Is Vino Safe?

well, given his disposition i wouldnt worry about him too much. he is a tough guy; he will get through this. besides, he still has the support of powerful leaders back home.

as far as being deperate during the tour b/c of his crashes... im sure he felt desperate but i dont think that drove him to dope given his history, his past connections, his former teams... he has probably been a doper for a very, very long time...

finally, he brought this all on his own. had he not been an egomanical, selfish [censored] his team would be enjoying the ride to paris in yellow right now...

Eagle10 said:

[font=Verdana]First In NO way do I excuse what Vino did, presuming he did what he is accused of and it was not a lab botched up job.[/font]
[font=Verdana]If indeed it was true he was either selfish or it was just down right stupid. Or he made a terrible mistake because of his circumstances.[/font]

[font=Verdana]But in saying this I keep coming back to the "what if factor".
What really drove him to this.[/font]

[font=Verdana]Look at the facts: What If[/font]

[font=Verdana]1) The tremendous pressure he was under the months leading up to the tour. He was the #1 favorite to win.[/font]
[font=Verdana]All the betting odds around the world had him in the lead.[/font]

[font=Verdana]2) He crashes and was under incredible distress over
a) losing 5 minutes that first day to the leader
b) coping with extreme pain with no pain medications[/font]

[font=Verdana]3) Not sleeping night after night due to pain, exhaustion, riding everyday gritting his teeth through every minute, no pain meds.[/font]
[font=Verdana]Days of 100 degrees sun pounding down on open wounds. No one talks about the hip injury that he had been enduring.[/font]

[font=Verdana]4) The Minister from his country turning up... he has to perform ..his future depends on it.[/font]

[font=Verdana]5) He is very low, we see that from the emotional breakdowns at the end of several of the early days after the crash.[/font]

[font=Verdana]Head games start to play a part, does he weaken under ALL this pressure and submit to taking a chance just to get back in the race.[/font]

[font=Verdana]This very well could have happened this way I would like to think it was a dreadful mistake on his part.[/font]

[font=Verdana]Either way his life is truly over now. [/font]
[font=Verdana]The embarrassment of facing his countrymen, the other bike riders and judgment from the world as a cheater.[/font]
[font=Verdana]The ban of riding in any more events for 4 years or more. The possibility of never being accepted back into the business again.[/font]
[font=Verdana]Losing a years earnings, massive law suits. Maybe losing everything.
His team, presuming they were not guilty also, [/font][font=Verdana]turning against him.[/font]

[font=Verdana]Nowhere to hide and nowhere to go and no friends, only the constant camera hounding him everywhere he will go.[/font]

[font=Verdana]As fragile as he must be right now I wonder if he can handle all of this ongoing nightmare. [/font]
[font=Verdana]Personally I am not sure he can take it. [/font]

[font=Verdana]If it was just a stupid mistake what a price to pay! [/font]
[font=Verdana]If it is a lab botch job what a price to pay!
[font=Verdana]On the other hand if in his conscious mind he has been doping for months then he has only himself to blame.[/font]
[font=Verdana]I hope the latter is not true. Maybe we will never know the real truth.[/font]
[/font]
[font=Verdana]I want to think that unlike some riders who have been caught/ and many who have not, Vino was caught in [/font][font=Verdana]whirlwind of events that caught him off guard.[/font]

[font=Verdana]I did not post this to get bashed please. I am just tring to make some sense of what happened.[/font]

[font=Verdana]Peace.[/font]

Sorry, Eagle, but that's really not much different from what was said about Landis last year. The ruined hip, the last chance, the terrible day he came undone in the mountains, the pressure to be the next American after Lance.

A lot of people think he might have just done something desperate on that stage to come back. Whether he doped all along or just then to change his fortunes it can never be okay. He disgraced himself, his team and the USA.

Except he didn't do it. The French didn't want him to win. Which is what Vino tried to say the other day. The notorious enmity between the French and the Kazakhs -not.

I feel your pain, really. Last year was tough on me as a fan. I was miserably disappointed because I thought he could really be clean. His ridiculous lying and legal wrangling make me have a lot more contempt for him than the act of cheating did. I'll never "believe" again, but I do still like the Tour and will keep watching, while a little wiser.

Your hero has feet of clay. You'll recover. He's just a bike racer. It's just a bike race. Life goes on.

