Spanish maps

On Thu, 24 May 2007 21:55:36 +0100, Paul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm planning to walk part of the Pyreneen High Level Route (HRP)
this summer. The Spanish 1:50000 maps for this area have very widely
spaced grid lines (I assume LAT/LONG). Fine, but how does one use a
compass? Would it be sensible to draw in an intermediate grid on which
to line up the compass with grid North?

You could do that. But beware, Spanish maps are not of the same
quality as UK maps. In fact, they're rubbish! If you're following a
path, then it stands a fair chance of being there on the ground (and
signposted). If you're going across country, the nice smooth contours
could be rolling hills, or steep crags...
In short, the maps are of no use for micro-navigation, and of limited
use for macro navigation.
If you're on part of the route for which French maps are available,
try to get hold of these instead.
Simon

--
Stop ID cards and the Database State
http://www.no2id.net/

Simon Caldwell said:

On Thu, 24 May 2007 21:55:36 +0100, Paul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm planning to walk part of the Pyreneen High Level Route (HRP)
this summer. The Spanish 1:50000 maps for this area have very widely
spaced grid lines (I assume LAT/LONG). Fine, but how does one use a
compass? Would it be sensible to draw in an intermediate grid on which
to line up the compass with grid North?

You could do that. But beware, Spanish maps are not of the same
quality as UK maps. In fact, they're rubbish! If you're following a
path, then it stands a fair chance of being there on the ground (and
signposted). If you're going across country, the nice smooth contours
could be rolling hills, or steep crags...
In short, the maps are of no use for micro-navigation, and of limited
use for macro navigation.
If you're on part of the route for which French maps are available,
try to get hold of these instead.
Simon

Thanks. I agree, they are rubbish. Unfortunately most of this section of
the walk is in Spain and the coverage of the French maps is not so good.
As a precaution, I'm attempting to plot the route on google earth so
that I can enter waypoints onto a GPS (not downloadable)Has anyone tried
this? are there better ways of plotting waypoints where mapping is this
poor?

Thanks again, Paul

On Thu, 24 May 2007 21:55:36 +0100, Paul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The Spanish 1:50000 maps for this area have very widely
spaced grid lines

and note the quality is not as good as OS.
--
Mike Reid
Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk"
email me at "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"

"Simon Caldwell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 24 May 2007 21:55:36 +0100, Paul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm planning to walk part of the Pyreneen High Level Route (HRP)
this summer. The Spanish 1:50000 maps for this area have very widely
spaced grid lines (I assume LAT/LONG). Fine, but how does one use a
compass? Would it be sensible to draw in an intermediate grid on which
to line up the compass with grid North?

You could do that. But beware, Spanish maps are not of the same
quality as UK maps. In fact, they're rubbish! If you're following a
path, then it stands a fair chance of being there on the ground (and
signposted). If you're going across country, the nice smooth contours
could be rolling hills, or steep crags...
In short, the maps are of no use for micro-navigation, and of limited
use for macro navigation.

I'd fully agree with this. They are normally drawn ok but you have to be
really, really careful with the added height element which can make some
routes appear easy, when in fact they are extremely tricky and closer to
climbing. You cant really use them as in England with a compass, except for
general direction. Having said that, the common paths and tracks are much
better marked and resourcesd than in UK and it will be quite commong to find
well-stocked and kitted-out mountain refuges which you wont get here.

In message <[email hidden]>, Paul
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

As a precaution, I'm attempting to plot the route on google earth so
that I can enter waypoints onto a GPS (not downloadable)Has anyone
tried this? are there better ways of plotting waypoints where mapping
is this poor?

I've tried it the other way round, ie putting a GPS track overlay onto
Google Earth.

You could try a screen grab from Google Earth, and then calibrate it and
mark waypoints in something like GPS Utility:

http://www.gpsu.co.uk/

Regards,
--
Neil Pugh

On Thu, 24 May 2007 21:55:36 +0100, Paul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm planning to walk part of the Pyreneen High Level Route (HRP)
this summer. The Spanish 1:50000 maps for this area have very widely
spaced grid lines (I assume LAT/LONG). Fine, but how does one use a
compass? Would it be sensible to draw in an intermediate grid on which
to line up the compass with grid North?

