Bottom bracket tool improvement

I bought the Tacx tool for $24 at Licton's Bike recently. They have a web site. But I guess it is
rare as my lbs didn't have one and was amazed to see one when I showed it to them recently.

I'm still trying to figure out how to use this with a torque wrench, though.

--
Kovie [email hidden]

"Benjamin Weiner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3fbd88c2$1@darkstar...

Quoted message said:

I have a Campagnolo cartridge BB with notches around the outside of the cups, which requires a
Park BBT-4 (wrench shaped like a loop with teeth on the inside) to install/remove. This tool has a
tendency to slip off the cup, which is sometimes complained about on r.b.t. More experienced
posters have suggested using a Tacx or Stein tool which bolts to the BB and clamps the wrench onto
the cup, but these are rarer than the ubiquitous, if inadequate, Park.

Last night I had to remove this BB and improvised my own clamp. I had a 2" fender washer, but that
wouldn't slip over the BB spindle. I saw a roll of electrical tape in my toolbox, and eureka! It
was just the right size to use as a spacer between BBT-4 and washer. Assemble the bits in this
order from inside to out: BBT-4 tool, roll of tape, fender washer, crankbolt. Spin the crankbolt
almost the way down, like a QR skewer holding on a freewheel remover. Then you can reef on the BB
tool handle without slipping.

The same arrangement should work for at least some loose-ball BB tools. I see that Park's webpage
has a new BBT-4 with little ears that are supposed to prevent slippage, but think the clamping
approach is superior. Say no to rounding out BB notches and dinging the BB shell.

Benjamin Weiner said:

I have a Campagnolo cartridge BB with notches around the outside of the cups, which requires a Park
BBT-4 (wrench shaped like a loop with teeth on the inside) to install/remove. This tool has a
tendency to slip off the cup, which is sometimes complained about on r.b.t. More experienced
posters have suggested using a Tacx or Stein tool which bolts to the BB and clamps the wrench onto
the cup, but these are rarer than the ubiquitous, if inadequate, Park.

It is not obvious but, the BBT-4 goes onto the bb nut with the handle pointed under the frame and
not outward to protect your knuckles. If you lay the bike on its side and hold the wrench down
with the heel of one hand and tap the wrench with a mallet, the tool works fine. Still, at best,
it's awful.

"Benjamin Weiner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3fbd88c2$1@darkstar...

Quoted message said:

I have a Campagnolo cartridge BB with notches around the outside of the cups, which requires a
Park BBT-4 (wrench shaped like a loop with teeth on the inside) to install/remove. This tool has a
tendency to slip off the cup, which is sometimes complained about on r.b.t. More experienced
posters have suggested using a Tacx or Stein tool which bolts to the BB and clamps the wrench onto
the cup, but these are rarer than the ubiquitous, if inadequate, Park.

It's pretty easy to add an appropriate bolt and some washers to the Park tool to prevent it
slipping. Sometimes BB's require a lot of torque to loosen, I've resorted to using a pipe wrench
on occasion.

Kovie said:

I bought the Tacx tool for $24 at Licton's Bike recently. They have a web site. But I guess it is
rare as my lbs didn't have one and was amazed to see one when I showed it to them recently.

I'm still trying to figure out how to use this with a torque wrench, though.

I must admit that I don't use one with it, judging it by hand with a large spanner seems to be fine.
But there will be *some* way of using a torque wrench on it! :-)

A torque wrench is more important for cranks as you're not simply tightening a bolt but wedging the
cranks onto the spindle - so different from the "feel" of bolts on the rest of the bike.

~PB

My tool for removing BB and fixed gear hub lockrings is based on the VAR pliers-like tool. I bought
a Channel-Lock pliers of the appropriate size and ground away a bit of the jaws, to leave a "tooth"
at the end of each. These engage on opposite sides of the lockring and provide a secure fit. Stein
makes a modified Vice-Grips tool that is similar but cost more than the $15 I paid for a
Channel-Locks. This tool works like a charm and won't damage aluminum cups with outer notches like
some of the ISIS BBs.

