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Testers Still A Step Behind?

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Road Cycling
Published
18 November 2003
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21 November 2003
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B. Lafferty
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  1. procycling.comnews main.asp Leading amateur dies of heart problem, but
    doubts persist

    Following the shocking death of the 24-year-old Marco Rusconi on Friday, an autopsy has returned
    the verdict that the leading Italian amateur may have suffered from a congenital heart problem.

    The brother-in-law of Quick Step-Davitamon star Luca Paolini, Rusconi was the victim of a heart
    attack after feeling unwell at his own birthday party in a bar in Como, Northern Italy, on
    Friday night.

    Following the results of the autopsy, made public yesterday, authorities in Como may now decide
    to launch an investigation into Rusconi’s tragic death. Rusconi is the third elite cyclist to
    die suddenly of cardiac arrest this year, after 33 year-old Denis Zanette and 23 year-old
    Fabrice Salanson.

    In May the even more shocking demise of the 16-year-old Marco Ceriani after a mid-race heart attack
    caused indignation in the Italian cycling community. The scandal was hardly diffused by another
    verdict of "death by natural causes."

    A leading amateur prospect, Marco Rusconi had enjoyed a successful trial alongside Paolini in the
    Quick Step-Davitamon team at the end of last season, having decided to make a final bid to turn pro'
    after giving up his job with the Italian electrical utility, ENEL. On Friday night he died in the
    arms of another leading Italian fledgling, his Ceramiche Pagoncelli team-mate, Paride Grillo.

    Grillo was said at the weekend to be shell-shocked by the incident.

    The directeur sportif of both Rusconi and Grillo, Alberto Cappelleti, stated on Saturday: "I’m
    rocked with grief. Marco was a healthy and generous lad, who had shown a capacity for remarkable
    efforts when climbing. In two years with us no heart deficiency had ever come to light. Moreover, he
    had been resting for the last month."

  2. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    procycling.comnews main.asp Leading amateur dies of heart problem, but
    doubts persist

    Following the shocking death of the 24-year-old Marco Rusconi on Friday,


    an

    Quoted message said:

    autopsy has returned the verdict that the leading Italian amateur may have suffered from a
    congenital heart problem.

    The brother-in-law of Quick Step-Davitamon star Luca Paolini, Rusconi was the victim of a heart
    attack after feeling unwell at his own birthday


    party

    Quoted message said:

    in a bar in Como, Northern Italy, on Friday night.

    Following the results of the autopsy, made public yesterday, authorities


    in

    Quoted message said:

    Como may now decide to launch an investigation into Rusconi's tragic


    death.

    Quoted message said:

    Rusconi is the third elite cyclist to die suddenly of cardiac arrest this year, after 33 year-old
    Denis Zanette and 23 year-old Fabrice Salanson.

    In May the even more shocking demise of the 16-year-old Marco Ceriani


    after

    Quoted message said:

    a mid-race heart attack caused indignation in the Italian cycling


    community.

    Quoted message said:

    The scandal was hardly diffused by another verdict of "death by natural causes."

    A leading amateur prospect, Marco Rusconi had enjoyed a successful trial alongside Paolini in the
    Quick Step-Davitamon team at the end of last season, having decided to make a final bid to turn
    pro' after giving up


    his

    Quoted message said:

    job with the Italian electrical utility, ENEL. On Friday night he died in the arms of another
    leading Italian fledgling, his Ceramiche Pagoncelli team-mate, Paride Grillo.

    Grillo was said at the weekend to be shell-shocked by the incident.

    The directeur sportif of both Rusconi and Grillo, Alberto Cappelleti,


    stated

    Quoted message said:

    on Saturday: "I'm rocked with grief. Marco was a healthy and generous lad, who had shown a
    capacity for remarkable efforts when climbing. In two


    years

    Quoted message said:

    with us no heart deficiency had ever come to light. Moreover, he had been resting for the
    last month."

    There is nothing here to suggest use of drugs. The unfortunate truth is that, although rare,
    cardiac-related sudden death does occur in young individuals, both at rest and during exercise. Only
    if you could show that the rate of such events was statistically greater than expected would there
    be any reason for speculation.

    Andy Coggan

  3. "Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    There is nothing here to suggest use of drugs. The unfortunate truth is that, although rare,
    cardiac-related sudden death does occur in young individuals, both at rest and during exercise.
    Only if you could show that the rate of such events was statistically greater than expected would


    there

    Quoted message said:

    be any reason for speculation.

