Down Fall of Low Carb

2Phat said:

A long time ago I thought having low carb products in mass was a good idea.
I thought it would make low carb easier. I thought low carb on the go would
be easier. I thought cooking with low carb products would be easier.

And having many of these products available does make LC easier for
people who are really serious about doing it and are going to take the
time to read a book and figure out how to do it right. Products
like Hood LC milk, Heinz Ketchup, Mt Olive Sweet Pickles, LC
Tortillas, even LC shakes for a quick occasional meal, make it easier
for me. I think it's silly to attribute the bursting of the LC
bubble to LC products. It's well known that the vast majority of
people can't follow any diet. A lot jumped on LC due to all the
media attention it was getting in the early part of the decade.
Suddenly it became the "in" thing to try as a quick and easy
solution. Most figured they could do LC for a month or two, drop 20
lbs and then go back to their old ways. They would have failed with
or without the products.

Quoted message said:

What I've learned is low carb products in mass really hurts the low carb
dieter because it takes away the basic principal of low carb. Yes some
product development has been great for diabetics as they have much better
choices in foods that won't raise BSL's, and some other products are
excellent as they do not interfere with weight lose, but for the most part
the snacks, legal treats, pre made shakes, breads, etc., have added to low
carb being more of a fad then a life style change. The products are more
for maintenance but fool the dieter into thinking it's a part of the diet
phase.

I've come to realize low carb is at it's best when you are eating real foods
for the weight lose phase and maybe a few 'products' when your in long term
maintenance and incorporating the life style with your tastes. You still
have to be careful.

The marketing plan is, get a diet, it become popular people are losing
weight, get products, people stop losing weight and start struggling with
the diet.

But low carb books do talk about abstaining from sugars and certain cards
and such. Atkins himself didn't even start discounting 'sugar alcohol's and
fiber until he started making products. They do not talk about having a low
carb product here and there. And I am referring to pre mass produced
products low carb books as I really don't know what changes any low carb
books made once the products took hold.

What I'm saying is the purity of low carb is gone, and pickles and ketchup
were not apart of that early purity, which is why it's harder to really do
low carb. Much harder now then it was before the mass production of
products.

Yes, good for maintenance but not good for weight reduction.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

2Phat said:

A long time ago I thought having low carb products in mass was a good
idea.
I thought it would make low carb easier. I thought low carb on the go
would
be easier. I thought cooking with low carb products would be easier.

And having many of these products available does make LC easier for
people who are really serious about doing it and are going to take the
time to read a book and figure out how to do it right. Products
like Hood LC milk, Heinz Ketchup, Mt Olive Sweet Pickles, LC
Tortillas, even LC shakes for a quick occasional meal, make it easier
for me. I think it's silly to attribute the bursting of the LC
bubble to LC products. It's well known that the vast majority of
people can't follow any diet. A lot jumped on LC due to all the
media attention it was getting in the early part of the decade.
Suddenly it became the "in" thing to try as a quick and easy
solution. Most figured they could do LC for a month or two, drop 20
lbs and then go back to their old ways. They would have failed with
or without the products.

Quoted message said:

What I've learned is low carb products in mass really hurts the low carb
dieter because it takes away the basic principal of low carb. Yes some
product development has been great for diabetics as they have much better
choices in foods that won't raise BSL's, and some other products are
excellent as they do not interfere with weight lose, but for the most
part
the snacks, legal treats, pre made shakes, breads, etc., have added to
low
carb being more of a fad then a life style change. The products are more
for maintenance but fool the dieter into thinking it's a part of the diet
phase.

I've come to realize low carb is at it's best when you are eating real
foods
for the weight lose phase and maybe a few 'products' when your in long
term
maintenance and incorporating the life style with your tastes. You still
have to be careful.

The marketing plan is, get a diet, it become popular people are losing
weight, get products, people stop losing weight and start struggling with
the diet.

Quoted post said:

I think it's silly to attribute the bursting of the LC bubble to LC
products. It's well known that the vast majority of people can't
follow any diet. A lot jumped on LC due to all the media attention
it was getting in the early part of the decade. Suddenly it became
the "in" thing to try as a quick and easy solution. Most figured
they could do LC for a month or two, drop 20 lbs and then go back to
their old ways. They would have failed with or without the
products.

True. I've also heard some version of this several times: "Oh, you're
doing the low-carb/Atkins thing? My friend did that last year. She
lost a lot of weight at first, but she just couldn't handle all that
meat all the time."