The Park hook spanner is utterly useless, as the inside curve is improperly shaped. I don't know how
that piece of [censored] has stayed on the market so long.

bjw-<< I have a Campagnolo cartridge BB with notches around the outside of the cups, which requires
a Park BBT-4 (wrench shaped like a loop

<< More experienced posters have suggested using a Tacx or Stein tool which bolts to the BB and
clamps the wrench onto the cup, but these are rarer than the ubiquitous, if inadequate, Park.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Then ya need a new biike shop. The Tacx tool may be 'rare' to some 'bike shops' but any that 'qui si
parla Campagnolo' has them or can get them.

<< Assemble the bits in this order from inside to out: BBT-4 tool, roll of tape, fender washer,
crankbolt. Spin the crankbolt almost the way down, >><BR><BR>

Just like a Stein tool does.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kovie
[B]I bought the Tacx tool for $24 at Licton's Bike recently. They have a web site. But I guess it is
rare as my lbs didn't have one and was amazed to see one when I showed it to them recently.

I'm still trying to figure out how to use this with a torque wrench, though.

I have use the Park Tourque wrench:
36mm 8-Point Torque Wrench Crow's Foot Bit TWB-368
It is tough to fit and hold it all together.
To be precise, you need to compensate for the addtional length in the tourque setting by multiplying by .85
I lay the bike on it's side on a clean rubber mat for this procedure.

Someone said:

<< More experienced posters have suggested using a Tacx or Stein tool which bolts to the BB and
clamps the wrench onto the cup, but these are rarer than the ubiquitous, if inadequate, Park. >>

Peter Chisholm replied:

Quoted message said:

Then ya need a new biike shop. The Tacx tool may be 'rare' to some 'bike shops' but any that 'qui
si parla Campagnolo' has them or can get them.

Actually, it's more a matter of "qui si parla Ochsner." They are, indeed wondaful tools.

See: sheldonbrown.comtools.htmlOpen ↗ and scroll down a tad.

Sheldon "Sure As Death And Tacxs" Brown +---------------------------------------------------------+
| Our country is the world - our countrymen are mankind | --William Lloyd Garrison |
+---------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts
shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Quoth Benjamin Weiner:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have a Campagnolo cartridge BB with notches around the outside of the cups, which requires a
Park BBT-4 (wrench shaped like a loop with teeth on the inside) to install/remove. This tool has a
tendency to slip off the cup, which is sometimes complained about on r.b.t. More experienced
posters have suggested using a Tacx or Stein tool which bolts to the BB and clamps the wrench onto
the cup, but these are rarer than the ubiquitous, if inadequate, Park.

Paul Kopit said:

It is not obvious but, the BBT-4 goes onto the bb nut with the handle pointed under the frame and
not outward to protect your knuckles. If you lay the bike on its side and hold the wrench down
with the heel of one hand and tap the wrench with a mallet, the tool works fine. Still, at best,
it's awful.

Yes, it is. It is a fundamentally flawed design, the tool would work much better if it didn't have
the angled handle. The angled handle creates an unnecessary torque in the "roll" axis of the tool,
and makes it tend to slip off, whichever way you point it.

The Tacx tool is better, but unfortunately has very uncomfortable pedal wrench notches on the
"handle" end, better wear gloves it you use it!

Sheldon "There Is No Good Tool For Those BBs" Brown +---------------------------------------+
| Some say the world will end in fire, | Some say in ice. | From what I've tasted of desire | I
| hold with those who favor fire. | But if it had to perish twice, | I think I know enough of hate
| | To say that for destruction ice | Is also great | And would suffice. --Robert Frost |
+---------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Two problems. One, I can't seem to find this crows foot bit, or the equivalent. And two, the Tacx
tool has hex wrench flats, and this crows foot is 8-point, so you won't get a good grip and risk
damaging either foot or tool. How do you make this work?

A superior alternative would be a VERY deep 32mm or 1-1/4" 6 or 12-point socket to go over the
flats. But I can't seem to find one in local hw stores. The closest I got was a Home Depot "deep"
socket that was nearly an inch too short.