    Andy Coggan

    Perhaps nothing. A quick search came up with the following:

    www-unix.oit.umass.edusdathlete.htm Basketball and football were the two
    sports most represented among the athletes described in both studies. This is in part due to the
    relatively larger numbers of youth and young adults who participate in these sports. Overall, 12
    sports for males and 6 for females were represented in the study of high school and college
    athletes. Nevertheless, the occurrence of non-traumatic sports death is rare. The estimated rates
    for non-traumatic sports death in high school and college athletes are 7.5 and 1.3 per million
    athletes participating per year in males and females, respectively. Interestingly, the estimated
    rate is higher among college male athletes than among high school male athletes, 14.5 and 6.6 per
    million athletes participating per year, respectively.

    According to the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta, 100,000 young athletes die each year from
    all cardio-vascular disorders, including cardiomyopathy, as a result of participation in sports.
    This is twice as many as die in auto accidents. Of the 100,000 who die annually, 45,000 of them play
    basketball, not boxing or football.............Coronary artery disease is the major cause of
    exercise-related cardiovascular complications in adults, while in younger people the cause is
    congenital abnormality. The incidence of exercise death is low; approximately 0.75 per 100,000 young
    male athletes and .13 per 100,000 young female athletes. About six per 100,000 middle-aged men die
    during exertion each year.

    sciencenews.orgbob1.htm Despite the low absolute risk of cardiac problems
    during exercise in previously healthy men, the death rate per hour of exercise increases as activity
    continues. In a study in Rhode Island, for example, the relative risk of sudden death was seven
    times higher during jogging than during other activities.

    Most are young athletes who harbor one of these cardiovascular defects from birth, Maron said at a
    New York press briefing held by the American Medical Association. Such defects "usually cause no
    symptoms prior to the catastrophe," he added. Maron and his colleagues detail their findings in the
    July 17 Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA).

    They collected information on sudden deaths in athletes from 1985 through 1995. The probe turned up
    158 such deaths, 134 of them with a cardiovascular origin.

    The athletes ranged in age from 12 to 40. The largest group, 83 of the 134, was competing in high
    school sports. However, the series included 16 athletes who had achieved national or international
    fame in their sport. Sudden death felled the greatest number of young athletes in basketball and
    football. It also struck track, soccer, and baseball players and a few in eight other sports.

    The most common cardiovascular disease identified as responsible for sudden death was an inherited
    condition known as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM), a finding in line with previous research. In
    this disorder, caused by any one of several mutated genes, the heart's main pumping chamber, the
    left ventricle, is abnormally thick.

    The researchers were surprised to find that HCM was responsible for 48 percent of the sudden deaths
    in black athletes and just 26 percent of the deaths in white athletes. Earlier medical studies of
    HCM suggested that blacks rarely suffer from it. Maron thinks it possible that blacks with this
    genetic condition don't get a correct diagnosis as often as their white counterparts.

    heart1.com1 "Sudden Death on Sports Field" Wall Street Journal
    Rhonda L. Rundle

    JAMA 2002 Mar 13;287(10):1308-20 Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy: a systematic review. Maron BJ.

    J Am Coll Cardiol 2002 Oct 16;40(8):1431-6 Physiologic limits of left ventricular hypertrophy in
    elite junior athletes: relevance to differential diagnosis of athlete's heart and hypertrophic
    cardiomyopathy. Sharma S, Maron BJ, Whyte G, Firoozi S, Elliot PM, McKenna WJ

    Personal Communication, Arista Star, President & Founder of The Chad Foundation for Athletes
    and Artists

    livingheartfoundation.orgcolumbiaresults.html

    wispolitics.compr02020806.html

    columbia.edufootball screening.html

    ncsl.orgaed.htm

    Several of these recently dead cyclists died in their sleep, not while under performance
    stress. Were their deaths related to the inhereted risk factors noted above? And how do
    their deaths statistically compare to other athletic endeavors?

    Unfortunately, elite road cycling has several factors that point to possible non-natural
    causes, such as:

    1. History of doping in the sport with drugs that can cause heart problems. (eg. 18+ young Duth
    cyclists dead from heart attacks while sleeping in the late 1980s-early 1990s)
    2. Abuse of steroids admitted by more than a few riders, Thevenet being but one example.
    3. The discovery of designer steroids that may be involved but no means of testing for them
    except for thc.