Klodifan said:

well, given his disposition i wouldnt worry about him too much. he is a tough guy; he will get through this. besides, he still has the support of powerful leaders back home.

as far as being deperate during the tour b/c of his crashes... im sure he felt desperate but i dont think that drove him to dope given his history, his past connections, his former teams... he has probably been a doper for a very, very long time...

finally, he brought this all on his own. had he not been an egomanical, selfish [censored] his team would be enjoying the ride to paris in yellow right now...

Asuming they all stayed clean Astana could have won the Team race
Koden placed on the podium and Vino the hero of the tour who never quit.
This would have happened even in 31st place.

This tour has lost the excitement for me. Yes I should be rooting for Disco but I just happened to find Astana the team full of excitement and suprise.
Can you asnwer my question why Vino got 4 years and others only 2 years suspension. Thx.

I

why should you be rooting for disco? if anything, youll be even more let down by this team when you look beyond their veil... skeletons in the closet anyone?

Suspensions i have not heard anything about his possible punishment as we still are waiting for the b sample to come back. so first things first. hth

Klodifan said:

why should you be rooting for disco? if anything, youll be even more let down by this team when you look beyond their veil... skeletons in the closet anyone?

Suspensions i have not heard anything about his possible punishment as we still are waiting for the b sample to come back. so first things first. hth

I said " I should be" cause I am from USA (originally England) but I was an Astana fan all the way. Vino then Klowie

Watching the tour with a "yawn" now. There's a lot of sausage but no sizzle. Not rooting for anyone anymore .

Bob Roll said it was a 4 year suspension or lifetime for Vino !!!!!
Also heard it said by other commentators. So found the time length strange in comparison.

That would be something if the B test comes back negative. A lot of people will really have their knickers in a twist. Wow! now that would be something.

IF that happens we would see a lot of "sizzle"

oh ok, what bob roll was talking about was a mandatory 2 year suspension from cycling, after which vino could return to racing on a pro continental team, for instance, assuming he could find a team to hire him. then another 2 year ban from the pro tour. roll was merely speculating. and then there is WADA

since vino signed the new uci charter, basically riders were forced to sign or be banned from stating the tour, this is what he can look forward to at the very least:

Quoted post said:

Riders who sign and are then found guilty on doping charges will face a minimum two-year suspension. They would also be required to pay one years' salary as a fine, with the money being used to fight doping.

After the crash and time losses, pressure of performance etc. etc.
Vino then thought to himself hmmm....... Hey!!
It work for Floyd last year :eek:

this thread is beyond retarded. cyclists don't hire michele ferrari to learn how to train at lactate threshold.

SaintAndrew said:

this thread is beyond retarded. cyclists don't hire michele ferrari to learn how to train at lactate threshold.

I think you posted in the wrong thread.

Better luck next ime

no, i found my mark. you actually imply that vino cold have only had one transfusion, which he tried out of desperation after the crash. 🙄

Trev_S said:

After the crash and time losses, pressure of performance etc. etc.
Vino then thought to himself hmmm....... Hey!!
It work for Floyd last year :eek:

Cute!

American's are understanding, question circumstances, the proof is with his book, now #1 on the best sellers list via the internet.

Vino will not have it that easy I think.

Last year only was the torch that lighted the fire this year we have full blown fire that will take a long time to put out.

Eagle10 said:

Cute!

American's are understanding, question circumstances, the proof is with his book, now #1 on the best sellers list via the internet.

Vino will not have it that easy I think.

Last year only was the torch that lighted the fire this year we have full blown fire that will take a long time to put out.

What does that last sentence mean? 😕

Americans might be understanding of a person's feelings, but they do not understand pro cycling! Landis has pinned his hopes on our extreme dislike of the French and the belief that they don't want us to win.

I hope Levi wins the Tour just to shove that down Floyd's throat.

And why should Vino have it easy?

nns1400 said:

What does that last sentence mean? 😕

Americans might be understanding of a person's feelings, but they do not understand pro cycling! Landis has pinned his hopes on our extreme dislike of the French and the belief that they don't want us to win.

I hope Levi wins the Tour just to shove that down Floyd's throat.

And why should Vino have it easy?

I did NOT say Vino should have it easy, I said in comparison to Landis and his so called acceptance of the American people and his book sales Vino will not have it that easy.

