Resting metabolism, part duex

Bob in CT wrote:
:: Ok, I didn't phrase correctly what's going on. Yesterday, I
:: performed aerobics for 45 minutes. Not nearly as hard as biking on
:: the roads, but then it was raining yesterday. Today, I did an
:: extremely hard workout with weights (20 sets in about 30 minutes,
:: three sets of three supersets, with deadlifts, pullups, bulgarian
:: split squats, incline presses, etc.). I continue to sweat afterwards.
::
:: The sweating occurs AFTER I take a shower. I drive from the gym to
:: work, which has a shower. I use the shower at work, because there's
:: no one there. AFTER I shower, and while making my breakfast, I'm
:: still sweating from the workout. I continue to sweat for about 30
:: minutes. And, I mean mopping my brow type of sweating.
::
:: Both types of workouts seem to cause similar results in terms of
:: sweating, which occurs AFTER I shower.
::
:: Now that I've been more clear, what are your thoughts?
::

Well, who knows. One possibility is that you took a hot shower and haven't
cooled off (did you take a cold shower?)...or it's humid there or, with the
weather in transistion at this time of year, the cooling system hasn't
cracked in quite yet. I mean, most types of workouts get one a bit in need
of cooling off (plus you were doing compound movements), so if that hasn't
occured after the workout you continue to sweat. Also, larger (fat and/or
muscular) people tend to sweat more than smaller people under the same
temp/humidity conditions. Finally, one doesn't need to do much exercise at
all to be all hot and bothered! 🙂

Or course, some people are just good at sweating.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, such as they are.

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:59:30 -0400, Roger Zoul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bob in CT wrote:
:: Ok, I didn't phrase correctly what's going on. Yesterday, I
:: performed aerobics for 45 minutes. Not nearly as hard as biking on
:: the roads, but then it was raining yesterday. Today, I did an
:: extremely hard workout with weights (20 sets in about 30 minutes,
:: three sets of three supersets, with deadlifts, pullups, bulgarian
:: split squats, incline presses, etc.). I continue to sweat afterwards.
::
:: The sweating occurs AFTER I take a shower. I drive from the gym to
:: work, which has a shower. I use the shower at work, because there's
:: no one there. AFTER I shower, and while making my breakfast, I'm
:: still sweating from the workout. I continue to sweat for about 30
:: minutes. And, I mean mopping my brow type of sweating.
::
:: Both types of workouts seem to cause similar results in terms of
:: sweating, which occurs AFTER I shower.
::
:: Now that I've been more clear, what are your thoughts?
::

Well, who knows. One possibility is that you took a hot shower and
haven't
cooled off (did you take a cold shower?)...or it's humid there or, with
the
weather in transistion at this time of year, the cooling system hasn't
cracked in quite yet. I mean, most types of workouts get one a bit in
need
of cooling off (plus you were doing compound movements), so if that
hasn't
occured after the workout you continue to sweat. Also, larger (fat and/or
muscular) people tend to sweat more than smaller people under the same
temp/humidity conditions. Finally, one doesn't need to do much exercise
at
all to be all hot and bothered! 🙂

Or course, some people are just good at sweating.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, such as they are.

So, basically, I can't draw any conclusions from sweating after a shower.
Darn! There goes my Nobel prize.

--
Bob in CT

Bob in CT said:

Ok, I didn't phrase correctly what's going on. Yesterday, I performed
aerobics for 45 minutes. Not nearly as hard as biking on the roads,
but then it was raining yesterday. Today, I did an extremely hard
workout with weights (20 sets in about 30 minutes, three sets of three
supersets, with deadlifts, pullups, bulgarian split squats, incline
presses, etc.). I continue to sweat afterwards.

The sweating occurs AFTER I take a shower. I drive from the gym to
work, which has a shower. I use the shower at work, because there's no
one there. AFTER I shower, and while making my breakfast, I'm still
sweating from the workout. I continue to sweat for about 30 minutes.
And, I mean mopping my brow type of sweating.

Both types of workouts seem to cause similar results in terms of
sweating, which occurs AFTER I shower.

Now that I've been more clear, what are your thoughts?

Like Roger wrote, maybe it was the weather or a high core body
temp causing you to sweat after working out. But if you want to
consider other health related issues...

You might think about your sweating as due to a slight
hypoglycemic attack. You WT workout would be pulling a lot of
glucose out of your system, especially post WT. That would cause
you to sweat and feel a anxious, plus have a higher HRT.

Have you ever tested your recover HRT 5 minutes after exercising?
On a more serious point have you ever had a through heart exam?
More than just an EKG, but rather an echocardiography or MRI?
I don't want to sound like an alarmist, cause getting your heart
checked out is a good ideal for any of us getting a little older.