    It may just be a bad year for elite level cycling heart disease. But then consider Laurent Fignon's
    statement in the current issue of Cycle Sport,

    "The whole world thinks that we are all doped our whole lives, which is totally false. They can
    say what they want. Perhaps I was doped, but that is only my concern. I endured, I was serious
    and I did what I had to do. If I die when I am 50, that's my problem." And a problem widows and
    surviving children.

    Let them dope, but set up that fund for the survivors.

  4. Andy Coggan said:

    There is nothing here to suggest use of drugs. The unfortunate truth is that, although rare,
    cardiac-related sudden death does occur in young individuals, both at rest and during exercise.
    Only if you could show that the rate of such events was statistically greater than expected would
    there be any reason for speculation.

    Andy Coggan

    Unfortunately, the speculation is due to the sorry history of drug abuse in the sport.
    Increased incidence would only be statistical confirmation of the expected morbidity and
    mortality. The unfair thing is that innocent athletes can and will be tarred with the
    same brush.

    Steve

  5. Andy Coggan said:

    There is nothing here to suggest use of drugs. The unfortunate truth is that, although rare,
    cardiac-related sudden death does occur in young individuals, both at rest and during exercise.
    Only if you could show that the rate of such events was statistically greater than expected
    would there be any reason for speculation.

    Andy Coggan

    Considering the previously unknown THG junk coming out of a Burlingame, CA, lab, I think it's
    prudent they consider there's another designer doping compound out there in the wild.

  6. B. Lafferty said:


    Perhaps nothing. A quick search came up with the following:

    I presume sudden death secondary to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy is due to arrhythmias?

    Steve

  7. "Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:


    There is nothing here to suggest use of drugs. The unfortunate truth is that, although rare,
    cardiac-related sudden death does occur in young individuals, both at rest and during exercise.
    Only if you could show that the rate of such events was statistically greater than expected would
    there be any reason for speculation.

    Andy Coggan

    Your lack of inquisitiveness or skepticism surprises me. I'd even go as far as saying naive...

    Recently from cycling news...

    Italians spending €600 million/year on drugs?

    The president of the anti-doping commission of the Italian Olympic Committee, Sandro Donati, has
    made the surprising claim that Italian sportspeople are spending over €600 million per year on
    performance enhancing drugs. Donati's claim was made in a report for the Libera association, and
    stemmed from the discrepancy between the number of drugs manufactured in the country and the number
    used for treating the
    ill.

    Donati was quoted as saying "These figures aren't explained by the number of ill people in Italy and
    who really need these products, therefore it is hypothetical that this surplus goes to supplying the
    athletes." Donati claimed that there were 400,000 Italians doping themselves, adding that the gap
    was around €300 million per year for EPO and €250 million per year for growth hormone alone. Putting
    these numbers in perspective, it means 400,000 Italians are spending 0.05 percent of Italy's Gross
    Domestic Product on performance enhancing drugs for sport.

    Donati believed that the pharmaceutical companies were involved in the illegal activities, and "have
    deliberately put a surplus of products onto the market" in order to increase sales.

  8. Problem is that Donati has been making similar accusations for years, and has never produced a shred
    of evidence.

    I'd like to see Donati's sources, since while there is some truth in what he says, I think he is
    prone to extreme exaggeration.

    mr60percent said:

    "Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:


    There is nothing here to suggest use of drugs. The unfortunate truth is that, although rare,
    cardiac-related sudden death does occur in young individuals, both at rest and during exercise.
    Only if you could show that the rate of such events was statistically greater than expected would
    there be any reason for speculation.

    Andy Coggan

    Your lack of inquisitiveness or skepticism surprises me. I'd even go as far as saying naive...

    Recently from cycling news...

    Italians spending €600 million/year on drugs?

    The president of the anti-doping commission of the Italian Olympic Committee, Sandro Donati, has
    made the surprising claim that Italian sportspeople are spending over €600 million per year on
    performance enhancing drugs. Donati's claim was made in a report for the Libera association, and
    stemmed from the discrepancy between the number of drugs manufactured in the country and the
    number used for treating the
    ill.