I thought I was quite clear on what my last sentence said. So will try again.

In other words, last year Landis was accused after the race. On the contrary Vino and others were dismiseed for doping along with Rasmussen for lying , this happened when there was maximum TV and media coverage of the Tour. The spectators have been more in involved with the daily scandel.
It just seems that that the topic of doping has been inflamed even bigger than last year.
Last year the topic was ignighted, this year it is a full fire.

Klodifan said:

oh ok, what bob roll was talking about was a mandatory 2 year suspension from cycling, after which vino could return to racing on a pro continental team, for instance, assuming he could find a team to hire him. then another 2 year ban from the pro tour. roll was merely speculating. and then there is WADA

since vino signed the new uci charter, basically riders were forced to sign or be banned from stating the tour, this is what he can look forward to at the very least:

I see the Astana Team site is back up will daily news.
Passing this on as I do not speak the language.
Not sure what country you are from can U help
OR
Maybe you have someone who does understand. Curious what the latest is.

team-astana.euhome.phpOpen ↗
I heard Kloden is going to make an announcement but waiting on the B test.

Eagle10 said:

I see the Astana Team site is back up will daily news.
Passing this on as I do not speak the language.
Not sure what country you are from can U help
OR
Maybe you have someone who does understand. Curious what the latest is.

team-astana.euhome.phpOpen ↗
I heard Kloden is going to make an announcement but waiting on the B test.

if you look at the site, in the upper right hand corner, you will see "F E K" that stands for the language options available. click on E and voila

anyways, latest news is about their upcoming races, not vino

Eagle10 said:

I did NOT say Vino should have it easy, I said in comparison to Landis and his so called acceptance of the American people and his book sales Vino will not have it that easy.

I thought I was quite clear on what my last sentence said. So will try again.

In other words, last year Landis was accused after the race. On the contrary Vino and others were dismiseed for doping along with Rasmussen for lying , this happened when there was maximum TV and media coverage of the Tour. The spectators have been more in involved with the daily scandel.
It just seems that that the topic of doping has been inflamed even bigger than last year.
Last year the topic was ignighted, this year it is a full fire.

Have to disagree there. When the American winner of the Tour tested positive after one of the most amazing stages anyone had ever seen there was a fire STORM! The winner has never tested positive before. You couldn't even get on this damn forum half the time it was so slammed.

well i can see both points of view. when landis tested positive the tour should have announced it immediately. it quite possibly would have changed the outcome of the race, as i think there was another mountain stage to go, and of course the itt. they were very slow to announce the results. this year, probably b/c of last year, they have been more on top of it.

more problems for vino and astana...

Out of pocket punters take Astana to court

Posted 10 hours 14 minutes ago

Two Belgium punters have started legal proceedings after being left out of pocket when Astana retired from the Tour de France following their leader Alexandre Vinokourov's positive dope test.

The duo, who placed bets of 100 euros and 25 euros on Astana's German rider Andreas Kloden, are suing the Kazakh team, Tour organisers ASO and also plan to pursue Vinokourov if his positive test for blood doping is confirmed.

Their lawyer, Christophe Bleret said: "The interest for them is not money, it's symbolic.

"A ruling for compensation will serve to act as a precedent to make riders and their managers responsible."

Klodifan said:

more problems for vino and astana...

Out of pocket punters take Astana to court

Posted 10 hours 14 minutes ago

Two Belgium punters have started legal proceedings after being left out of pocket when Astana retired from the Tour de France following their leader Alexandre Vinokourov's positive dope test.

The duo, who placed bets of 100 euros and 25 euros on Astana's German rider Andreas Kloden, are suing the Kazakh team, Tour organisers ASO and also plan to pursue Vinokourov if his positive test for blood doping is confirmed.

Their lawyer, Christophe Bleret said: "The interest for them is not money, it's symbolic.

"A ruling for compensation will serve to act as a precedent to make riders and their managers responsible."

OMG! Has anyone ever felt the wrath like he is. Sounds like he might as well sit on the streets with a work for food banner.
There are some caves in Afganistan that can hide him!

I started off being very angry with him I am almost starting to feel pity for him.I hope for his sake the B test comes back negative.

I feel sorry for his wife and 3 kids though.

Bet he is wishing he was hurt a little more and had quit the TDF.