Or even worse, you get people who say they tried it and it didn't
work, and then it turns out they thought rice was low-carb. Or they
just ate anything from the store that had an LC sticker on it, because
that's what they got used to with low-fat eating. They just went from
eating a box of low-fat cookies to eating a box of low-carb ice cream.

Many people who tried low-carb as a fad just skimmed through one of
the books for the lists of foods, or never read a book at all and just
based their diet on a description they heard at work or on Oprah.

--
Aaron -- 285/235/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

"If you read one million lines of C you'll understand the syntax. If
you read one million lines of perl, you'll conclude it has no syntax."

It's all about economics. You can't have it both ways by saying "We want low
carb foods but now that the manufacturers have responded, we don't like it."
People aren't "fooled" by these products. They are "voting" with their
pocketbooks.

2Phat wrote:
:: A long time ago I thought having low carb products in mass was a
:: good idea. I thought it would make low carb easier. I thought low
:: carb on the go would be easier. I thought cooking with low carb
:: products would be easier.
::
:: What I've learned is low carb products in mass really hurts the low
:: carb dieter because it takes away the basic principal of low carb.

That only can hurt the LC dieter who doesn't wish to lose weight. Those who
think that just because eating something that is low carb will lead to
weight loss are doomed from the start. It has little to do with any
product. And anyone can choose to not buy any product. One can also lose
weight eating these low carb products, if one knows what one is doing.

:: Yes some product development has been great for diabetics as they
:: have much better choices in foods that won't raise BSL's, and some
:: other products are excellent as they do not interfere with weight
:: lose,

"weight loss"

but for the most part the snacks, legal treats, pre made
:: shakes, breads, etc., have added to low carb being more of a fad
:: then a life style change. The products are more for maintenance but
:: fool the dieter into thinking it's a part of the diet phase.
::
:: I've come to realize low carb is at it's best when you are eating
:: real foods for the weight lose phase

"weight loss phase"

and maybe a few 'products' when
:: your in long term maintenance and incorporating the life style with
:: your tastes. You still have to be careful.
::
:: The marketing plan is, get a diet, it become popular people are
:: losing weight, get products, people stop losing weight and start
:: struggling with the diet.

You've been posting here a while now. Why not bother to learn the difference
between "lose" and "loss"?

2Phat said:

But low carb books do talk about abstaining from sugars and certain cards
and such. Atkins himself didn't even start discounting 'sugar alcohol's and
fiber until he started making products. They do not talk about having a low
carb product here and there. And I am referring to pre mass produced
products low carb books as I really don't know what changes any low carb
books made once the products took hold.

What I'm saying is the purity of low carb is gone, and pickles and ketchup
were not apart of that early purity, which is why it's harder to really do
low carb. Much harder now then it was before the mass production of
products.

So, it was OK and pure if I bought tomato paste, vinegar, and
sucralose, and spent time making it myself, winding up with something
with the same amount of carbs as Heinz, but not tasting as good? Or
if I bought cucumbers and made pickles myself, instead of buying the
Mt Olive ones? And somehow that was supposed to make it more likely
that I would stay on LC, having to go to more trouble, instead of
picking it up off the shelf? Either of those foods was perfectly fine
all the way back to the Atkins books of the 70's. The only
difference was back then, you had to do more yourself.

BTW, how do you make the Hood LC milk? I'd really like to know, in
case that goes away.

Quoted message said:

Yes, good for maintenance but not good for weight reduction.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

2Phat said:

A long time ago I thought having low carb products in mass was a good
idea.
I thought it would make low carb easier. I thought low carb on the go
would
be easier. I thought cooking with low carb products would be easier.