    Donati was quoted as saying "These figures aren't explained by the number of ill people in Italy
    and who really need these products, therefore it is hypothetical that this surplus goes to
    supplying the athletes." Donati claimed that there were 400,000 Italians doping themselves, adding
    that the gap was around €300 million per year for EPO and €250 million per year for growth hormone
    alone. Putting these numbers in perspective, it means 400,000 Italians are spending 0.05 percent
    of Italy's Gross Domestic Product on performance enhancing drugs for sport.

    Donati believed that the pharmaceutical companies were involved in the illegal activities, and
    "have deliberately put a surplus of products onto the market" in order to increase sales.

    --
    Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum
    pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti
    ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-ewe
    dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash

  9. "mr60percent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    There is nothing here to suggest use of drugs. The unfortunate truth is that, although rare,
    cardiac-related sudden death does occur in young individuals, both at rest and during exercise.
    Only if you could show


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the rate of such events was statistically greater than expected would


    there

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    be any reason for speculation.

    Andy Coggan

    Your lack of inquisitiveness or skepticism surprises me. I'd even go as far as saying naive...

    Not naive, just 1) realistic (see Lafferty's follow-up post for the incidence of sudden cardiac
    death in young individuals) and 2) bored with the endless speculation and innuendo by r.b.r. pundits
    that in the end means absolutely nothing.

    Andy Coggan

  10. "Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "mr60percent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    There is nothing here to suggest use of drugs. The unfortunate truth


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that, although rare, cardiac-related sudden death does occur in young individuals, both at
    rest and during exercise. Only if you could show


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the rate of such events was statistically greater than expected would


    there

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    be any reason for speculation.

    Andy Coggan

    Your lack of inquisitiveness or skepticism surprises me. I'd even go as far as saying naive...

    Not naive, just 1) realistic (see Lafferty's follow-up post for the incidence of sudden cardiac
    death in young individuals) and 2) bored with the endless speculation and innuendo by r.b.r.
    pundits that in the end


    means

    Quoted message said:

    absolutely nothing.

    Andy Coggan

    Except that some of the rbr pundits who spoke of wide spread drug use (epo and other drugs) in pro
    cycling unlitmately were shown to be correct. You need to consider the whole picture and not rely on
    the "security" of statistical analysis that may mean nothing.

  11. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "mr60percent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    >
    > There is nothing here to suggest use of drugs. The unfortunate truth


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > that, although rare, cardiac-related sudden death does occur in


    young

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > individuals, both at rest and during exercise. Only if you could


    show

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that

    Quoted message said:

    > the rate of such events was statistically greater than expected


    would

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    there

    Quoted message said:

    > be any reason for speculation.
    >
    > Andy Coggan

    Your lack of inquisitiveness or skepticism surprises me. I'd even go as far as saying naive...

    Not naive, just 1) realistic (see Lafferty's follow-up post for the incidence of sudden cardiac
    death in young individuals) and 2) bored


    with

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the endless speculation and innuendo by r.b.r. pundits that in the end


    means

    Quoted message said:

    absolutely nothing.

    Andy Coggan

    Except that some of the rbr pundits who spoke of wide spread drug use (epo and other drugs) in pro
    cycling unlitmately were shown to be correct.

    Which allows them to say "Nyeah, nyeah, I told you so!", but accomplishes nothing else. Like I
    said, boring.

    Quoted message said:

    You need to consider the whole picture and not rely on the "security" of statistical analysis that
    may mean nothing.

    I see that your grasp of the concept of probability is weak.

    Andy Coggan

  12. "Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KkMub.5897> > Except that some of the
    rbr pundits who spoke of wide spread drug use (epo

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and other drugs) in pro cycling unlitmately were shown to be correct.

    Which allows them to say "Nyeah, nyeah, I told you so!", but accomplishes nothing else. Like I
    said, boring.

    Quoted message said:

    You need to consider the whole picture and not rely on the "security" of statistical analysis
    that may mean nothing.

    I see that your grasp of the concept of probability is weak.

    Andy Coggan

    Ah Andy boy, give us some statistics from a span of say 40 years regarding racing cyclist deaths
    from heart problems where the cyclist was under the age of 23. Then we can discuss probability,
    trends and possible variables other than inherited heart defects. Further, of the cyclists who have
    died of heart problems in Europe since 1990, what percentage have been determined via post-mortem to
    have had an inherited heart defect?