Others have commented, correctly, on the dodginess of many Spanish
maps. Editorial Alpina and www.icc.es (the Catalan mapping agency)
have a better record and are worth checking out, depending on which
bit(s) of the HRP you're looking at. In typically French fashion,
the French IGN maps, where they do cover the Spanish side of the
border, tend to pretend it's a foreign trackless waste and not worth
mapping properly.

Tell us what sections you're considering, and somebody (possibly
including me) will have some reliable waypoints and/or paper map
suggestions for the specific areas.
--
All the best
David Millen
Xativa, Valencia
www.fincacasablanca.com
please reply in group
if you have to email me, remove the obvious:
[email hidden]

David Millen said:

On Thu, 24 May 2007 21:55:36 +0100, Paul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm planning to walk part of the Pyreneen High Level Route (HRP)
this summer. The Spanish 1:50000 maps for this area have very widely
spaced grid lines (I assume LAT/LONG). Fine, but how does one use a
compass? Would it be sensible to draw in an intermediate grid on which
to line up the compass with grid North?

Others have commented, correctly, on the dodginess of many Spanish
maps. Editorial Alpina and www.icc.es (the Catalan mapping agency)
have a better record and are worth checking out, depending on which
bit(s) of the HRP you're looking at. In typically French fashion,
the French IGN maps, where they do cover the Spanish side of the
border, tend to pretend it's a foreign trackless waste and not worth
mapping properly.

Tell us what sections you're considering, and somebody (possibly
including me) will have some reliable waypoints and/or paper map
suggestions for the specific areas.

Many thanks for all the comments. We plan to walk from Portillon (South
of Bagneres de Luchon) Eastwards to Bolquere over about 3 weeks. Most of
this section is in Spain although the first day and last 3 or so are in
France. Early sections, mostly in France, were fine, as I was using the
1:25000 IGN maps (grid lines, GPS compatible etc.

Cheers, Paul

Paul said:

David Millen said:

On Thu, 24 May 2007 21:55:36 +0100, Paul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm planning to walk part of the Pyreneen High Level Route (HRP)
this summer. The Spanish 1:50000 maps for this area have very widely
spaced grid lines (I assume LAT/LONG). Fine, but how does one use a
compass? Would it be sensible to draw in an intermediate grid on
which to line up the compass with grid North?

Others have commented, correctly, on the dodginess of many Spanish
maps. Editorial Alpina and www.icc.es (the Catalan mapping agency)
have a better record and are worth checking out, depending on which
bit(s) of the HRP you're looking at. In typically French fashion,
the French IGN maps, where they do cover the Spanish side of the
border, tend to pretend it's a foreign trackless waste and not worth
mapping properly.

Tell us what sections you're considering, and somebody (possibly
including me) will have some reliable waypoints and/or paper map
suggestions for the specific areas.

Many thanks for all the comments. We plan to walk from Portillon (South
of Bagneres de Luchon) Eastwards to Bolquere over about 3 weeks. Most of
this section is in Spain although the first day and last 3 or so are in
France. Early sections, mostly in France, were fine, as I was using the
1:25000 IGN maps (grid lines, GPS compatible etc.

Cheers, Paul

oh, incidentally the maps I have are by the Insitut Cartografic de
Catalunya and they're still cr*p. Paul

"Paul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, I'm planning to walk part of the Pyreneen High Level Route (HRP) this
summer. The Spanish 1:50000 maps for this area have very widely spaced
grid lines (I assume LAT/LONG). Fine, but how does one use a compass?
Would it be sensible to draw in an intermediate grid on which to line up
the compass with grid North?

Thanks, Paul

Personally, in the Pyrenees I found it was not necessary to use a compass
for other than to get a rough idea where north is. In 10 years of visits
to the Pyrenees I have yet to see a Spanish person with a compass, although
I have seen a number of Brits quite confused as to where they are, holding a
compass and map in front of them.

