Tyre width choice

Ben said:

Hi,

I have a Dawes horizon that needs some new tyres. It is used almost
exclusively on road, and occasionally on unmetalled roads but never on
really rough ground. It is occasionally loaded with panniers
containing quite a lot of stuff -next week I'm riding it (hopefully)
to Paris, so it's getting some TLC. I currently have 32mm tyres, and
the LBS suggetsed 28mm for better on-road performance. He made a
convincing case, but I don't really know the arguments - any thoughts?

The basic arguments are:

1. Generally speaking, the higher the pressure the lower the rolling
resistance.
2. But for a given pressure, fatter tyres actually have a lower rolling
resistance.
3. But narrower tyres can generally take a higher pressure since casing
tension is proportional to tyre fatness. Obviously you read the max
pressure off the sidewall for the actual value.
4. Fatter tyres are likely to be more comfortable to ride on, especially
if the route includes things like towpaths.
5. If you are planning on using a very high pressure, check the rim is
also OK for that pressure.

But not all tyres are the same. A friend has a Dawes Horizon and the
tyres that came with it (probably 32mm tyres, somewhere around there
anyway) are only rated for 75psi, which I think is rather low for
on-road performance. I reckon you'd want about 90psi for that width of
tyre, especially if you're carrying a bit of weight, which other brands
of tyre would be able to handle without a problem.

Also some tyres will have superior rolling resistance at the same
pressure than others, even if they're the same dimensions.

I would also aim to get a tyre with good puncture resistance.

Ben C said:

Ben said:

Hi,

Quoted message said:

I have a Dawes horizon that needs some new tyres. It is used almost
exclusively on road, and occasionally on unmetalled roads but never on
really rough ground. It is occasionally loaded with panniers
containing quite a lot of stuff -next week I'm riding it (hopefully)
to Paris, so it's getting some TLC. I currently have 32mm tyres, and
the LBS suggetsed 28mm for better on-road performance. He made a
convincing case, but I don't really know the arguments - any thoughts?

The basic arguments are:

1. Generally speaking, the higher the pressure the lower the rolling
resistance.
2. But for a given pressure, fatter tyres actually have a lower rolling
resistance.
3. But narrower tyres can generally take a higher pressure since casing
tension is proportional to tyre fatness. Obviously you read the max
pressure off the sidewall for the actual value.
4. Fatter tyres are likely to be more comfortable to ride on, especially
if the route includes things like towpaths.
5. If you are planning on using a very high pressure, check the rim is
also OK for that pressure.

But not all tyres are the same. A friend has a Dawes Horizon and the
tyres that came with it (probably 32mm tyres, somewhere around there
anyway) are only rated for 75psi, which I think is rather low for
on-road performance. I reckon you'd want about 90psi for that width of
tyre, especially if you're carrying a bit of weight, which other brands
of tyre would be able to handle without a problem.

Also some tyres will have superior rolling resistance at the same
pressure than others, even if they're the same dimensions.

I would also aim to get a tyre with good puncture resistance.

What was suggested was a 28mm armadillo, and the wheels Mavic A319's.
I'm just wondering whether I should swap them for 32s - most of my
cycling is commuting, but the bike often, for instance, takes pannier
loads of shopping home. Hmmm....

Ben C said:

The basic arguments are:

1. Generally speaking, the higher the pressure the lower the rolling
resistance.
2. But for a given pressure, fatter tyres actually have a lower rolling
resistance.
3. But narrower tyres can generally take a higher pressure since casing
tension is proportional to tyre fatness. Obviously you read the max
pressure off the sidewall for the actual value.
4. Fatter tyres are likely to be more comfortable to ride on, especially
if the route includes things like towpaths.
5. If you are planning on using a very high pressure, check the rim is
also OK for that pressure.

Also, as pointed out in an article I read by Mike Burrows (IIRC):
6. Wider tyres give more wind resistance.

But I'm inclined to believe that won't make a huge difference for touring.

I'm very happy running 35mm tyres at 100psi. I was less happy when I
tried narrower (28mm front, 25mm rear) tyres at 120psi - I found the
ride a little harsh and the handling slightly less sure.

Of course, my Street Machine is rather different to the OP's Horizon and
what works well on a touring recumbent may not work so well on a touring DF.

--
Danny Colyer <http://www.redpedals.co.uk>
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down.
Daddy, why did you put that down?" - Charlie Colyer, age 2

Ben said:

Hi,

I have a Dawes horizon that needs some new tyres. It is used almost
exclusively on road, and occasionally on unmetalled roads but never on
really rough ground. It is occasionally loaded with panniers
containing quite a lot of stuff -next week I'm riding it (hopefully)
to Paris, so it's getting some TLC. I currently have 32mm tyres, and
the LBS suggetsed 28mm for better on-road performance. He made a
convincing case, but I don't really know the arguments - any thoughts?