    What we do know is that there is and has been serious abuse by cyclists of substances that can cause
    a myriad of health problems, including heart attacks. So, unlike you, it is incumbent upon both
    sporting and civil (meaning criminal investigators for the state) authorities to fully investigate
    these matters. Prudence dictates that investigations be done and done thoroughly. They don't have
    the luxury of your viewpoint when there's a body on a slab in the morgue.

  13. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KkMub.5897> > Except that some of the
    rbr pundits who spoke of wide spread drug use (epo

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and other drugs) in pro cycling unlitmately were shown to be correct.

    Which allows them to say "Nyeah, nyeah, I told you so!", but


    accomplishes

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    nothing else. Like I said, boring.

    Quoted message said:

    You need to consider the whole picture and not rely on the "security" of statistical analysis
    that may mean nothing.

    I see that your grasp of the concept of probability is weak.

    Andy Coggan

    Ah Andy boy, give us some statistics from a span of say 40 years regarding racing cyclist deaths
    from heart problems where the cyclist was under the age of 23. Then we can discuss probability,
    trends and possible


    variables

    Quoted message said:

    other than inherited heart defects.

    I'm glad that you agree with me that until such information is available, there's no reason for, and
    no point to, speculating about some unknown drug that cannot yet be detected. (That's especially
    true considering that you started this thread citing a *single* event.)

    Andy Coggan

  14. "Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hmNub.7027

    Quoted message said:

    I'm glad that you agree with me that until such information is available, there's no reason for,
    and no point to, speculating about some unknown


    drug

    Quoted message said:

    that cannot yet be detected. (That's especially true considering that you started this thread
    citing a *single* event.)

    1. I started this thread by posting an article from ProCycling that made reference to not one, but
    noted three other deaths this year from heart attacks. But you read that, I'm certain.

    2. "I'm glad that you agree with me that until such information is available, there's no reason for,
    and no point to, speculating about some unknown drug that cannot yet be detected."-----Hmmmmm.
    We'll just have to disagree on this one. As I and others on this thread have pointed out, the
    problem of drug use in the sport is there and in the open--including the reality of a designer
    steroid having just be discovered. It's naive to think there aren't more out there and that they
    could be causing deaths. That reality really requires the authorities to speculate and do a
    differential analysis of the deaths to rule out drugs. They can't rely on a statistical analysis
    as you would apparently prefer to do until foul play rears up to smack them in the face. Have you
    been hanging with Hein lately?

  15. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hmNub.7027

    Quoted message said:

    I'm glad that you agree with me that until such information is


    available,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    there's no reason for, and no point to, speculating about some unknown


    drug

    Quoted message said:

    that cannot yet be detected. (That's especially true considering that


    you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    started this thread citing a *single* event.)

    1. I started this thread by posting an article from ProCycling that made reference to not one, but
    noted three other deaths this year from heart attacks. But you read that, I'm certain.

    One, three, I still don't see it qualifying as a "cluster" that would justify your speculation (as
    demonstrated by the statistics you eventually presented).

    Quoted message said:

    2. "I'm glad that you agree with me that until such information is available, there's no reason
    for, and no point to, speculating about some unknown


    drug

    Quoted message said:

    that cannot yet be detected."-----Hmmmmm. We'll just have to disagree on
    this one. As I and others on this thread have pointed out, the problem


    of

    Quoted message said:

    drug use in the sport is there and in the open--including the reality of a designer steroid having
    just be discovered. It's naive to think there aren't more out there and that they could be causing
    deaths. That reality really requires the authorities to speculate

    "...*authorities* to speculate..." (emphasis added). So what service to society does your
    speculation here serve?

    Quoted message said:

    and do a differential analysis of the deaths to rule out drugs. They can't rely on a statistical


    analysis

    Quoted message said:

    as you would apparently prefer to do until foul play rears up to smack


    them

    Quoted message said:

    in the face. Have you been hanging with Hein lately?

    No, too busy trying to educate Warren about the difference between strength and power (I think he's
    finally gotten it).

    Andy Coggan

  16. "Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    1. I started this thread by posting an article from ProCycling that made reference to not one,
    but noted three other deaths this year from heart attacks. But you read that, I'm certain.

    One, three, I still don't see it qualifying as a "cluster" that would justify your speculation (as
    demonstrated by the statistics you eventually presented).

