self build

tobytherodie said:

Hi I'm thinking of building myselfa road bike, I'll probably be posting a few questions here if i
get the project off the ground... first up: How do I knowwhat size frame I need? I'm about 31 inch
inside leg. I aiming for a budget of 200- 250 GBP, roughly what proportion of that should I spend
on frame / wheels / trasmission etc?

For that budget I think your only realistic option is to buy a complete bike from a bike shop, take
it apart and put it back together again!

The sum of individual components will be far greater than the cost of a complete bike.

If anything, you could look for a complete bike within your price range that has a decent frame but
nasty components. That way you will be in a position to upgrade components as your budget allows.

Sorry if it's not the avice you wanted to hear.

Love and Reynolds from Rich x

--
Sig got lost during a reinstall

tobytherodie said:

Hi I'm thinking of building myselfa road bike, I'll probably be posting a few questions here if i
get the project off the ground... first up: How do I knowwhat size frame I need? I'm about 31 inch
inside leg.

Assuming a non-compact diamond frame, 22"/56cm. The top tube length is probably more important
anyway. A stem of 10-12cm looks right on a frame of that size, so you need to find a top tube length
that will go with that stem (measure an existing bike where you're comfortable with the reach, or
use the "cubit plus an inch" rule between the saddle nose and the bars).

I

Quoted message said:

aiming for a budget of 200- 250 GBP, roughly what proportion of that should I spend on frame /
wheels / trasmission etc?

I can't really see you building a good bike for that, although, perversely, you could buy a complete
secondhand one. Sometimes people sell road frames for as little as £10 in the classified ads, but
half-decent wheels will be about £100 and even a basic 9-speed groupset will more than swallow the
rest before any finishing kit (bars, saddle, seatpin, tyres). Bear in mind that old road frames will
be 120mm or 126mm between the rear dropouts and will need cold-setting to 130mm in order to fit a
current rear hub. MTBers are lucky as most 7-speed frames were 135mm [1] and this hasn't changed
with 8- or 9-speed.

[1] a few were 130mm

In message <[email hidden]>, Richard Bates
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

tobytherodie said:

Hi I'm thinking of building myselfa road bike, I'll probably be posting a few questions here if i
get the project off the ground... first up: How do I knowwhat size frame I need? I'm about 31 inch
inside leg. I aiming for a budget of 200- 250 GBP, roughly what proportion of that should I spend
on frame / wheels / trasmission etc?

For that budget I think your only realistic option is to buy a complete bike from a bike shop, take
it apart and put it back together again!

The sum of individual components will be far greater than the cost of a complete bike.

If anything, you could look for a complete bike within your price range that has a decent frame but
nasty components. That way you will be in a position to upgrade components as your budget allows.

Sorry if it's not the avice you wanted to hear.

No, probably not, but I was going to say a similar sort of thing.

If building up your own bike appeals, and as I've done it a fair bit myself, but never a whole new
bike, but plenty of rebuilds. What about buying 2nd hand bike stripping it down and rebuilding it,
replacing components as needed/as you wish.
--
Chris French, Leeds

tobytherodie said:

Hi I'm thinking of building myselfa road bike, I'll probably be posting a few questions here if i
get the project off the ground... first up: How do I knowwhat size frame I need? I'm about 31 inch
inside leg. I aiming for a budget of 200- 250 GBP, roughly what proportion of that should I spend
on frame / wheels / trasmission etc?

All of it on the frame.... or a complete bike (new discounted or second-hand). I'm afraid it costs
big money to buy all the parts separately, new, even if happy with bottom end stuff. We're talking
more than twice your budget for something quite modest.

On the other hand, you could probably do it if using some second-hand components, but it helps to
know what you're doing first because money could very easily be wasted on out-of-date, worn, faulty
or wrong-size parts.

back to:

Quoted message said:

roughly what proportion of that should I spend on frame / wheels / trasmission etc?

No need to break the proportions down in advance like that. Decide on the basic specification
then research each part individually and opt for the cheapest make & model that will do the job
to your satisfaction. Then add up the bill - and make sure you're sitting down when you press the
'equals' button!

Quoted message said:

I have heard a few dicouraging comments about access to tools (which i have (exept big head
presses etc)) and that I can probably get it built for me in a shop if i get all my bits
from them,

No, tools are no problem.

Quoted message said:

but diy is my bag, and i recon if i put the thing together in the first place, it will be a lot
easier when it comes to maintenance and upgrade...

It's actually the other way around. It's easier to gain the skills and knowledge - one chunk at a
time - though routine maintenance and gradual upgrades over the months/years, then your first build
from scratch will be a doddle.