Quoted message said:

And having many of these products available does make LC easier for
people who are really serious about doing it and are going to take the
time to read a book and figure out how to do it right. Products
like Hood LC milk, Heinz Ketchup, Mt Olive Sweet Pickles, LC
Tortillas, even LC shakes for a quick occasional meal, make it easier
for me. I think it's silly to attribute the bursting of the LC
bubble to LC products. It's well known that the vast majority of
people can't follow any diet. A lot jumped on LC due to all the
media attention it was getting in the early part of the decade.
Suddenly it became the "in" thing to try as a quick and easy
solution. Most figured they could do LC for a month or two, drop 20
lbs and then go back to their old ways. They would have failed with
or without the products.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What I've learned is low carb products in mass really hurts the low carb
dieter because it takes away the basic principal of low carb. Yes some
product development has been great for diabetics as they have much better
choices in foods that won't raise BSL's, and some other products are
excellent as they do not interfere with weight lose, but for the most
part
the snacks, legal treats, pre made shakes, breads, etc., have added to
low
carb being more of a fad then a life style change. The products are more
for maintenance but fool the dieter into thinking it's a part of the diet
phase.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've come to realize low carb is at it's best when you are eating real
foods
for the weight lose phase and maybe a few 'products' when your in long
term
maintenance and incorporating the life style with your tastes. You still
have to be careful.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The marketing plan is, get a diet, it become popular people are losing
weight, get products, people stop losing weight and start struggling with
the diet.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I agree with this thought.............I mean it's great to be able to keep a
packet of peanuts in one's purse for when you really just can't get home to
cook something or eat something safe but for the most part, part of
healthier eating means cooking at home, at least for me. I keep peanuts at
work, at home, in my purse........those 1 oz packets.

Carol J

2Phat said:

A long time ago I thought having low carb products in mass was a good
idea. I thought it would make low carb easier. I thought low carb on
the go would be easier. I thought cooking with low carb products
would be easier.

What I've learned is low carb products in mass really hurts the low
carb dieter because it takes away the basic principal of low carb.
Yes some product development has been great for diabetics as they
have much better choices in foods that won't raise BSL's, and some
other products are excellent as they do not interfere with weight
lose, but for the most part the snacks, legal treats, pre made
shakes, breads, etc., have added to low carb being more of a fad then
a life style change. The products are more for maintenance but fool
the dieter into thinking it's a part of the diet phase.

I've come to realize low carb is at it's best when you are eating
real foods for the weight lose phase and maybe a few 'products' when
your in long term maintenance and incorporating the life style with
your tastes. You still have to be careful.

The marketing plan is, get a diet, it become popular people are losing
weight, get products, people stop losing weight and start struggling
with the diet.

This was a really good post.
Cubit

"2Phat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A long time ago I thought having low carb products in mass was a good idea.
I thought it would make low carb easier. I thought low carb on the go
would be easier. I thought cooking with low carb products would be easier.

What I've learned is low carb products in mass really hurts the low carb
dieter because it takes away the basic principal of low carb. Yes some
product development has been great for diabetics as they have much better
choices in foods that won't raise BSL's, and some other products are
excellent as they do not interfere with weight lose, but for the most part
the snacks, legal treats, pre made shakes, breads, etc., have added to low
carb being more of a fad then a life style change. The products are more
for maintenance but fool the dieter into thinking it's a part of the diet
phase.

I've come to realize low carb is at it's best when you are eating real
foods for the weight lose phase and maybe a few 'products' when your in
long term maintenance and incorporating the life style with your tastes.
You still have to be careful.

The marketing plan is, get a diet, it become popular people are losing
weight, get products, people stop losing weight and start struggling with
the diet.

Aaron Baugher said:

Quoted post said:

I think it's silly to attribute the bursting of the LC bubble to LC
products. It's well known that the vast majority of people can't
follow any diet. A lot jumped on LC due to all the media attention
it was getting in the early part of the decade. Suddenly it became
the "in" thing to try as a quick and easy solution. Most figured
they could do LC for a month or two, drop 20 lbs and then go back to
their old ways. They would have failed with or without the
products.

True. I've also heard some version of this several times: "Oh, you're
doing the low-carb/Atkins thing? My friend did that last year. She
lost a lot of weight at first, but she just couldn't handle all that
meat all the time."

Or even worse, you get people who say they tried it and it didn't
work, and then it turns out they thought rice was low-carb. Or they
just ate anything from the store that had an LC sticker on it, because
that's what they got used to with low-fat eating. They just went from
eating a box of low-fat cookies to eating a box of low-carb ice cream.

Many people who tried low-carb as a fad just skimmed through one of
the books for the lists of foods, or never read a book at all and just
based their diet on a description they heard at work or on Oprah.

These are good points, Aaron.

Several years ago when manufacturers started jumping on the low-carb
bandwagon, we had a discussion on a mailing list about how this wasn't
necessarily a good thing. We were outnumbered by the working moms who
wanted "low cost, wholesome, high quality, low-carb convenience foods"
to make their lives easier.