I have 3 bikes currently with, successively, 28, 32 and 35mm tyres. I
find the on-road performance quite similar (allowing for other
differences such as all-up weight) but the 28mm tyres are much less
confident on non-tarmac surfaces. I have found the 32mm (Conti Top
Touring) to be a very useful compromise tyre for carrying light loads
with little loss of speed. That said, I'm hardly a quick rider in the
first place.

--
Brian G
www.wetwo.co.uk

Ben said:

Also, since the cycling+ forum went belly up, does anyone know where
people have gone? I'm looking out for this years DunRun
reports...anyway, I'm off to bed. Due to affore mentioned ride, I
haven't slept for 37 hours :-)

I think a few people have gone to 'another cycling forum':
http://www.anothercyclingforum.com/index.php
There's quite a few Dun Run reports there anyway.

--
Craig Wallace
http://craig.neogeo.org.uk
http://www.neogeo.org.uk

"Craig Wallace" <craigw84@fast_NOSPAM_mail.fm> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ben said:

Also, since the cycling+ forum went belly up, does anyone know where
people have gone? I'm looking out for this years DunRun
reports...anyway, I'm off to bed. Due to affore mentioned ride, I
haven't slept for 37 hours :-)

I think a few people have gone to 'another cycling forum':
http://www.anothercyclingforum.com/index.php
There's quite a few Dun Run reports there anyway.

--
Craig Wallace
http://craig.neogeo.org.uk
http://www.neogeo.org.uk

Most C+ posters are here now :-
http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/
Where the consensus of opinion seems to be "C+ ... Without adverts"

'Yorkshireman'

--
Colin N.

Lincolnshire is mostly flat ... But the wind is mostly in your face

Ben said:

Ben C said:

Ben said:

Hi,

Quoted message said:

I have a Dawes horizon that needs some new tyres. It is used almost
exclusively on road, and occasionally on unmetalled roads but never on
really rough ground. It is occasionally loaded with panniers
containing quite a lot of stuff -next week I'm riding it (hopefully)
to Paris, so it's getting some TLC. I currently have 32mm tyres, and
the LBS suggetsed 28mm for better on-road performance. He made a
convincing case, but I don't really know the arguments - any thoughts?

The basic arguments are:

1. Generally speaking, the higher the pressure the lower the rolling
resistance.
2. But for a given pressure, fatter tyres actually have a lower rolling
resistance.
3. But narrower tyres can generally take a higher pressure since casing
tension is proportional to tyre fatness. Obviously you read the max
pressure off the sidewall for the actual value.
4. Fatter tyres are likely to be more comfortable to ride on, especially
if the route includes things like towpaths.
5. If you are planning on using a very high pressure, check the rim is
also OK for that pressure.

But not all tyres are the same. A friend has a Dawes Horizon and the
tyres that came with it (probably 32mm tyres, somewhere around there
anyway) are only rated for 75psi, which I think is rather low for
on-road performance. I reckon you'd want about 90psi for that width of
tyre, especially if you're carrying a bit of weight, which other brands
of tyre would be able to handle without a problem.

Also some tyres will have superior rolling resistance at the same
pressure than others, even if they're the same dimensions.

I would also aim to get a tyre with good puncture resistance.

What was suggested was a 28mm armadillo, and the wheels Mavic A319's.
I'm just wondering whether I should swap them for 32s - most of my
cycling is commuting, but the bike often, for instance, takes pannier
loads of shopping home. Hmmm....

prob still be okay as long as you don't crash though pot holes etc but
yes will be more prone if thinner all being equal.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Quoted message said:

I have a Dawes horizon that needs some new tyres. It is used almost
exclusively on road, and occasionally on unmetalled roads but never on
really rough ground. It is occasionally loaded with panniers
containing quite a lot of stuff -next week I'm riding it (hopefully)
to Paris, so it's getting some TLC. I currently have 32mm tyres, and
the LBS suggetsed 28mm for better on-road performance. He made a
convincing case, but I don't really know the arguments - any thoughts?

If speed is your thing and you're not worried about slightly skittish off
road performance, 28mm are lovely. Efficiency gains will be small, and
insignificant if you're a trundly.

On 30 Jul, 11:12, Mark
<pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have a Dawes horizon that needs some new tyres. It is used almost
exclusively on road, and occasionally on unmetalled roads but never on
really rough ground. It is occasionally loaded with panniers
containing quite a lot of stuff -next week I'm riding it (hopefully)
to Paris, so it's getting some TLC. I currently have 32mm tyres, and
the LBS suggetsed 28mm for better on-road performance. He made a
convincing case, but I don't really know the arguments - any thoughts?

If speed is your thing and you're not worried about slightly skittish off
road performance, 28mm are lovely. Efficiency gains will be small, and
insignificant if you're a trundly.