~PB

tobytherodie said:

Hi I'm thinking of building myselfa road bike, I'll probably be posting a few questions here if i
get the project off the ground... first up: How do I knowwhat size frame I need? I'm about 31 inch
inside leg. I aiming for a budget of 200- 250 GBP, roughly what proportion of that should I spend
on frame / wheels / trasmission etc?

I have heard a few dicouraging comments about access to tools (which i have (exept big head
presses etc)) and that I can probably get it built for me in a shop if i get all my bits from
them, but diy is my bag, and i recon if i put the thing together in the first place, it will be a
lot easier when it comes to maintenance and upgrade...

I toyed with the same idea a few years ago. What I ended up doing was choosing the frame, groupset
and rims and getting a LBS to assemble it for
me. I walked out with a bike complete except for seat and pedals. It probably came in at more than
an equivalent off the shelf bike if such a one exists[1], but I have a bike that is exactly what
I want. I benefitted from the shops discounts because I got nearly all of my parts from them.

[1]If you are choosy about the frame, the off the shelf bikes will probably be just specced and
assembled by a shop to their specs anyway and they will almost certainly be something that you
don't like.

tobytherodie said:

Hi I'm thinking of building myselfa road bike, I'll probably be posting a few questions here if i
get the project off the ground... first up: How do I knowwhat size frame I need? I'm about 31 inch
inside leg.

I'm 32" inside leg, I ride a 25.5" (65cm) just now but on the whole prefer a 26.5" (67cm). My guess
is that 65cm would probably be right for you.

Quoted message said:

I aiming for a budget of 200- 250 GBP, roughly what proportion of that should I spend on frame /
wheels / trasmission etc?

Get as good a frame as you can. Start with cheap transmission parts and replace them with better as
they wear out. Good road frames are amazingly cheap.

Quoted message said:

I have heard a few dicouraging comments about access to tools (which i have (exept big head
presses etc)) and that I can probably get it built for me in a shop if i get all my bits from
them, but diy is my bag, and i recon if i put the thing together in the first place, it will be a
lot easier when it comes to maintenance and upgrade...

I'm with you there. My favourite ever road bike was one a put together myself; it's a nice feeling
that you know - and can fix - every last bit of it.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

;; I'd rather live in sybar-space

Simon Brooke said:

tobytherodie said:

Hi I'm thinking of building myselfa road bike, I'll probably be posting a few questions here if i
get the project off the ground... first up: How do I knowwhat size frame I need? I'm about 31 inch
inside leg.

I'm 32" inside leg, I ride a 25.5" (65cm) just now but on the whole prefer a 26.5" (67cm). My
guess is that 65cm would probably be right for you.

Er...that's MASSIVE. Adding on a typical 10-11" BB height, you must have very sore nads ;-)

Simon Brooke said:

tobytherodie said:

Hi I'm thinking of building myselfa road bike, I'll probably be posting a few questions here if i
get the project off the ground... first up: How do I knowwhat size frame I need? I'm about 31
inch inside leg.

I'm 32" inside leg, I ride a 25.5" (65cm) just now but on the whole prefer a 26.5" (67cm). My guess
is that 65cm would probably be right for you.

That's a HUGE bike - ones that size usually have to be purpose built - are you sure the measurements
are right?

Regards! Stephen

Simon Brooke said:

I'm 32" inside leg, I ride a 25.5" (65cm) just now but on the whole prefer a 26.5" (67cm). My
guess is that 65cm would probably be right for you.

Shirley something wrong. I have a 35" inside leg and only ride a
63cm. How the hell do you reach the ground on your bike?

Tony

Steve McGinty said:

Simon Brooke said:

tobytherodie said:

Hi I'm thinking of building myselfa road bike, I'll probably be posting a few questions here if
i get the project off the ground... first up: How do I knowwhat size frame I need? I'm about 31
inch inside leg.

I'm 32" inside leg, I ride a 25.5" (65cm) just now but on the whole prefer a 26.5" (67cm). My
guess is that 65cm would probably be right for you.

That's a HUGE bike - ones that size usually have to be purpose built - are you sure the
measurements are right?

Yes, 25.5" is the biggest Raleigh Special Products used to build as standard, which is why it's what
I ride now. I did have a couple of
26.5" frames custom made for me, both Carltons, but they were both stolen.

As to Zog saying I must have sore 'nads, why? I don't paddle along with my feet on the ground, you
know! Once your feet are clipped in, who cares how far away the ground is? The frame is big enough
to give me full leg extension when pedalling without having yards of unsupported seatpost, and I
find that comfortable.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

;; I'd rather live in sybar-space

Tony Raven said:

Simon Brooke said:

I'm 32" inside leg, I ride a 25.5" (65cm) just now but on the whole prefer a 26.5" (67cm). My
guess is that 65cm would probably be right for you.

Shirley something wrong. I have a 35" inside leg and only ride a
63cm. How the hell do you reach the ground on your bike?

