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Cadence question

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
23 April 2007
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27 April 2007
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shinypenny
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  1. I have no idea what my cadence is, because I am too uncoordinated to
    attempt to count it while running, and also I haven't owned a watch
    for nearly 15 years now (Type A person in recovery!).

    However, yesterday when I was running, a tall guy passed me going much
    faster than me. But I noticed that my cadence was matching his
    perfectly. (I was running to the beat of a B52's song, if that helps
    any).

    Was he only going faster than me simply because his stride was longer?
    Or is there more to it than that? Because there are a lot of short,
    fast runners out there... I can't be the only short runner....

    For reference, my last 5K was around 33 minutes. I do think lately
    I've made some improvements and have gotten faster (doesn't hurt that
    I've dropped 5 lbs since that 5K), but it's hard to tell just how much
    faster because my ipod thingie isn't calibrated correctly.

    jen

  2. "I was running to the beat of a B-52's song, if that helps any."

    It would only help if we were trying to decide who had the weakest taste
    in music.

  3. (Miss Anne Thrope) said:

    "I was running to the beat of a B-52's song, if that helps any."

    It would only help if we were trying to decide who had the weakest taste
    in music.

    Aw, c'mon! Planet Claire is a classic!

    jen

  4. shinypenny said:

    I have no idea what my cadence is, because I am too uncoordinated to
    attempt to count it while running, and also I haven't owned a watch
    for nearly 15 years now (Type A person in recovery!).

    However, yesterday when I was running, a tall guy passed me going much
    faster than me. But I noticed that my cadence was matching his
    perfectly. (I was running to the beat of a B52's song, if that helps
    any).

    You can download podcasts for runners that are collections of music
    with specific beat frequencies, like 180 bpm, for you to run to to
    train your cadence. I don't listen to music while I run so I can vouch
    for neither the concept nor the podcasts but it's worth checking into
    (I think at least some are available for free. Google something like
    "running podcast"😉. Otherwise, it's going to be difficult for you to
    measure how many steps you take per minute without a watch to tell you
    when a minute's gone by.

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,

    shinypenny said:

    I have no idea what my cadence is, because I am too uncoordinated to
    attempt to count it while running, and also I haven't owned a watch
    for nearly 15 years now (Type A person in recovery!).

    However, yesterday when I was running, a tall guy passed me going much
    faster than me. But I noticed that my cadence was matching his
    perfectly. (I was running to the beat of a B52's song, if that helps
    any).

    Was he only going faster than me simply because his stride was longer?

    Yes. Nothing exotic available. Speed = stride length * stride rate.

    I've been on the other side of this, or even more so. I was running
    along at a fair pace, and had a person about 13 inches shorter running
    along with me -- matching both stride length and stride rate.

    Quoted message said:

    Or is there more to it than that? Because there are a lot of short,
    fast runners out there... I can't be the only short runner....

    Well, you're a little shorter than Gebrselassie. But given his
    world records, short probably isn't exclusionary. (He's about 5'3",
    iirc.)

    Quoted message said:

    For reference, my last 5K was around 33 minutes. I do think lately
    I've made some improvements and have gotten faster (doesn't hurt that
    I've dropped 5 lbs since that 5K), but it's hard to tell just how much
    faster because my ipod thingie isn't calibrated correctly.

    You'll find out at your next race. No worries.

    --
    Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
    Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
    evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
    would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

  6. "tfactor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    You can download podcasts for runners that are collections of music with
    specific beat frequencies, like 180 bpm, for you to run to to train your
    cadence.

    You can also d/l a metronome mp3 with various bpm on it.
    No music, just the beat -- tick-tick-tick......
    bj

  7. shinypenny said:

    Was he only going faster than me simply because his stride was longer?

    Yes. As Bob G said, there's *only* stride length and frequency, here
    in our Newtonian world.

    Quoted message said:

    there are a lot of short, fast runners out there...

    True. And short & slow, tall & fast, tall & slow.

    Unlike (I presume) walking, stride length in running is not (very? at
    all?) dependent on leg length.

    The big difference: walking, you've got both feet on the ground
    simultaneously, so your leg length limits how far between steps.
    Running, you're got both feet airborne, so in a sense you're leaping
    about three times a second. Things like effort, strength, weight, and
    form will determine how far each leap takes you, but not (directly,
    anyway) your leg length.