I ended up using a 12" adjustable wrench and just cranked down until it wouldn't budge any more. As
this BB calls for around 50lb/ft or torque, I wasn't worried about TOO much torque.

--
Kovie [email hidden]

"daveornee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Originally posted by Kovie I bought the Tacx tool for $24 at Licton's Bike recently. They have a
web site. But I guess it is rare as my lbs didn't have one and was amazed to see one when I showed
it to them recently.

I'm still trying to figure out how to use this with a torque wrench, though.

I have use the Park Tourque wrench: 36mm 8-Point Torque Wrench Crow's Foot Bit TWB-368 It is tough
to fit and hold it all together. To be precise, you need to compensate for the addtional length in
the tourque setting by multiplying by .85 I lay the bike on it's side on a clean rubber mat for
this procedure.

--
David Ornee, Western Springs, IL USA

Quoted message said:

--------------------------<

Posted via cyclingforums.com cyclingforums.comcyclingforums.comOpen ↗

What technique do you use to torque the Tacx tool down? I can't seem to find a proper deep socket or
crows foot for my torque wrench. Is it ok to just use an adj wrench and apply full force until it
moves no more?

--
Kovie [email hidden]

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoth Benjamin Weiner:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have a Campagnolo cartridge BB with notches around the outside of the cups, which requires a
Park BBT-4 (wrench shaped like a loop with teeth on the inside) to install/remove. This tool has
a tendency to slip off the cup, which is sometimes complained about on r.b.t. More experienced
posters have suggested using a Tacx or Stein tool which bolts to the BB and clamps the wrench
onto the cup, but these are rarer than the ubiquitous, if inadequate, Park.

Paul Kopit said:

It is not obvious but, the BBT-4 goes onto the bb nut with the handle pointed under the frame
and not outward to protect your knuckles. If you lay the bike on its side and hold the wrench
down with the heel of one hand and tap the wrench with a mallet, the tool works fine. Still, at
best, it's awful.

Yes, it is. It is a fundamentally flawed design, the tool would work much better if it didn't have
the angled handle. The angled handle creates an unnecessary torque in the "roll" axis of the tool,
and makes it tend to slip off, whichever way you point it.

The Tacx tool is better, but unfortunately has very uncomfortable pedal wrench notches on the
"handle" end, better wear gloves it you use it!

Sheldon "There Is No Good Tool For Those BBs" Brown +---------------------------------------+
| Some say the world will end in fire, | Some say in ice. | From what I've tasted of desire | I
| hold with those who favor fire. | But if it had to perish twice, | I think I know enough of
| hate | To say that for destruction ice | Is also great | And would suffice. --Robert Frost |
+---------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Kovie said:

What technique do you use to torque the Tacx tool down? I can't seem to find a proper deep socket
or crows foot for my torque wrench. Is it ok to just use an adj wrench and apply full force until
it moves no more?

That's about right, but whatever you do, test the BB spindle by spinning by hand it before fully
tightening. It can bind if too tight, especially if frame shell faces are not parallel (ie. needs
facing). Sometimes you have to leave it looser than it could be - no problem as long as it's not
loose enough to unscrew by itself.

~PB

"Kovie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<Jntvb.267283$Tr4.824118@attbi_s03>...

Quoted message said:

Two problems. One, I can't seem to find this crows foot bit, or the equivalent. And two, the Tacx
tool has hex wrench flats, and this crows foot is 8-point, so you won't get a good grip and risk
damaging either foot or tool. How do you make this work?

A superior alternative would be a VERY deep 32mm or 1-1/4" 6 or 12-point socket to go over the
flats. But I can't seem to find one in local hw stores. The closest I got was a Home Depot "deep"
socket that was nearly an inch too short.

I ended up using a 12" adjustable wrench and just cranked down until it wouldn't budge any more.
As this BB calls for around 50lb/ft or torque, I wasn't worried about TOO much torque.

--
Kovie [email hidden]

[snip]

Dear Kovie,

Two possible solutions:

1) Try other tool stores. Harbor Freight, for example, if you have a store or the time for on-line
ordering. They often have weirder sockets at low prices.