These same people were posting six months later that they "tried
Atkins and it didn't work."
--
BlueBrooke
255/250/135 -- 01 Jan 2007

For something to be economically feasible it has to appeal to a fairly large
segment of the population and/or be something they buy quite a bit. I like
the LC Ketchup and Hood's milk but don't use very much of either one. If
every low carber followed this same pattern it would mean a pretty small
market segment. I have said for a long time that I think they made a
mistake in advertising it for "low carb diets" instead of at least also
targetting diabetic who are a much larger market, though a lot of them don't
low carb very well. Many would prefer to eat their pasta and shoot up
insulin. I think this will gradually change as the medical community
figures out that low carb is the best way to treat diabetes. A lot of LC
product manufacturers were burned by expanding too rapidly during the boom
and will be slow to come back into the market with them.

Pat wrote:
| It's all about economics. You can't have it both ways by saying "We
| want low carb foods but now that the manufacturers have responded, we
| don't like it." People aren't "fooled" by these products. They are
| "voting" with their pocketbooks.

I know that folks in my weightloss surgery support group here in town, they
are forever searching for quick, easy solutions with as little work as
possible to "maintain" their weight loss. Probably is that folks who reach
their goal weight and/or are a year or so out, I've noticed that they do one
of two things........either they start regaining their weight and they stop
coming/posting to our local group/yahoo group OR they do stick around but
they are depressed or asking for help. When we discuss it, we find that in
most cases it's because they were looking for the easy out. They stopped
being sure that they took in more protein than carbs........and increased
their bread/pasta intake. The bottom line for alot of us is that we're just
going to have to take the time and feed ourselves by cooking or eating
fresh, whatever we intake. I wish that at some point I'd get so I don't
have to put so much thought into what I eat/drink each day but I realized a
couple of months ago, that just ain't gonna happen. If it does then I'm in
trouble. I think we do well to accept that which we can not change.......

--
Carol J
HW350/GW150/CW181.8

"BlueBrooke" <.@.> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 08:41:37 -0500, Aaron Baugher

These are good points, Aaron.

Several years ago when manufacturers started jumping on the low-carb
bandwagon, we had a discussion on a mailing list about how this wasn't
necessarily a good thing. We were outnumbered by the working moms who
wanted "low cost, wholesome, high quality, low-carb convenience foods"
to make their lives easier.

These same people were posting six months later that they "tried
Atkins and it didn't work."
--
BlueBrooke
255/250/135 -- 01 Jan 2007

I don't use LC milk, I would use heavy cream or forgo the food that would
require milk or have regular milk sparingly. I also, if I wanted to make
those items, would make them myself as I can be sure of the carb count and
ingredients as labels lie.

Also long with the low carb, back to cooking life style, people discovered a
host of intolerance from certain foods. Which frankly, if they didn't cook
and go low carb would have been forever in the dark about. Yeast being one
of the major issues.

But the point is, like so many are pointing out, the quick availability of
mass produced LC items have lead some to fail at the actual dieting part,
become lazy in what learning LC and really forget what LC is all about.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

2Phat said:

But low carb books do talk about abstaining from sugars and certain cards
and such. Atkins himself didn't even start discounting 'sugar alcohol's
and
fiber until he started making products. They do not talk about having a
low
carb product here and there. And I am referring to pre mass produced
products low carb books as I really don't know what changes any low carb
books made once the products took hold.

What I'm saying is the purity of low carb is gone, and pickles and
ketchup
were not apart of that early purity, which is why it's harder to really
do
low carb. Much harder now then it was before the mass production of
products.

So, it was OK and pure if I bought tomato paste, vinegar, and
sucralose, and spent time making it myself, winding up with something
with the same amount of carbs as Heinz, but not tasting as good? Or
if I bought cucumbers and made pickles myself, instead of buying the
Mt Olive ones? And somehow that was supposed to make it more likely
that I would stay on LC, having to go to more trouble, instead of
picking it up off the shelf? Either of those foods was perfectly fine
all the way back to the Atkins books of the 70's. The only
difference was back then, you had to do more yourself.

BTW, how do you make the Hood LC milk? I'd really like to know, in
case that goes away.

Quoted message said:

Yes, good for maintenance but not good for weight reduction.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Apr 29, 4:43 am, "2Phat" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> A long time ago I thought having low carb products in mass was a good
> idea.
> I thought it would make low carb easier. I thought low carb on the go
> would
> be easier. I thought cooking with low carb products would be easier.