    Somewhat tangential and not aimed at you, jen: though we speak of
    stride length, IMO thinking about stride length directly, as a
    prescriptive thing, could be detrimental. It's good to consciously
    check up on cadence, and goose it in the right direction as called
    for. But trying to "take bigger strides" seems like a recipe for
    running-form disaster. If one instead simply runs faster at the same
    cadence, the stride lengthens to accomplish this.

    It may be beneficial to work on *good form* (1) as one means to go
    further with each step, but to me that's a different way of framing it
    than taking longer strides. But again, anything that makes you run
    faster - i.e. any effective training - is improving your stride length
    (2). So ultimately, to develop longer strides, do all that training
    stuff: run more and farther, run intervals and fartleks and shorter
    faster speedwork and tempo runs and races, do weights and cross
    training and plyometrics, tequila shots (3), et cetera... and don't
    get injured or overtrained in the process!

    Quoted message said:

    For reference, my last 5K was around 33 minutes. I do think lately
    I've made some improvements and have gotten faster (doesn't hurt that
    I've dropped 5 lbs since that 5K), but it's hard to tell just how much
    faster because my ipod thingie isn't calibrated correctly.

    It's also hard to tell just how much based on your daily runs, unless
    you always race at your training pace.

    Miscalibrated ipod thingy, no stopwatch, failure to precisely count
    your cadence: I hope you weren't planning to apply for membership in
    American OCD Runners any time soon! :-p

    (1) and there's of course different schools of thought and techniques
    for working on form... some believe about all you might want to do is
    work on strength and flexibility, and form will follow; others make a
    career out of teaching form

    (2) unless it's exclusively improving your cadence - but this is
    probably doesn't happen much without one's knowledge and intent

    (3) advanced ultra technique

  8. Charlie Pendejo said:

    The big difference: walking, you've got both feet on the ground
    simultaneously, so your leg length limits how far between steps.
    Running, you're got both feet airborne, so in a sense you're leaping
    about three times a second. Things like effort, strength, weight, and
    form will determine how far each leap takes you, but not (directly,
    anyway) your leg length.

    Thanks so much for this explanation. That is exactly what I was trying
    to get at! It seems to me that other runners spend more time airborne
    than I do. I would phrase this "power" more than "stride"... but
    that's just me. Stride seems to imply it's solely a factor of leg
    length. And I like to hold to this idea, because it means there's
    still hope for me... hee hee.

    Quoted message said:

    Somewhat tangential and not aimed at you, jen: though we speak of
    stride length, IMO thinking about stride length directly, as a
    prescriptive thing, could be detrimental. It's good to consciously
    check up on cadence, and goose it in the right direction as called
    for. But trying to "take bigger strides" seems like a recipe for
    running-form disaster.

    Agreed.

    Quoted message said:

    If one instead simply runs faster at the same
    cadence, the stride lengthens to accomplish this.

    It may be beneficial to work on *good form* (1) as one means to go
    further with each step, but to me that's a different way of framing it
    than taking longer strides. But again, anything that makes you run
    faster - i.e. any effective training - is improving your stride length
    (2). So ultimately, to develop longer strides, do all that training
    stuff: run more and farther, run intervals and fartleks and shorter
    faster speedwork and tempo runs and races, do weights and cross
    training and plyometrics, tequila shots (3), et cetera... and don't
    get injured or overtrained in the process!

    Quoted message said:

    For reference, my last 5K was around 33 minutes. I do think lately
    I've made some improvements and have gotten faster (doesn't hurt that
    I've dropped 5 lbs since that 5K), but it's hard to tell just how much
    faster because my ipod thingie isn't calibrated correctly.

    It's also hard to tell just how much based on your daily runs, unless
    you always race at your training pace.

    Miscalibrated ipod thingy, no stopwatch, failure to precisely count
    your cadence: I hope you weren't planning to apply for membership in
    American OCD Runners any time soon! :-p

    :-)

    Nope, I was just curious, that's all. I am happy doing what I'm doing
    for now, which is basically just fitness running 30 min, 3x's a week,
    without stressing over how fast or how far I'm going, and just
    enjoying it (I'm also walking about an hour or so on alternating
    days). Everytime I try to add additional time or mileage, I run into
    this darn hip problem again. So for now, I'm keeping it low key...
    probably for the rest of the year. Then we'll see.

