Black Toenails

rms said:

Sorry for the unpleasant subject, but I invariably get them in my once or
twice a year marathon run. I've tried wrapping the toes in medical tape
(useless) and was hoping for some permanent solution like hard plastic toe
caps or something. Any suggestions?

rms

properly fitting shoes?

Or are you experiencing foot swelling as result of not-quite-right fluid
/ electrolyte balance? That can sometimes throw off fit of people's shoes.

Dot

--
"Dream big and dare to fail." --- Norman Vaughan
world-famous adventurer who was with Byrd in Antarctica

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote

Quoted message said:

properly fitting shoes?

I second the motion. I haven't had a black toenail since I learned to give
a thumbs width of room in the toebox of my running shoes...probably been 25
years.

Same applies to blisters, although double layer thin socks, a bit of
vaseline, and making sure you've filed your callouses is also important.

I run a lot of black-toe inducing races with tons of downhill, including 50
mile trail races, with nary a blister.

The street shoe-fit and the running shoe-fit are totally different animals.

rms said:

Sorry for the unpleasant subject, but I invariably get them in my once or
twice a year marathon run. I've tried wrapping the toes in medical tape
(useless) and was hoping for some permanent solution like hard plastic toe
caps or something. Any suggestions?

rms

RMS,

Google "gontang" and "black toe" and you'll come up with some of my
thoughts on the reasons for black toe nails.

In health and on the run in Sydney,

Ozzie Gontang
Maintainer, rec.running FAQ
Mindful Running http://www.mindfulness.com

Quoted message said:

rms said:

Sorry for the unpleasant subject, but I invariably get them in my once or
twice a year marathon run. I've tried wrapping the toes in medical tape
(useless) and was hoping for some permanent solution like hard plastic toe
caps or something. Any suggestions?

rms

RMS,

Google "gontang" and "black toe" and you'll come up with some of my
thoughts on the reasons for black toe nails.

In health and on the run in Sydney,

Ozzie Gontang
Maintainer, rec.running FAQ
Mindful Running http://www.mindfulness.com

OR you could save yourself time, aggravation, and a lotta reading by
just buying a size larger shoe.

Quoted message said:

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

rms said:

Any suggestions?

Buying a half or full size larger shoe as most suggest is probably the
simplest remedy.

But as many of this group have seen in the "Running on the Sun"
documentary, it's also possible to avoid the problem by having your
toenails surgically removed. Another option to bear in mind.

Charlie Pendejo said:

But as many of this group have seen in the "Running on the Sun"
documentary, it's also possible to avoid the problem by having your
toenails surgically removed. Another option to bear in mind.

And here's what to do with them:
http://runtrails.blogspot.com/2007/03/making-your-own-toenail-necklace.html

Dot

--
"Dream big and dare to fail." --- Norman Vaughan
world-famous adventurer who was with Byrd in Antarctica

I'll give a dissenting opinion on the solution being merely the "half
size up" rule....all of my running shoes are 1/2 size larger than my
street shoes and I still will get black toenails on the old second
toe, each foot.

If I go another 1/2 size larger on the running shoes my feet will be
swimming in them...so for me, if/when I get the black toes I just deal
with it. And look at other possible causes and solutions, though for
years I haven't found one. And consider painting all of them black
just to match the two that are already black....

.....not really, but anyway...

Mike C

D Stumpus said:

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote

Quoted message said:

properly fitting shoes?

I second the motion. I haven't had a black toenail since I learned to give
a thumbs width of room in the toebox of my running shoes...probably been 25
years.

Same applies to blisters, although double layer thin socks, a bit of
vaseline, and making sure you've filed your callouses is also important.

I run a lot of black-toe inducing races with tons of downhill, including 50
mile trail races, with nary a blister.

The street shoe-fit and the running shoe-fit are totally different animals.

"Mike C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'll give a dissenting opinion on the solution being merely the "half
size up" rule....all of my running shoes are 1/2 size larger than my
street shoes and I still will get black toenails on the old second
toe, each foot.

If I go another 1/2 size larger on the running shoes my feet will be
swimming in them...so for me, if/when I get the black toes I just deal
with it. And look at other possible causes and solutions, though for
years I haven't found one. And consider painting all of them black
just to match the two that are already black....

....not really, but anyway...

Mike C

There is a toe cap product that helped me for a while. It looks like one of
those things seamstresses put on their finger and worked well.

Mike C said:

all of my running shoes are 1/2 size larger than my street
shoes and I still will get black toenails on the old second
toe, each foot.

If I go another 1/2 size larger on the running shoes my feet
will be swimming in them

My running shoes are a full size larger than my street shoes. Not
sure if that means I'm running in looser fitting shoes than most or
what, but it works for me.

Just providing another data point.

