Pro Race will give you a smoother ride and feel "zippier." (Sorry to throw
around a technical term like "zippier", but not sure how else to say it!).

This is true -- good tires make a difference in ride and rolling resistance. However, the Bontrager
slicks that all the Trek/Klein/Lemond bikes come with seem as good as anything to me.

Matt O.

Thanks to everyone for posting. The overwhelming advice was to just keep riding on the stock wheels.
I think I'll do that.

Glen

In article said:

I just got a great deal on a Klein Q-Carbon. The only thing I don't like about it is the cheap
wheelset. I do a lot of charity rides and don't race (usually average between 17-20 mph). I ride
about 2000 miles per summer in hilly New England. I weigh 170 lbs. I'm considering three options
to replace the wheels:

Mavic Open Pro rims with Ultegra hubs and butted stainless spokes ($200 set)

Cane Creek AeroHead SG - on sale for $249 (usually $450 set)

Mavic Cosmos ($300 set)

I've ridden the Open Pro set-up and the Cosmos in the past but I have no expereince with the Cane
Creeks except the good reputation of the company. Since the Cane Creeks are almost half price, I'm
leaning in that direction. Does anyone have any advice for me?

Thanks,

Glen

Quoted message said:

Eventually I want to get another set of wheels and I am leaning towards the Open Pros w/Dura-Ace
hubs. Should I also consider replacing the hubs on my current wheels? The only downside to that
idea, is that I'll have to pay someone to do the labor. While I am buying tools and starting to do
more of my own labor, I'm not ready to tackle wheels. And finally comparison of DA to Ultegra
hubs, differences? benefits? Thank you, Jeff

Hi Jeff,

As long as the rims are in good shape (no dings and not cracks) and brake pad area aren't worn out
(you can feel them slightly caved in), I don't see the reason or the need to get yourself new
wheels. Tiagra hubs aren't bad. I am using RSX hubs on my touring bike and ride in rain, snow and
mud and they have performed perfectly so far. As long as you repack the hubs yearly with good grease
(I use Philwood), they should spin smoothly as with any other hubs.. I only recently switched my RSX
hubs laced to Alex DM-18 rims slowly to Mavic rims. The rear Alex rim (stock to the touring bike I
bought) gave out after 16000 km. 2 cracks on the valve opening and slight buckling. I replaced that
with the Mavic T520 and it's been doing just fine. The front is due for a replacement after 20,000km
and I will be using a similar rim. Mind you, these rims are heavy, but they never slow me down on
the hills. In fact, I was lured by the hype of these light fast wheels. I also owned a racing bike
with Campy Veloce group and Mexico aerowheels (not light either). Saw a deal on eBay, I decided to
spring myself a pair of Velocity Spartacus (16/20 paired spoke wheels) to solve me of getting
dropped problems with my club's fastest riders, who happen to own fancy bikes with paired spoke
wheels (Either close to Record or Dura-Ace quality). When I got them and installed them on my racing
bike, my first feeling was, wow it kinda felt zippier. I ran a pair of Vredestein's 23mm tires which
were originally from my old stock wheels. Anyhow, a fair 6 months evaluation of these new wheels
(actually lighter than Dura-Ace laced Open Pros wheelset) on fast club rides (some are ex-pro
racers) yielded minor improvements. I am not sure if these improvements in speed were the result of
a placebo effect (I have more confidence as I was leveling the playing field with these pro guys
using these wheels) or actually these aero paired spokes wheels are doing their job. My final
conclusion, by swapping back to 36 spokes 3 laced Mexico Veloce wheels, was these light wheels would
help in racing where your powerplant output is the same as other pro racers and the difference in
winning the race would be in seconds and not in minutes or hours. If you're late in minutes or
hours, then you'll probably got dropped miles away anyhow..

Suffice to say, I sold the Velocity wheels with my racing bike recently and actually got more than I
asked for! Nobody wanted to buy my old race bike with the stock Mexico wheels, which were built much
better than the Spartacus. Go figure!!

I guess, I understand why most people these days want light wheel sets. Like me, I believed it would
level the playing field with the faster guys on the road.. Unfortunately, what would help level the
playing field is to train with them long enough so you can keep up. Only then, you'll be able to
ride fast. I was lucky I got a deal with these light wheels. I personally would never go out of my
way and spend buckets of cash to try and buy these wheels again, UNLESS I am a good enough strong
rider and need to race.

In article said:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just got a great deal on a Klein Q-Carbon. The only thing I don't like about it is the cheap
wheelset. I do a lot of charity rides and don't race (usually average between 17-20 mph). I
ride about 2000 miles per summer in hilly New England. I weigh 170 lbs. I'm considering three
options to replace the wheels: ...

On many moderately-priced road bikes, the stock wheels leave a lot to be desired due to spokes
of low quality, poor build techniques (no stress-relieving) and junky rims. That really isn't
the case with the stock wheelset on your machine.

I agree. My stock wheels on the touring bike left a lot to be desired then. Spokes failure and were
rebuilt twice. The rear finally broke, so I replaced it with the Mavic T520. The front is dying too
(already 1 stress crack mark on the valve opening) and I will soon replace it with another similar
Mavic rim.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If it's a 2004 Q-Carbon, you're looking at Bontrager Select wheels, a bit more aero with 20
spokes front/24 spokes rear.

You'll make a more significant improvement in how the bike feels by upgrading to really nice
tires rather than any changes in the wheels. Yes, really light wheels will feel nicer, and the
bike will weigh a bit less,

Nice tires definitely will help reduce rolling resistance. But I'm sure even stock tires of such a
good bike would come with decent tires. The only improvement in the speed of the bike would have to
come from the rider.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by slovakglen
Thanks to everyone for posting. The overwhelming advice was to just keep riding on the stock wheels.
I think I'll do that.

Glen

ok, what i never saw was . . . what wheels came with your bike??

Tiagra hubs 14 ga spokes and no-name rims. The sales person said they were a Trek rim. I'm assuming
they a re a Bontrager rim. But not sure.

Glen

In article said:

slovakglen said:

Thanks to everyone for posting. The overwhelming advice was to just keep riding on the stock
wheels. I think I'll do that. Glen

ok, what i never saw was . . . what wheels came with your bike??

--

Quoted message said:

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