I don't, I cycle it. When I do stop, I can get a tip-toe down, which is all you need for balance. I
can't get both tip-toes down at once, but if I could I'd be riding with my knees bent to odd angles.

We are measuring the same measurement aren't we - centre of bottom-bracket spindle to top of
seat tube?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

;; I'd rather live in sybar-space

Simon Brooke said:

Steve McGinty said:

Simon Brooke said:

tobytherodie wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Hi I'm thinking of building myselfa road bike, I'll probably be posting a few questions here if
> i get the project off the ground... first up: How do I knowwhat size frame I need? I'm about 31
> inch inside leg.

I'm 32" inside leg, I ride a 25.5" (65cm) just now but on the whole prefer a 26.5" (67cm). My
guess is that 65cm would probably be right for you.

That is a very unusual suggestion! Perhaps you measure your inside leg differently from the usual
British way?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's a HUGE bike - ones that size usually have to be purpose built
- are you sure the measurements are right?

Yes, 25.5" is the biggest Raleigh Special Products used to build as standard, which is why it's
what I ride now. I did have a couple of
26.5" frames custom made for me, both Carltons, but they were both stolen.

As to Zog saying I must have sore 'nads, why? I don't paddle along with my feet on the ground, you
know! Once your feet are clipped in, who cares how far away the ground is? The frame is big enough
to give me full leg extension when pedalling without having yards of unsupported seatpost, and I
find that comfortable.

It's more a case of how far away the top tube is, and also how long the top tube is if it's in
normal proportion.

Some top tube clearance is a good thing to have so the bike can be straddled with both feet on the
ground at stops sometimes and to allow a safety margin when slipping off the saddle or pedals. Apart
from being uncomfortable, a too-large frame is also heavier and less rigid than necessary and may be
more difficult to handle.

Unless such a long top tube is needed with a non-custom frame (for those with a disproportionately
long back), I think a 21" to 23.5" frame would be more suitable for 31" inside leg.

~PB

Is it generally cheaper to buy a complete bike than its constituent parts separately?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by pineapple
Is it generally cheaper to buy a complete bike than its constituent parts separately?

It's usually cheaper to buy a complete bike, but..

Self building is good fun if you like that sort of thing.

I suggest using e-Bay to get a really good frame cheap and go from there.

I did that and stayed close to budget until I got carried away with a new seat and seat post.

In message <[email hidden]>, Simon Brooke
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven said:

Simon Brooke said:

I'm 32" inside leg, I ride a 25.5" (65cm) just now but on the whole prefer a 26.5" (67cm). My
guess is that 65cm would probably be right for you.

Shirley something wrong. I have a 35" inside leg and only ride a
63cm. How the hell do you reach the ground on your bike?

I don't, I cycle it. When I do stop, I can get a tip-toe down, which is all you need for
balance. I can't get both tip-toes down at once, but if I could I'd be riding with my knees bent
to odd angles.

My tourer and my much 'Utility bike' (modded old MTB) both have highish bottom brackets and I can't
get my feet down when on the saddle - I normally slip off the seat and put one down.

However, I am bemused (as others are ) by your statement about frame size. I two have an inside leg
of about 32 inches - my tourer is something like 21 inches frame size - any bigger and I wouldn't be
able to stand over it really. I certainly couldn't stand over a 26 inch frame (26+ say 10 inches BB
height = 36 = ouch !)

If we take you preferred stated size of 67cm add say 17.5 for the crank length, say another 10 cm
for seat post and saddle gives a total saddle top to pedal distance of about 94 cm considerably more
than the 81 or so which is a 32 inch ISL.

I'm just trying to work out how you fit onto and ride such a setup.

Quoted message said:

We are measuring the same measurement aren't we - centre of bottom-bracket spindle to top of
seat tube?

Yep.
--
Chris French, Leeds

In article said:

tobytherodie wrote:

I

Quoted message said:

aiming for a budget of 200- 250 GBP, roughly what proportion of that should I spend on frame /
wheels / trasmission etc?

I can't really see you building a good bike for that, although, perversely, you could buy a
complete secondhand one. Sometimes people sell road frames for as little as £10 in the classified
ads, but half-decent wheels will be about £100 and even a basic 9-speed groupset will more than
swallow the rest before any finishing kit

Buy a frame he really likes and a complete secondhand bike for parts, and upgrade the parts later?

Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven said:

Simon Brooke said:

I'm 32" inside leg, I ride a 25.5"...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Shirley something wrong....How the hell do you reach the ground on your bike?

I don't, I cycle it... We are measuring the same measurement aren't we - centre of bottom-bracket
spindle to top of seat tube?

frame size (on a non-compact) is measured along the seat tube from centre of BB to centre of top
tube, centre of BB to top of top tube, or centre of BB to top of seat tube so perhaps not.