I like going as fast as I can - that doesn't equate neccesarily to
fast compared to to others, and when on tour speed is set by the group
anyway :-)
I think I'll give them a go - as long as I can ride with lots of
shopping / on tow paths if needed without
actually falling off or damaging anything, I'll be happy :-)

Ben

Mark
<pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have a Dawes horizon that needs some new tyres. It is used almost
exclusively on road, and occasionally on unmetalled roads but never on
really rough ground. It is occasionally loaded with panniers
containing quite a lot of stuff -next week I'm riding it (hopefully)
to Paris, so it's getting some TLC. I currently have 32mm tyres, and
the LBS suggetsed 28mm for better on-road performance. He made a
convincing case, but I don't really know the arguments - any thoughts?

If speed is your thing and you're not worried about slightly skittish off
road performance, 28mm are lovely. Efficiency gains will be small, and
insignificant if you're a trundly.

the other advantage is pressure while my partner probably does fit into
the trundie bracket, she also hates low pressure tires, about 100PSI is
just right.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

In article <[email hidden]>, Ben
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I have a Dawes horizon that needs some new tyres. It is used almost
exclusively on road, and occasionally on unmetalled roads but never on
really rough ground. It is occasionally loaded with panniers
containing quite a lot of stuff -next week I'm riding it (hopefully)
to Paris, so it's getting some TLC. I currently have 32mm tyres, and
the LBS suggetsed 28mm for better on-road performance. He made a
convincing case, but I don't really know the arguments - any thoughts?

To some extent it depends on the tyre. I used to run Nutrak Marathons
(anyone remember them) on my posh tourer and Michelin World Tours on my
hack bike - the World Tours were wider, a bit heavier and a lot cheaper
but they gave a more comfortable ride which probably made up for them
being a bit slower. There again I used to run 18mm slicks on my race
bike and they were comfortable too, but that's a different sort of bike
and a different sort of riding. On a touring bike you measure speed in
terms of distance in a day rather than splitting seconds over ten miles,
so I'd tend to go with the comfort option.

Roger Merriman said:

Quoted message said:

What was suggested was a 28mm armadillo, and the wheels Mavic A319's.
I'm just wondering whether I should swap them for 32s - most of my
cycling is commuting, but the bike often, for instance, takes pannier
loads of shopping home. Hmmm....

prob still be okay as long as you don't crash though pot holes etc but
yes will be more prone if thinner all being equal.

I try to avoid crashing through pot-holes, but sometimes encounter them
all the same. The other week I crossed a junction at 45km/h and noticed
to late a hole; the rear wheel hit it and the dreaded fft-fft-fft
informed me that I was going to be walking the rest of the way home.
had a pair of nasty cuts in the tube where it had crashed against the
rim.

I find that having my 28mm tyres (on a Dawes Horizon - I think they're
28mm, could be 32mm (rated for 115psi)) pumped up high makes a real
difference to the risk of puncture. I usually go for 100-115psi,
depending on my mood (rather than anything more scientific). It's a less
comfortable ride, certainly, but I prefer it to the feeling that I'm
pedalling through a pillow.

What I did find at first is that at higher pressures I got spoke-hole
punctures all the time. I fixed this, after a certain amount of messing
about, by using better rim-tape, and filing the edges of the
spoke-holes, which were rough.

Daniele

D.M. Procida said:

Roger Merriman said:

Quoted message said:

What was suggested was a 28mm armadillo, and the wheels Mavic A319's.
I'm just wondering whether I should swap them for 32s - most of my
cycling is commuting, but the bike often, for instance, takes pannier
loads of shopping home. Hmmm....

prob still be okay as long as you don't crash though pot holes etc but
yes will be more prone if thinner all being equal.

I try to avoid crashing through pot-holes, but sometimes encounter them
all the same. The other week I crossed a junction at 45km/h and noticed
to late a hole; the rear wheel hit it and the dreaded fft-fft-fft
informed me that I was going to be walking the rest of the way home.
had a pair of nasty cuts in the tube where it had crashed against the
rim.

true urban driving is like that, mind you i'd forgotten how lumpy bumpy
the roads are around my folks place.

Quoted message said:

I find that having my 28mm tyres (on a Dawes Horizon - I think they're
28mm, could be 32mm (rated for 115psi)) pumped up high makes a real
difference to the risk of puncture. I usually go for 100-115psi,
depending on my mood (rather than anything more scientific). It's a less
comfortable ride, certainly, but I prefer it to the feeling that I'm
pedalling through a pillow.

Sa likes the tires up to 100PSI or so, i like them about that on my old
bike as i use it for zipping about. i might fit some fatter tires on the
pootle into town bike as speed isn't the essance.

but yes bikes do zip along and feel better at higher pressures to a
point i guess.

Quoted message said:

What I did find at first is that at higher pressures I got spoke-hole
punctures all the time. I fixed this, after a certain amount of messing
about, by using better rim-tape, and filing the edges of the
spoke-holes, which were rough.

Quoted message said:

Daniele

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com