Quoted message said:

And having many of these products available does make LC easier for
people who are really serious about doing it and are going to take the
time to read a book and figure out how to do it right. Products
like Hood LC milk, Heinz Ketchup, Mt Olive Sweet Pickles, LC
Tortillas, even LC shakes for a quick occasional meal, make it easier
for me. I think it's silly to attribute the bursting of the LC
bubble to LC products. It's well known that the vast majority of
people can't follow any diet. A lot jumped on LC due to all the
media attention it was getting in the early part of the decade.
Suddenly it became the "in" thing to try as a quick and easy
solution. Most figured they could do LC for a month or two, drop 20
lbs and then go back to their old ways. They would have failed with
or without the products.

Quoted message said:

> What I've learned is low carb products in mass really hurts the low
> carb
> dieter because it takes away the basic principal of low carb. Yes
> some
> product development has been great for diabetics as they have much
> better
> choices in foods that won't raise BSL's, and some other products are
> excellent as they do not interfere with weight lose, but for the most
> part
> the snacks, legal treats, pre made shakes, breads, etc., have added to
> low
> carb being more of a fad then a life style change. The products are
> more
> for maintenance but fool the dieter into thinking it's a part of the
> diet
> phase.

Quoted message said:

> I've come to realize low carb is at it's best when you are eating real
> foods
> for the weight lose phase and maybe a few 'products' when your in long
> term
> maintenance and incorporating the life style with your tastes. You
> still
> have to be careful.

Quoted message said:

> The marketing plan is, get a diet, it become popular people are losing
> weight, get products, people stop losing weight and start struggling
> with
> the diet.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

2Phat wrote:
:: But the point is, like so many are pointing out, the quick
:: availability of mass produced LC items have lead some to fail at the
:: actual dieting part, become lazy in what learning LC and really
:: forget what LC is all about.

Nonsense. They would have failed anyway. Whether it be LC products or just
flat out cheating, these people would not follow the plan. Trying to lay
blame after the fact just because there is something to "point at" is just
stupid.

So lazy people don't deserve dieting success? Seems to me that if you have
products available that make it easier more people will succeed and that's a
good thing.

2Phat wrote:
| I don't use LC milk, I would use heavy cream or forgo the food that
| would require milk or have regular milk sparingly. I also, if I
| wanted to make those items, would make them myself as I can be sure
| of the carb count and ingredients as labels lie.
|
| Also long with the low carb, back to cooking life style, people
| discovered a host of intolerance from certain foods. Which frankly,
| if they didn't cook and go low carb would have been forever in the
| dark about. Yeast being one of the major issues.
|
| But the point is, like so many are pointing out, the quick
| availability of mass produced LC items have lead some to fail at the
| actual dieting part, become lazy in what learning LC and really
| forget what LC is all about.
|
|
|

You nailed it on the head! That's the entire point of the post.

"FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So lazy people don't deserve dieting success? Seems to me that if you
have
products available that make it easier more people will succeed and that's
a
good thing.

2Phat said:

You nailed it on the head! That's the entire point of the post.

"FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So lazy people don't deserve dieting success? Seems to me that if you
have
products available that make it easier more people will succeed and that's
a
good thing.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

2Phat now agrees that the entire point of the original post was as FOB
stated, that having products available make it easier to do LC so more
people will succeed? Hmmm, now I'm confused.

Carol J said:

I know that folks in my weightloss surgery support group here in town, they
are forever searching for quick, easy solutions with as little work as
possible to "maintain" their weight loss. Probably is that folks who reach
their goal weight and/or are a year or so out, I've noticed that they do one
of two things........either they start regaining their weight and they stop
coming/posting to our local group/yahoo group OR they do stick around but
they are depressed or asking for help. When we discuss it, we find that in
most cases it's because they were looking for the easy out. They stopped
being sure that they took in more protein than carbs........and increased
their bread/pasta intake. The bottom line for alot of us is that we're just
going to have to take the time and feed ourselves by cooking or eating
fresh, whatever we intake.

I don't see how cooking it yourself has much to do with this. You
could cook
a pot of mashed potatoes and eat those too. If you're just don't
give a damn and
choose to eat bread and pasta, that strongly suggest to me that the
problem has little to do with what LC or regular foods are available
and a lot to do
with personal responsibility.

