Running outside or treadmill

<shareyourknowledge> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Why is it that i can run about 30 minutes straight on the treadmill,
but when i run outside, i get winded within a few minutes? I try to
replicate on the treadmill my outside run as far as speed and incline.
Could it be the hard pavement which can expend more energy? I like
running outside but i need to run at school in my fitness class in
order to get credit.

The treadmill does at least some of the work for you. As the belt moves
back, it carries your foot with it. The street does not.

There are ways to make the treadmill closer to a street run, the most common
I've read here involves setting the TM at a small incline.

Have fun,
Dan

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why is it that i can run about 30 minutes straight on the treadmill,
but when i run outside, i get winded within a few minutes? I try to
replicate on the treadmill my outside run as far as speed and incline.
Could it be the hard pavement which can expend more energy? I like
running outside but i need to run at school in my fitness class in
order to get credit.

Partly I think for me anyways, on a treadmill I know exactly how fast I'm
going, but I tend to run much faster than I think I am on pavement. It
feels slow to me, but in actuality, I'm running faster than I normally do.
But there's just no comparison to propelling yourself forward without the
momentum of the belt to keep you going.

determined said:

But there's just no comparison to propelling yourself forward without the
momentum of the belt to keep you going.

The momentum of the belt might help psychologically, but it does not make
any difference to the physics of it. The only substantial difference is that
the two frames of reference differ by a constant velocity. Forces are
proportional to accelerations, so they are not affected by a constant velocity
change of reference frame.

Cheers,
--
Elflord

Quoted message said:

Why is it that i can run about 30 minutes straight on the treadmill,
but when i run outside, i get winded within a few minutes? I try to
replicate on the treadmill my outside run as far as speed and incline.
Could it be the hard pavement which can expend more energy? I like
running outside but i need to run at school in my fitness class in
order to get credit.

Am I missing something? Why can't you run outside for your fitness class
- laps around an athletic field work ok if they want to monitor you.

When running, just concentrate on running at conversational effort. That
should give you enough warning to slow down before you get winded.

Dot

--
"The goal is training and adaptation, not destruction and injury."
- John Hardy
http://www.mountainrunning.coolrunning.com.au/misc/training.shtml

Elflord said:

The momentum of the belt might help psychologically, but it does not make
any difference to the physics of it.

how about air resistance? Running on a treadmill is pretty much 0 air
resistance since your body is not moving relative to the air in the
room.

Quoted message said:

Why is it that i can run about 30 minutes straight on the treadmill,
but when i run outside, i get winded within a few minutes? I try to
replicate on the treadmill my outside run as far as speed and incline.
Could it be the hard pavement which can expend more energy? I like
running outside but i need to run at school in my fitness class in
order to get credit.

As a rough scale we (over here in Denmark) "say" that going on a TM from the
streets you will gain ~1km/hour in speed on the same effort.

So if you run just on the edge off what you are capable off on the TM and
then go out in the real world trying to run as fast you will get the
hammer!! Slow down and you will be fine..

martin

Bucky said:

Elflord said:

The momentum of the belt might help psychologically, but it does not make
any difference to the physics of it.

how about air resistance? Running on a treadmill is pretty much 0 air
resistance since your body is not moving relative to the air in the
room.

Well, yeah. Air movement is the only difference.

That one cuts both ways -- you will overheat really quickly at room temperature
with no airflow. I don't find that it helps at all. I find myself setting the
treadmill on very slow speeds (8:30/mile -- my 5k race pace is about 5:30) to
avoid getting drenched in sweat.

Cheers,
--
Elflord

email hidden said:

Why is it that i can run about 30 minutes straight on the treadmill,
but when i run outside, i get winded within a few minutes? I try to
replicate on the treadmill my outside run as far as speed and incline.
Could it be the hard pavement which can expend more energy? I like
running outside but i need to run at school in my fitness class in
order to get credit.

I have the opposite problem, 30 minutes on the tredmil is pure
torture. Outside 30 minutes is just a warmup.

Eric

Quoted message said:

Why is it that i can run about 30 minutes straight on the treadmill,
but when i run outside, i get winded within a few minutes? I try to
replicate on the treadmill my outside run as far as speed and incline.
Could it be the hard pavement which can expend more energy? I like

Are you going at the same speed on both ?

I suspect you're running too fast outside.

Quoted message said:

running outside but i need to run at school in my fitness class in
order to get credit.

--
Elflord

Daniel-San said:

<shareyourknowledge> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Why is it that i can run about 30 minutes straight on the treadmill,
but when i run outside, i get winded within a few minutes? I try to
replicate on the treadmill my outside run as far as speed and incline.
Could it be the hard pavement which can expend more energy? I like
running outside but i need to run at school in my fitness class in
order to get credit.

The treadmill does at least some of the work for you. As the belt moves
back, it carries your foot with it. The street does not.

Sure it does. In your frame of reference, the street also "moves back",
and also "carries your foot with it".

If you like, try running from East to West then West to East, and see
if you can exploit the fact that the rotation of the earth "carries your foot
with it" to run a better 5k time.