Spanish maps are bad. Its not unusual to find some refuges are marked 300m
wrong on a map, in terms of altitude!

On the ground pay special atention to the number of lakes and their position
and shape. An altimeter is VERY useful because the lakes are always marked
correctly on maps in terms of altitude. Passes can be less reliable. Talk
to other people on the route.

Presonally I find the [censored] maps add a nice element of adventure. Its funny
too at times, like when you see a bunch of British hikers that have planned
eveything right down to the last detail, in terms of hours, minutes and
calories, only to find that maps in Spain are a work of fiction rather than
a science.

As well as a, altimeter I would recommend a gortex biviv bag and torch....

Have fun.

On Fri, 25 May 2007 20:52:51 +0100, Paul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Paul said:

David Millen said:

On Thu, 24 May 2007 21:55:36 +0100, Paul <[email hidden]>
wrote:

> Hi, I'm planning to walk part of the Pyreneen High Level Route (HRP)
> this summer. The Spanish 1:50000 maps for this area have very widely
> spaced grid lines (I assume LAT/LONG). Fine, but how does one use a
> compass? Would it be sensible to draw in an intermediate grid on
> which to line up the compass with grid North?
>

Others have commented, correctly, on the dodginess of many Spanish
maps. Editorial Alpina and www.icc.es (the Catalan mapping agency)
have a better record and are worth checking out, depending on which
bit(s) of the HRP you're looking at. In typically French fashion,
the French IGN maps, where they do cover the Spanish side of the
border, tend to pretend it's a foreign trackless waste and not worth
mapping properly.

Tell us what sections you're considering, and somebody (possibly
including me) will have some reliable waypoints and/or paper map
suggestions for the specific areas.

Many thanks for all the comments. We plan to walk from Portillon (South
of Bagneres de Luchon) Eastwards to Bolquere over about 3 weeks. Most of
this section is in Spain although the first day and last 3 or so are in
France. Early sections, mostly in France, were fine, as I was using the
1:25000 IGN maps (grid lines, GPS compatible etc.

Cheers, Paul

oh, incidentally the maps I have are by the Insitut Cartografic de
Catalunya and they're still cr*p. Paul

Hmmm. I've used the ICC Pallars Sobira and the Aigues Tortes sheets
over some years and found them at least to be accurate on the ground.
The Alpina Pica d'Estats - Mont Roig at 1:25000 is spot on, and clear
as well. I have a whole bunch of waypoints on these three maps,
which you're welcome to if you want - e me off-group. Some are HRP,
some are GR11, some are Heaven's Gate (www.laportadelcel.com).

If you're between Alos d'Isil and Tavascan around 15-20 June we may
bump into each other.

--
All the best
David Millen
Xativa, Valencia
www.fincacasablanca.com
to email me, remove 'the_obvious':
[email hidden]

mikeN said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks, Paul

Personally, in the Pyrenees I found it was not necessary to use a compass
for other than to get a rough idea where north is. In 10 years of visits
to the Pyrenees I have yet to see a Spanish person with a compass, although
I have seen a number of Brits quite confused as to where they are, holding a
compass and map in front of them.

Spanish maps are bad. Its not unusual to find some refuges are marked 300m
wrong on a map, in terms of altitude!

On the ground pay special atention to the number of lakes and their position
and shape. An altimeter is VERY useful because the lakes are always marked
correctly on maps in terms of altitude. Passes can be less reliable. Talk
to other people on the route.

Presonally I find the [censored] maps add a nice element of adventure. Its funny
too at times, like when you see a bunch of British hikers that have planned
eveything right down to the last detail, in terms of hours, minutes and
calories, only to find that maps in Spain are a work of fiction rather than
a science.

As well as a, altimeter I would recommend a gortex biviv bag and torch....

Have fun.

Thanks very much for all your helpful replies. I have just discovered
that it is possible to import saved google earth waypoints into GPSU -
fantastic!

Cheers

Paul