2) What about a set of lowly plumber's sockets, the kind that look like giant spark-plug wrenches?
They're about as thin-walled and deep as anything that you're likely to find, they're
surprisingly strong, they're cheap, they include 1 & 1/4", and you can always fix the pipes if
they don't work on your bike.

If you try #2, be sure to lower the back of your trousers before crouching to work on the bike.

Carl Fogel

[QUOTE]Originally posted by daveornee
[B]

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Kovie
I bought the Tacx tool for $24 at Licton's Bike recently. They have a web site. But I guess it is
rare as my lbs didn't have one and was amazed to see one when I showed it to them recently.

I'm still trying to figure out how to use this with a torque wrench, though.

I have use the Park Tourque wrench:
36mm 8-Point Torque Wrench Crow's Foot Bit TWB-368
It is tough to fit and hold it all together.
To be precise, you need to compensate for the addtional length in the tourque setting by multiplying by .85
I lay the bike on it's side on a clean rubber mat for this procedure.

Quoted message said:

Quoth Benjamin Weiner:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have a Campagnolo cartridge BB with notches around the outside of the cups, which requires a
Park BBT-4 (wrench shaped like a loop with teeth on the inside) to install/remove. This tool has
a tendency to slip off the cup,-snip-

Quoted message said:

Paul Kopit said:

It is not obvious but, the BBT-4 goes onto the bb nut with the handle pointed under the frame
-snip- Still, at best, it's awful.

Sheldon Brown said:

Yes, it is. It is a fundamentally flawed design, the tool would work much better if it didn't have
the angled handle. The angled handle creates an unnecessary torque in the "roll" axis of the tool,
and makes it tend to slip off, whichever way you point it. The Tacx tool is better, but
unfortunately has very uncomfortable pedal wrench notches on the "handle" end, better wear gloves
it you use it! Sheldon "There Is No Good Tool For Those BBs" Brown

I read that twice with my eyebrows knotted.

We use a set of four Tacx tools which screw into the spindle and are color coded Black for Shimano
8mm bolt, Green for Shimano spline, Blue for Record/Chorus and Red for the [censored]-type BB now adopted
as the Campagnolo ACS/ACH style. Part numbers are T44-15, -20, -25, -30.

You seem to refer to a Tacx tool with an incorporated handle. I haven't seen one like that.

These Tacx tools have removed immense amounts of suffering from our service department. They last a
long time, too. The most frequently used model, the Shimano 8mm one, goes eight or nine months here.

Before we had the Tacx, we used an assortment of tools which generally slipped. They were both time
consuming and ineffective, especially removing rusted BB assemblies.

We braze a pair of headset locknuts on the Tacx shaft so there's a wider wrench flat. We turn these
with a 24" adjustable wrench now instead of a thin 32mm headset wrench.

As an aside, our Phil Wood mounting tools, which are thirty years old, were angled like that Park
BBT4. We keep two angled but we've straightened the other two for the same reason Sheldon notes.
--
Andrew "Phil Wood and Vada Would, Too" Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

<< More experienced posters have suggested using a Tacx or Stein tool which bolts to the BB and
clamps the wrench onto the cup, but these are rarer than the ubiquitous, if inadequate, Park.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Quoted message said:

Then ya need a new biike shop. The Tacx tool may be 'rare' to some 'bike shops' but any that 'qui
si parla Campagnolo' has them or can get them.

In defense of my LBS, they may have the right tool, though they probably don't have another one to
sell in stock. I already have a BBT-4 tool and somehow the impulse to tear apart the bikes always
occurs when the shop is closed. My LBS stays my LBS not for the selection of parts and tools (which
is good, anyway) but because whenever I send a non-experienced friend there, they get treated well.
There is a shop that has more road and high end bits in town, but they have more attitude to go with
it. You can always find someplace to get stuff, but a shop with the right intangibles like a
friendly attitude is worth sticking by.

Quoted message said:

<< Assemble the bits in this order from inside to out: BBT-4 tool, roll of tape, fender washer,
crankbolt. Spin the crankbolt almost the way down, >><BR><BR>

Quoted message said:

Just like a Stein tool does.