    Just every now and then I get jealous of faster runners, and the
    competitive me kicks in!

    jen

  9. shinypenny said:

    I have no idea what my cadence is, because I am too uncoordinated to
    attempt to count it while running

    just in case you ever do want to count it and haven't heard this trick
    yet, i found (read it in a book) that it's easier to count my arm swing
    than my leg swing (supposedly they are "tied" together, at least for me
    it seems to be true.) i could never count my actual stride for some
    reason, too confusing!

    h (running dumbass..)

  10. h squared said:
    shinypenny said:

    I have no idea what my cadence is, because I am too uncoordinated to
    attempt to count it while running

    just in case you ever do want to count it and haven't heard this trick
    yet, i found (read it in a book) that it's easier to count my arm swing
    than my leg swing (supposedly they are "tied" together, at least for me
    it seems to be true.) i could never count my actual stride for some
    reason, too confusing!

    h (running dumbass..)

    Try just counting the cadence on one foot, then double it.

    Eric

  11. bluezfolk said:
    h squared said:
    shinypenny said:

    I have no idea what my cadence is, because I am too uncoordinated to
    attempt to count it while running

    just in case you ever do want to count it and haven't heard this trick
    yet, i found (read it in a book) that it's easier to count my arm swing
    than my leg swing (supposedly they are "tied" together, at least for me
    it seems to be true.) i could never count my actual stride for some
    reason, too confusing!

    h (running dumbass..)

    Try just counting the cadence on one foot, then double it.

    Eric

    i tried but i can't do it 🙂 for some reason it's easier (as in
    possible) for me to count my arm swing- i know it doesn't make sense, it
    just is. your method will work for anyone who isn't a running dumbass,
    i'm sure.

    heather

  12. hal said:
    bluezfolk said:

    Try just counting the cadence on one foot, then double it.

    i tried but i can't do it 🙂 for some reason it's easier (as in
    possible) for me to count my arm swing- i know it doesn't make sense, it
    just is. your method will work for anyone who isn't a running dumbass,
    i'm sure.

    I count footsteps, but seem unable to count them any way other than
    "ONE two three TWO two three THREE two three..." Not sure if that
    makes me a dumbass, a smartass, a fatass, or some kind of weird
    waltzass; but it's what works for me.

  13. "h squared" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    | i tried but i can't do it 🙂 for some reason it's easier (as in
    | possible) for me to count my arm swing- i know it doesn't make sense, it
    | just is. your method will work for anyone who isn't a running dumbass,
    | i'm sure.
    |
    | heather

    Same here, haven't bothered to ever count and I know I can't.
    I count breaths, when I am bored. 8-)
    Your arm swing technique would work for me if arms and legs are in synch.

  14. Charlie Pendejo said:

    . . . "weird waltzass" . . .

    bwaaahahahaha :-) I like that one!

    Now for some reason this is going through my head [I've always thought
    of "4/5 time" as a kind of avant-garde musical notation] --

    "Four or five times,
    Four or five times,
    There is delight,
    To doing things right,
    Four or five times,
    Four or five times!"
    ( http://www.heptune.com/lyrics/fourorfi.html )

    2/2 time, 3/4 time, 4/5 time, whatever . . .
    How is it you do these things to what little brain I have left?
    --
    Daniel ( [email hidden] )

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  15. "shinypenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I have no idea what my cadence is, because I am too uncoordinated to
    attempt to count it while running, and also I haven't owned a watch
    for nearly 15 years now (Type A person in recovery!).

    However, yesterday when I was running, a tall guy passed me going much
    faster than me. But I noticed that my cadence was matching his
    perfectly. (I was running to the beat of a B52's song, if that helps
    any).

    Was he only going faster than me simply because his stride was longer?
    Or is there more to it than that? Because there are a lot of short,
    fast runners out there... I can't be the only short runner....