The simple fact is, it's well known that most dieters fail regardless
of what type of diet they are on.

And the other big assumption here is that everyone has the same LC
goals that you do.
How about someone who isn't seriously overweight and just has finally
bought into the idea
that a lot of carbs isn't good for you? So, they would rather buy a
LC version of a product
that they already buy, just trying to reduce their carb intake.
Should they be denied a LC or
reduced sugar product because someone else can't keep their hands off
it?

I wish that at some point I'd get so I don't

Quoted message said:

have to put so much thought into what I eat/drink each day but I realized a
couple of months ago, that just ain't gonna happen. If it does then I'm in
trouble. I think we do well to accept that which we can not change.......

--
Carol J
HW350/GW150/CW181.8

"BlueBrooke" <.@.> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 08:41:37 -0500, Aaron Baugher

These are good points, Aaron.

Several years ago when manufacturers started jumping on the low-carb
bandwagon, we had a discussion on a mailing list about how this wasn't
necessarily a good thing. We were outnumbered by the working moms who
wanted "low cost, wholesome, high quality, low-carb convenience foods"
to make their lives easier.

These same people were posting six months later that they "tried
Atkins and it didn't work."
--
BlueBrooke
255/250/135 -- 01 Jan 2007

Carol J said:

I agree with this thought.............I mean it's great to be able to keep a
packet of peanuts in one's purse for when you really just can't get home to
cook something or eat something safe but for the most part, part of
healthier eating means cooking at home, at least for me. I keep peanuts at
work, at home, in my purse........those 1 oz packets.

Carol J

So, it's OK for you to keep a packet of peanuts, which aren't that low
in carb, in your
pocket for this occasional situation, but if someone else chooses to
do the same thing
with a LC bar or shake, that will be leadto their failure and deserve
the blame?

Quoted message said:

2Phat said:

A long time ago I thought having low carb products in mass was a good
idea. I thought it would make low carb easier. I thought low carb on
the go would be easier. I thought cooking with low carb products
would be easier.

Quoted message said:

What I've learned is low carb products in mass really hurts the low
carb dieter because it takes away the basic principal of low carb.
Yes some product development has been great for diabetics as they
have much better choices in foods that won't raise BSL's, and some
other products are excellent as they do not interfere with weight
lose, but for the most part the snacks, legal treats, pre made
shakes, breads, etc., have added to low carb being more of a fad then
a life style change. The products are more for maintenance but fool
the dieter into thinking it's a part of the diet phase.

Quoted message said:

I've come to realize low carb is at it's best when you are eating
real foods for the weight lose phase and maybe a few 'products' when
your in long term maintenance and incorporating the life style with
your tastes. You still have to be careful.

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The marketing plan is, get a diet, it become popular people are losing
weight, get products, people stop losing weight and start struggling
with the diet.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Apr 30, 7:55 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

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2Phat said:

You nailed it on the head! That's the entire point of the post.

Quoted message said:

"FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So lazy people don't deserve dieting success? Seems to me that if you
have
products available that make it easier more people will succeed and that's
a
good thing.- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

2Phat now agrees that the entire point of the original post was as FOB
stated, that having products available make it easier to do LC so more
people will succeed? Hmmm, now I'm confused.

I was done with 2Phat, but the quotes just come through.

I think she was agreeing with lazy people don't deserve success.
Personally, I think lazy people are just like everyone else, only they
haven't found the right motivation yet. Let's say more environmental
than internal nature. Like criminality.

As a drinker of shakes, both RTD and mix yourself, an eater of
dreamfields, an occasional purcahser of InStone pudding (20g protein,
gotta love the power), and various other LC convenience products, I
find the insinuation from someone who hasn't lost and maintained any
real loss over any significant span of time to be at best, not worthy
of notice and at worst, insulting to the people who are like me and
have lost large amounts and maintained for months and years rather
than days and weeks.

Let's suggest that mileage varies, some folks tolerate some
convenience products very well and some don't, and that these products
(and things like wheat, peanuts, cassein protein, etc) have some
variability in response. That seems reasonable.

PS- Dreamfields is good for me, I understand where folks may suggest
that it's feeding my bad habits like eating pasta, and I am willing to
live with that. Just because I'm not committed to a completely paleo
lifestyle doesn't mean I'm not committed to better health and
weightloss.

-Hollywood