Yup, it's basically a budget improvised copy of the Stein idea. Just a suggestion for those of us
who already have the inadequate BBT-4.

I said:

Quoted message said:

The Tacx tool is better, but unfortunately has very uncomfortable pedal wrench notches on
the "handle" end, better wear gloves it you use it! Sheldon "There Is No Good Tool For Those
BBs" Brown

I read that twice with my eyebrows knotted.

We use a set of four Tacx tools which screw into the spindle and are color coded Black for Shimano
8mm bolt, Green for Shimano spline, Blue for Record/Chorus and Red for the [censored]-type BB now adopted
as the Campagnolo ACS/ACH style. Part numbers are T44-15, -20, -25, -30.

You seem to refer to a Tacx tool with an incorporated handle. I haven't seen one like that.

I'm afraid my memory was faulty there. Indeed, the Tacx T4425 is a quite good tool for that. I had
forgotten that one (though it is on my Website...believe it or not, I don't have everything on my
site committed to memory...that's one of the reasons for the site!)

The tool I was thinking of is a flat wrench, and now that I think of it, I think it might be a VAR
unit, but I don't have it here at home tonight. Unlike the Park tool, it is flat, but it does suffer
a highly non-ergonomic opposite end.

Quoted message said:

These Tacx tools have removed immense amounts of suffering from our service department. They
last a long time, too. The most frequently used model, the Shimano 8mm one, goes eight or nine
months here.

Before we had the Tacx, we used an assortment of tools which generally slipped. They were both
time consuming and ineffective, especially removing rusted BB assemblies.

We braze a pair of headset locknuts on the Tacx shaft so there's a wider wrench flat. We turn
these with a 24" adjustable wrench now instead of a thin 32mm headset wrench.

That's a good trick. We mount the tool in a vise for the seriously recalcitrant bbs.

Sheldon "Whatchamacallit" Brown +--------------------------------------+
| Now, more than ever, America needs | the strong moral leadership of the | Nixon-Agnew team!
| --CREP |
+--------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Still not good enough as the Tacx has 32mm flats. Takes a 1-1/4" though.

--
Kovie [email hidden]

"daveornee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

daveornee [/i]

BQUOTEiOriginally posted by Kovie said:

I bought the Tacx tool for $24 at Licton's Bike recently. They have a web site. But I guess it
is rare as my lbs didn't have one and was amazed to see one when I showed it to them recently.
I'm still trying to figure out how to use this with a torque wrench, though. I have use the
Park Tourque wrench: 36mm 8-Point Torque Wrench Crow's Foot Bit TWB-368 It is tough to fit and
hold it all together. To be precise, you need to compensate for the addtional length in the

tourque

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

setting by multiplying by .85 I lay the bike on it's side on a clean rubber mat for this
procedure.

My Mistake! I meant 36mm 6-Point Torque Wrench Crow's Foot Bit TWB-366

--
David Ornee, Western Springs, IL USA

Quoted message said:

--------------------------<

Posted via cyclingforums.com cyclingforums.comcyclingforums.comOpen ↗

My lbs never heard of this tool till I brought it in for them to use, and asked me where they could
find one. I felt sorry for them and almost offered to let them borrow it! I told them where I got
it, and assume they were able to figure out the rest.

Incidentally, I found this Tacx tool after a quick google search at several online retailers.
Ordered it from Lickton's. Never looked for a wicker basket though. Was it the aero version?

--
Kovie [email hidden]

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Benjamin-<< In defense of my LBS, they may have the right tool, though

they

Quoted message said:

probably don't have another one to sell in stock >><BR><BR> << My LBS stays my LBS not for the
selection of parts and tools (which is good, anyway) but because whenever I send a non-experienced
friend there, they get treated well.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

I guess but I rankle when I hear about all these 'rare and hard to get'

tools

Quoted message said:

and parts. The bike biz is awash with catalogs and distributors. If I can

find

Quoted message said:

a whicker basket to put on a lady's cruiser, this bike shop can find a

TACX

Quoted message said:

tool.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"