"Mike C" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I'll give a dissenting opinion on the solution being merely the "half
size up" rule....all of my running shoes are 1/2 size larger than my
street shoes and I still will get black toenails on the old second
toe, each foot.

1/2 a size is only 1/6" of an inch in American shoes -- not enough of a
difference to do much.

Looks like you have Morton's toe (I do too). I used to lose toenail #2 in
marathons before I achieved True Enlightenment. (Mortons means toe #2 is
the longest toe).

Quoted message said:

If I go another 1/2 size larger on the running shoes my feet will be
swimming in them...

Your #2 toenail is catching on the top of the shoe and/or jamming into the
toe. It's an mechanical problem that is solvable.

Have you actually run in looser fitting shoes? (with 1/2" gap between end
of longest toe and front of shoe). My trail racing shoes have lots of
room -- I can wiggle my toes without any impingement. Almost like wearing
sandals. Alternatively, if your foot is narrow, you could try a narrow and
longer shoe. In long races, the foot can swell and elongate a bit.

Also, do you file your toenails so they are very thin such there's a smooth
transition from skin to nail on top? (So that there's nothing to catch on).
If you have a touch of toenail fungus, that will make the nail thicker,
necessitating agressive grinding. Even with a longer shoe, I keep mine
filed thin.

Do you use vaseline on the problem toes?

Finally, have you tried Wright socks (thin double layer socks). The idea is
that the outer layer of sock slides a bit over the inner layer at friction
points, reducing friction on the foot (or toe).

But if you're determined to stay with your snug fit, a blue-black polish
might be the ticket :-)

I suppose I should experiment with another 1/2 size larger even...but
you're right, I do have Morton's and when I have tried on size 11
shoes (those being 1 full size larger than my street shoes), I feel
like I'm swimming in there, even with more "cushioned" socks.

Realizing of course as well that shoe sizes are not uniform across all
manufacturers...

My foot tends to run more wide than narrow, so I will try the vaseline
approach. I haven't filed the nails but I do keep them pretty short,
knowing that there are issues if they get any longer than they
should. And I like the sock idea as well.....so glad I checked into
the old r.r. stomping grounds for some good ideas....

Thanks!

Mike C

D Stumpus said:

"Mike C" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I'll give a dissenting opinion on the solution being merely the "half
size up" rule....all of my running shoes are 1/2 size larger than my
street shoes and I still will get black toenails on the old second
toe, each foot.

1/2 a size is only 1/6" of an inch in American shoes -- not enough of a
difference to do much.

Looks like you have Morton's toe (I do too). I used to lose toenail #2 in
marathons before I achieved True Enlightenment. (Mortons means toe #2 is
the longest toe).

Quoted message said:

If I go another 1/2 size larger on the running shoes my feet will be
swimming in them...

Your #2 toenail is catching on the top of the shoe and/or jamming into the
toe. It's an mechanical problem that is solvable.

Have you actually run in looser fitting shoes? (with 1/2" gap between end
of longest toe and front of shoe). My trail racing shoes have lots of
room -- I can wiggle my toes without any impingement. Almost like wearing
sandals. Alternatively, if your foot is narrow, you could try a narrow and
longer shoe. In long races, the foot can swell and elongate a bit.

Also, do you file your toenails so they are very thin such there's a smooth
transition from skin to nail on top? (So that there's nothing to catch on).
If you have a touch of toenail fungus, that will make the nail thicker,
necessitating agressive grinding. Even with a longer shoe, I keep mine
filed thin.

Do you use vaseline on the problem toes?

Finally, have you tried Wright socks (thin double layer socks). The idea is
that the outer layer of sock slides a bit over the inner layer at friction
points, reducing friction on the foot (or toe).

But if you're determined to stay with your snug fit, a blue-black polish
might be the ticket :-)

I believe I have seen that toe-cap deal advertised
somewhere...interesting. Seems like the extra, well, "extra" would be
annoying to the surrounding toes?

Mike C

Thomas said:

"Mike C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'll give a dissenting opinion on the solution being merely the "half
size up" rule....all of my running shoes are 1/2 size larger than my
street shoes and I still will get black toenails on the old second
toe, each foot.

Quoted message said:

If I go another 1/2 size larger on the running shoes my feet will be
swimming in them...so for me, if/when I get the black toes I just deal
with it. And look at other possible causes and solutions, though for
years I haven't found one. And consider painting all of them black
just to match the two that are already black....

Quoted message said:

....not really, but anyway...

Quoted message said:

Mike C

There is a toe cap product that helped me for a while. It looks like one of
those things seamstresses put on their finger and worked well.

"Mike C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I believe I have seen that toe-cap deal advertised
somewhere...interesting. Seems like the extra, well, "extra" would be
annoying to the surrounding toes?

Mike C

Mine wasn't but you need a good tight fit and a longer protector..