Compacts sometime employ the measurements wrt to a virtual horizontal top tube (taking the front end
as its level)

best wishes james

chris French said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Simon Brooke
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven said:

Simon Brooke wrote:
>
> I'm 32" inside leg, I ride a 25.5" (65cm) just now but on the whole prefer a 26.5" (67cm). My
> guess is that 65cm would probably be right for you.

Shirley something wrong. I have a 35" inside leg and only ride a
63cm. How the hell do you reach the ground on your bike?

I don't, I cycle it. When I do stop, I can get a tip-toe down, which is all you need for balance.
I can't get both tip-toes down at once, but if I could I'd be riding with my knees bent to odd
angles.

My tourer and my much 'Utility bike' (modded old MTB) both have highish bottom brackets and I
can't get my feet down when on the saddle - I normally slip off the seat and put one down.

However, I am bemused (as others are ) by your statement about frame size. I two have an inside
leg of about 32 inches - my tourer is something like 21 inches frame size - any bigger and I
wouldn't be able to stand over it really. I certainly couldn't stand over a 26 inch frame (26+ say
10 inches BB height = 36 = ouch !)

Yes, but the seat tube isn't vertical. In any case, who cares if you can stand over it? You don't
stand over it, you ride it. In fact I can just stand over it (no clearance), but once again, so
what? It's the smallest road bike I've had in thirty years and god knows how many thousand miles.
For at least half of that period my road bikes were not just my main but my only form of tranport,
and for only four of those years I lived in a town; the rest I've lived in quite small villages. So
my bikes have seen a lot of miles. I haven't suffered any cycling injury of _any_ kind in that time.

FWIW, the top of the saddle on that bike is 103cm from the ground, and the top tube is 88cm from the
ground. The saddle on my hill bike is 108cm from the ground.

Quoted message said:

If we take you preferred stated size of 67cm add say 17.5 for the crank length, say another 10 cm
for seat post and saddle gives a total saddle top to pedal distance of about 94 cm considerably
more than the 81 or so which is a 32 inch ISL.

96.5cm, actually. You don't pedal with your heel, you pedal with the ball of your foot. Mind you,
my feet are quite small; someone with proportionally sized feet I would expect to want
something taller.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

...but have you *seen* the size of the world wide spider?

In message <[email hidden]>, Simon Brooke
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

chris French said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Simon Brooke
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> writes:

> Simon Brooke wrote:
> >
> > I'm 32" inside leg, I ride a 25.5" (65cm) just now but on the whole prefer a 26.5" (67cm).
> > My guess is that 65cm would probably be right for you.
>
> Shirley something wrong. I have a 35" inside leg and only ride a
> 63cm. How the hell do you reach the ground on your bike?

I don't, I cycle it. When I do stop, I can get a tip-toe down, which is all you need for
balance. I can't get both tip-toes down at once, but if I could I'd be riding with my knees bent
to odd angles.

My tourer and my much 'Utility bike' (modded old MTB) both have highish bottom brackets and I
can't get my feet down when on the saddle - I normally slip off the seat and put one down.

However, I am bemused (as others are ) by your statement about frame size.

Yes, but the seat tube isn't vertical.

no it isn't but these rough calculations probably doesn't matter too much (it was too cold to go
outside to the garage to measure the bikes up)

Quoted message said:

In any case, who cares if you can stand over it?

I do, and I suspect many other riders.

Quoted message said:

You don't stand over it, you ride it.

Well pretty often I have occasion to stand over my bikes, when out touring etc. in particualr.

Quoted message said:

In fact I can just stand over it (no clearance), but once again, so what?

for you obviously nothing :-)

Quoted message said:

FWIW, the top of the saddle on that bike is 103cm from the ground, and the top tube is 88cm from
the ground. The saddle on my hill bike is 108cm from the ground.

On my tourer the saddle is about 101 cm from the ground, the top tube is about 83.5, but it has a
relatively high BB height. I measured but forgot the pedal to saddle height.....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If we take you preferred stated size of 67cm add say 17.5 for the crank length, say another 10 cm
for seat post and saddle gives a total saddle top to pedal distance of about 94 cm considerably
more than the 81 or so which is a 32 inch ISL.

96.5cm, actually. You don't pedal with your heel, you pedal with the ball of your foot.

Yes, sorry, that bit I was talking total bollocks :-)

I Realised afterwards that i'd made a rather basic error with the calcs in that of course the ISL
measurement is not the same as the length of leg to the floor... Doh! I guess we are talking another
10-15 cm for that?

I suspect that your 32 ISL might be slightly longer than mine, however, it would seem that you like
your bikes to be sized at the top end of the size range that will fit you. While I could probably
ride a bike of the size you have, I don't think I'd find it that comfortable for me.
--
Chris French, Leeds