    For reference, my last 5K was around 33 minutes. I do think lately
    I've made some improvements and have gotten faster (doesn't hurt that
    I've dropped 5 lbs since that 5K), but it's hard to tell just how much
    faster because my ipod thingie isn't calibrated correctly.

    jen

    I don't have an answer for you, but I'm short (5'3"😉 and I've had alot of
    people tell me that my cadence is super fast. My stride length must be
    pretty short, because I can't keep up with any of them, and their cadence is
    slower than mine. But I am hesitant to try and lengthen my stride.
    Whenever I try to change something, I wind up feeling some sort of pain at
    the end. It's my own hope that as I continue to run, I'll just naturally
    get faster.

    your last 5k pace was the same as my last 5k pace...;-)

  16. determined said:

    your last 5k pace was the same as my last 5k pace...;-)-

    Yes, I know. :-)

    But I'm older than you, started far more out of shape than you, and
    not doing anywhere near your mileage right now. I'm only averaging
    about 7.5 miles per week running; on alternate days I walk, probably
    another 10 miles a week walking? Every time I try to push my running
    mileage over about 8 or 9 miles, even if I'm really careful, I seem to
    have a return of the hip pains and aches. So for now I'm going to just
    stay here for awhile. I have been making a better effort to seek out
    flat surfaces... I think my body just doesn't like the hills around my
    house, esp because the hills are on roads which are cambered (even the
    sidewalk is cambered). Forget alternating and running on the wrong
    side: good way to have a cell-phone using SUV or a bus run you over!!

    Grumble grumble...

    At any rate, if it's encouraging to you, about 10 or so years ago, my
    personal best 5K was around 23-24 minutes. And i did once run a 10-
    miler but can't remember what my time was... I seem to recall I
    averaged 10 minute miles or something like that. I am hopeful that
    maybe with a solid base I can get back to that sort of running some
    day. I'm not pushing it too terribly hard, because mostly all I want
    is to be able to be consistent and running when I'm old and gray. I
    don't want to injure myself and sideline myself again for years. :-(

    jen

  17. bluezfolk said:
    h squared said:
    shinypenny said:

    I have no idea what my cadence is, because I am too uncoordinated to
    attempt to count it while running

    Quoted message said:

    just in case you ever do want to count it and haven't heard this trick
    yet, i found (read it in a book) that it's easier to count my arm swing
    than my leg swing (supposedly they are "tied" together, at least for me
    it seems to be true.) i could never count my actual stride for some
    reason, too confusing!

    Quoted message said:

    h (running dumbass..)

    Try just counting the cadence on one foot, then double it.

    Just to make sure I did this right: I counted arm swings for a minute
    - every time my left arm swung up, I counted it. Then I doubled that
    number: 83* 2 = 166.... ?

    jen

  18. shinypenny said:

    Just to make sure I did this right: I counted arm swings for a minute
    - every time my left arm swung up, I counted it. Then I doubled that
    number: 83* 2 = 166.... ?

    No. You need to use your right arm.

    Just kidding,
    --
    Elflord

  19. "shinypenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    determined said:

    your last 5k pace was the same as my last 5k pace...;-)-

    Yes, I know. :-)

    But I'm older than you, started far more out of shape than you, and
    not doing anywhere near your mileage right now. I'm only averaging
    about 7.5 miles per week running; on alternate days I walk, probably
    another 10 miles a week walking? Every time I try to push my running
    mileage over about 8 or 9 miles, even if I'm really careful, I seem to
    have a return of the hip pains and aches.

    Maybe a visit to a sports physiotherapist to determine any postural problems
    would help?

  20. peter-potato said:
    Quoted message said:

    But I'm older than you, started far more out of shape than you, and
    not doing anywhere near your mileage right now. I'm only averaging
    about 7.5 miles per week running; on alternate days I walk, probably
    another 10 miles a week walking? Every time I try to push my running
    mileage over about 8 or 9 miles, even if I'm really careful, I seem to
    have a return of the hip pains and aches.

    Maybe a visit to a sports physiotherapist to determine any postural problems
    would help?

    Even though prior visits have led to nowhere, I'm still not ruling out
    that possibility. But for now, I suspect the issue most recently had
    more to do with too much mileage on cambered, hilly roads, than
    anything else. I have recently made an effort to drive to a flat trail
    and be consistent running there each and every time. It's making a big
    difference.

    jen

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