Perhaps that's why records insist on loop (or near-loop) courses (-;

Cheers,
--
Elflord

Quoted message said:

Why is it that i can run about 30 minutes straight on the treadmill, but
when i run outside, i get winded within a few minutes? I try to
replicate on the treadmill my outside run as far as speed and incline.
Could it be the hard pavement which can expend more energy? I like running
outside but i need to run at school in my fitness class in order to get
credit.

You're not actually doing anything to propel yourself forward on a
treadmill. You're just moving your legs into position to maintain a
so-called running stride on the machine in order to match the speed of
the belt. When you get your hamster butt off the wheel and are pushing
yourself forward on the ground outside, you're seeing how much more work
it is to actually run.

mr.b said:

Quoted message said:

Why is it that i can run about 30 minutes straight on the treadmill, but
when i run outside, i get winded within a few minutes? I try to
replicate on the treadmill my outside run as far as speed and incline.
Could it be the hard pavement which can expend more energy? I like running
outside but i need to run at school in my fitness class in order to get
credit.

You're not actually doing anything to propel yourself forward on a
treadmill.

Shut up, idiot

--
Elflord

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:34:27 +0000, the esteemed Elflord, a legend in his

own mind said:

Shut up, idiot

ffwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

*plonk*

mr.b said:

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:34:27 +0000, the esteemed Elflord, a legend in his

own mind said:

Shut up, idiot

ffwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

*plonk*

Instead of being so resolute in your ignorance, perhaps you would do well to
actually know something about this before putting your ignorance on exhibition

Here, read this.

http://tinyurl.com/2dkjuo

--
Elflord

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Why is it that i can run about 30 minutes straight on the treadmill,
but when i run outside, i get winded within a few minutes? I try to
replicate on the treadmill my outside run as far as speed and incline.
Could it be the hard pavement which can expend more energy? I like
running outside but i need to run at school in my fitness class in
order to get credit.

If you're running properly on the treadmill, and have it set to
1-1.5% incline (vs. flat outside), then the energy requirements are
about the same between 'mill and road.

But ...
The lack of wind (per Donovan's comment) means you don't cool as
effectively on the 'mill.

Very likely, you're running faster on the road than the 'mill.

Very likely, you're not running properly on the treadmill.

The last two would lead towards your results. For the pace control,
find someone who can predictably jog on the road the same pace
that you do on the treadmill, and run with him. For the proper running
on the treadmill, do not let the belt carry your foot back; be
running such that your foot is never being pushed or pulled by
the belt. It's easy to fall in to bad habits about this if you're
mostly running on the treadmill.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

Robert Grumbine said:

The last two would lead towards your results. For the pace control,
find someone who can predictably jog on the road the same pace
that you do on the treadmill, and run with him. For the proper running
on the treadmill, do not let the belt carry your foot back; be
running such that your foot is never being pushed or pulled by
the belt.

This is just the equivalent of "braking" when running on the road (the road
abruptly "grabs" the runners foot and "carries" it back). But why would anyone
brake any more on the treadmill ? And why would doing that make a treadmill run
any faster ?

Cheers,
--
Elflord

Elflord said:

This is just the equivalent of "braking"

Is this "overstriding"?

Quoted message said:

when running on the road (the road
abruptly "grabs" the runners foot and "carries" it back).

I'm having problems with the "carrying" associated with "back" when you
talk about the Earth, except during a landslide maybe - or if you're being
clever about the Earth's rotation ;-)

Quoted message said:

But why would anyone
brake any more on the treadmill ? And why would doing that make a treadmill run
any faster ?

I suppose the idea is that the road is not being power-driven backwards by
a 2cv motor (Google for it*). When you hit the belt with your heel too far
forwards from the center of gravity, the mill may be able to annul some of
the usual effects. ie the braking between impact and "Top-Dead-Center"(**)
of overstriding?

Dunno if it has the slightest reality (or measurable effect) cos my logic
has been so often proven to be corn pone (sp?) so I don't fancy my chances
arguing the toss. I prefer "shp" to measure power anyway***

*OK, it's "cheval vapeur" = "an ultra-clever formula for charging taxes on
cars in France, vaguely based on horsepower". I suspect it to be something
from the Occupation and the German Pferedstärcke (or an unfortunate
mis-spelling of Finnish hevosvoima (hv), which comes to the same thing
(sorry anders:->😉

** perfect impact point wrt center of gravity

*** It sounds just so dang horny : "Shaft horsepower (shp)"

steve common said:

I suppose the idea is that the road is not being power-driven backwards by
a 2cv motor (Google for it*). When you hit the belt with your heel too far
forwards from the center of gravity, the mill may be able to annul some of
the usual effects.

How so ? The only potential difference I see here is that maybe the treadmill
has a little bit of "give", in that the belt may flex a little, whereas hard
ground will not (but soft ground might!)

I must admit, it looks to me like just another instance of the "you're not
*really* moving when you're on the treadmill" fallacy.

Cheers,
--
Elflord

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:11:26 +0000, Elf wrote:

<snip>

morph away you arrogant worm...there's lots of room in my bozo-bin