    I think you're hung up on claiming that three deaths represent a statistic that leads me to
    speculation that the deaths were drug related. That isn't what I'm saying. They may or may not
    represent a suspicious cluster. I'm saying that the deaths, in the current drug using circumstances
    of the sport, require investigation to rule out drug use. I don't think a prudent prosecutor or
    investigating magistrate would disagree.

    Someone must have cycling death statistics for Europe. I'd like to see them over a period of time
    from before epo to the present.

  17. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    1. I started this thread by posting an article from ProCycling that


    made

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    reference to not one, but noted three other deaths this year from


    heart

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    attacks. But you read that, I'm certain.

    One, three, I still don't see it qualifying as a "cluster" that would justify your speculation
    (as demonstrated by the statistics you


    eventually

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    presented).

    I think you're hung up on claiming that three deaths represent a statistic that leads me to
    speculation that the deaths were drug related. That


    isn't

    Quoted message said:

    what I'm saying.

    It's not? Seems to me that is *exactly* what you're speculating - in fact, you seem to think that
    not only are they drug-related, but that they are due to some undetectable substance. (If that's not
    the case, then why did you title this tread what you did?)

    Quoted message said:

    They may or may not represent a suspicious cluster. I'm saying that the deaths, in the current
    drug using circumstances of the sport, require investigation to rule out drug use. I don't think a


    prudent

    Quoted message said:

    prosecutor or investigating magistrate would disagree.

    How about we keep the prosecutors and investigating magistrates out of it until a medical examiner
    does their job? If *they* come up with evidence of drug use (which sudden cardiac-related death in a
    young person is not, even if that person was a cyclist), then refer the matter to the judicial
    system to see if any further action is warranted. (Just because a death is drug-related doesn't mean
    that there is somebody still living who deserves prosecution.)

    Quoted message said:

    Someone must have cycling death statistics for Europe. I'd like to see


    them

    Quoted message said:

    over a period of time from before epo to the present.

    That would be interesting.

    Andy Coggan

  18. "Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    procycling.comnews main.asp Leading amateur dies of heart problem, but
    doubts persist

    Following the shocking death of the 24-year-old Marco Rusconi on Friday,


    an

    Quoted message said:

    autopsy has returned the verdict that the leading Italian amateur may have suffered from a
    congenital heart problem.

    The brother-in-law of Quick Step-Davitamon star Luca Paolini, Rusconi was the victim of a heart
    attack after feeling unwell at his own birthday


    party

    Quoted message said:

    in a bar in Como, Northern Italy, on Friday night.

    Following the results of the autopsy, made public yesterday, authorities


    in

    Quoted message said:

    Como may now decide to launch an investigation into Rusconi's tragic


    death.

    Quoted message said:

    Rusconi is the third elite cyclist to die suddenly of cardiac arrest this year, after 33
    year-old Denis Zanette and 23 year-old Fabrice Salanson.

    In May the even more shocking demise of the 16-year-old Marco Ceriani


    after

    Quoted message said:

    a mid-race heart attack caused indignation in the Italian cycling


    community.

    Quoted message said:

    The scandal was hardly diffused by another verdict of "death by natural causes."

    A leading amateur prospect, Marco Rusconi had enjoyed a successful trial alongside Paolini in
    the Quick Step-Davitamon team at the end of last season, having decided to make a final bid to
    turn pro' after giving up


    his

    Quoted message said:

    job with the Italian electrical utility, ENEL. On Friday night he died in the arms of another
    leading Italian fledgling, his Ceramiche Pagoncelli team-mate, Paride Grillo.

    Grillo was said at the weekend to be shell-shocked by the incident.

    The directeur sportif of both Rusconi and Grillo, Alberto Cappelleti,


    stated

    Quoted message said:

    on Saturday: "I'm rocked with grief. Marco was a healthy and generous lad, who had shown a
    capacity for remarkable efforts when climbing. In two


    years

    Quoted message said:

    with us no heart deficiency had ever come to light. Moreover, he had been resting for the last
    month."

    There is nothing here to suggest use of drugs. The unfortunate truth is that, although rare,
    cardiac-related sudden death does occur in young individuals, both at rest and during exercise.
    Only if you could show that the rate of such events was statistically greater than expected would
    there be any reason for speculation.

    Andy Coggan

    However, One can not ignore the fact that steriod use (even relitively minimal) has been linked to
    abnormally high "natural" heart pathologies.

    I would also suggest that the only statistically signifigant study would be one that would compare
    athletes who are known to use steriods and those who are known to not have ever used them. This is
    of course pretty impossible.

    The bottom line is that both steriod use and EPO (and similiar) can lead to cardiac arrest for a
    myriad of reasons the recent rash of heart attacks amoung endurance athletes maybe be a simple
    probability cluster or it could be an indication of something, Either way lot's of young, otherwise
    healthy people are dying, I think further study would be appropriate and rejecting drug use out of
    hand is irresponsible. This is not to say that Andy isn't right, but it warrants some study, Maybe
    these are just "normal" heart abnormalities, then maybe to get a racing license you need to get a
    clean EKG from a doctor or somthing.

  19. Steven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The bottom line is that both steriod use and EPO (and similiar) can lead to cardiac arrest for a
    myriad of reasons the recent rash of heart attacks amoung endurance athletes maybe be a simple
    probability cluster or it could be an indication of something, Either way lot's of young,
    otherwise healthy people are dying,

    Three is "lots"? I guess you didn't read the information that Lafferty posted:

    "According to the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta, 100,000 young athletes die each year from
    all cardio-vascular disorders, including cardiomyopathy, as a result of participation in sports."

    Andy Coggan

  20. "Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    It's not? Seems to me that is *exactly* what you're speculating - in fact, you seem to think that
    not only are they drug-related, but that they are


    due

    Quoted message said:

    to some undetectable substance. (If that's not the case, then why did you title this tread what
    you did?)

    Nope. Given the history of cycling deaths since 1990, and the current use of non-detectable
    substances and/or detectable substances used in a manner not to be detected, any sudden deaths
    in young and apparently health cyclists need to be fully investigated. Given the recently
    detected use of a designer steroid in the US, the question begs as to whether or not there is a
    substance(s) being used that has the dead ones one step ahead of the detection process. That
    was apparently the case with Dutch cycling deaths during sleep a dozen+ years ago. It could
    very possibly be the same now, particularly if the dead cyclists did not have any underlying
    heart problem that went undetected prior to death. Perhaps the investigators will have these
    cyclist's blood tested for the presence of thc or any other designer drug that is "discovered"
    down the road.

    Quoted message said:


    How about we keep the prosecutors and investigating magistrates out of it until a medical examiner
    does their job?

    That's not how the system works. Prosecutors normally work hand in glove with medical examiners
    every day. Both bring their knowledge and expertise drawn from many sources. Often a prosecutor will
    go back to a medical examiner with additional information and ask for repeat and/or additonal
    testing/consideration/opinions. Medical examiners do not work in a vacume.

    If *they* come up with evidence of

    Quoted message said:

    drug use (which sudden cardiac-related death in a young person is not,


    even

    Quoted message said:

    if that person was a cyclist), then refer the matter to the judicial


    system

    Quoted message said:

    to see if any further action is warranted. (Just because a death is drug-related doesn't mean that
    there is somebody still living who deserves prosecution.)

    You raise several issues here. Sudden cardiac arrest might be the result of drug use that is
    detectable. That would lead to a finding of a non-natural cause of death. The
    prosecutor/investigating magistrate would then have to determine if the was crimnal liablity for the
    death and if so, who might be criminally responsible. All non-natural deaths, as determined by the
    medical examiner, go to the judicial system by referral to the prosecutor's office for
    investigation. That investigation may be carried out by police detectives assigned to a prosecutor's
    office, or the matter may be given to a police department for investigation. In some jurisdictions
    there may be a judicial inquest into the death. That is often used when the death involves someone
    killed by the police, but not always. Conversly, a prosecutor who comes upon information about a
    decedent whom the medical examiner has determined died of natural causes that would cast that
    determination in doubt (such as the decedent was a elite athlete in a sport rife with drug use and
    in which numerous other cyclist died as a probable result of illegal dru use), would ask the medical
    examiner for additional testing/opinions. A drug related death caused by an illegal substance or a
    legal substance improperly supplied or used will create criminal responsibility for someone who may
    or may not be found and/or prosecuted. Should the drug dealer be prosecuted for a heroin overdose
    death caused by the drugs the dealer sold? Should a doctor or trainer who suplies epo leading to a
    cyclists death be prosecuted? Different prosecutors may come to different answers depending upon a
    variety of factors. It's a bit more complex a picture/process than you've made it out to be. The
    real world is like that.

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