In the past when I've read some of your post you've mentioned
heart rates that have seemed higher then they should for the
effort and length of time. I can't recall now exactly what was
written (and don't have the time this AM to go goggling), but
you've mentioned going for long periods of time at very high
HRTs. Most people would hit a lactate threshold at shorter time
periods. Your heart muscle would be working hard, without your
leg muscles being overloaded. Which makes me wonder if your
heart is just having to work harder then it should for some other
reason.

On a different note, the reason WT is often noted for causing a
higher metabolism for longer period of time than moderate cardio
is due to the measured amount of post exercise oxygen consumption
levels. In short you need more oxygen to repair and clean-up
(removing lactate for example) the muscles. Plus with a hard
enough WT workout your hormone levels will be effected.

--
Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
-Emiliano Zapata

Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at:
http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

RRzVRR wrote:
::
:: You might think about your sweating as due to a slight
:: hypoglycemic attack. You WT workout would be pulling a lot of
:: glucose out of your system, especially post WT. That would cause
:: you to sweat and feel a anxious, plus have a higher HRT.
::
:: Have you ever tested your recover HRT 5 minutes after exercising?
:: On a more serious point have you ever had a through heart exam?
:: More than just an EKG, but rather an echocardiography or MRI?
:: I don't want to sound like an alarmist, cause getting your heart
:: checked out is a good ideal for any of us getting a little older.
::
:: In the past when I've read some of your post you've mentioned
:: heart rates that have seemed higher then they should for the
:: effort and length of time. I can't recall now exactly what was
:: written (and don't have the time this AM to go goggling), but
:: you've mentioned going for long periods of time at very high
:: HRTs. Most people would hit a lactate threshold at shorter time
:: periods. Your heart muscle would be working hard, without your
:: leg muscles being overloaded. Which makes me wonder if your
:: heart is just having to work harder then it should for some other
:: reason.

That's interesting, Rudy. I remember having the exact same impressions when
seeing that data (about the HR, not the tests).

I do agree that the test would be a good idea in general. Hmm...I'll be 49
next month!

::
:: On a different note, the reason WT is often noted for causing a
:: higher metabolism for longer period of time than moderate cardio
:: is due to the measured amount of post exercise oxygen consumption
:: levels. In short you need more oxygen to repair and clean-up
:: (removing lactate for example) the muscles. Plus with a hard
:: enough WT workout your hormone levels will be effected.
::
:: --
:: Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.
::
:: "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
:: -Emiliano Zapata
::
:: Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at:
:: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

Roger Zoul wrote:
:: RRzVRR wrote:
::::
:::: You might think about your sweating as due to a slight
:::: hypoglycemic attack. You WT workout would be pulling a lot of
:::: glucose out of your system, especially post WT. That would cause
:::: you to sweat and feel a anxious, plus have a higher HRT.
::::
:::: Have you ever tested your recover HRT 5 minutes after exercising?
:::: On a more serious point have you ever had a through heart exam?
:::: More than just an EKG, but rather an echocardiography or MRI?
:::: I don't want to sound like an alarmist, cause getting your heart
:::: checked out is a good ideal for any of us getting a little older.
::::
:::: In the past when I've read some of your post you've mentioned
:::: heart rates that have seemed higher then they should for the
:::: effort and length of time. I can't recall now exactly what was
:::: written (and don't have the time this AM to go goggling), but
:::: you've mentioned going for long periods of time at very high
:::: HRTs. Most people would hit a lactate threshold at shorter time
:::: periods. Your heart muscle would be working hard, without your
:::: leg muscles being overloaded. Which makes me wonder if your
:::: heart is just having to work harder then it should for some other
:::: reason.
::
:: That's interesting, Rudy. I remember having the exact same
:: impressions when seeing that data (about the HR, not the tests).
::

Oh, another thought that I had when seeing some of that data is that it's
based on a max HR and if you have that wrong (too low), the %'s will look
higher than they really are. If I go by the 220 - age formula (or whatever
that formula is) then I get a number that is too low because I've seen my HR
up to 188 while climbing a steep hill. So, I use 188 as my max. But I still
can't truly say that's it. Prior to seeing that 188 I had only seen 182,
which was the max I used up until the 188 showed up.

So....maybe a stress test can be used to find the max HR....so if you have a
heart attack at least the doctor is around....Maybe an EMS crew would be
better, though. 🙂

:: I do agree that the test would be a good idea in general. Hmm...I'll
:: be 49 next month!
::
::::
:::: On a different note, the reason WT is often noted for causing a
:::: higher metabolism for longer period of time than moderate cardio
:::: is due to the measured amount of post exercise oxygen consumption
:::: levels. In short you need more oxygen to repair and clean-up
:::: (removing lactate for example) the muscles. Plus with a hard
:::: enough WT workout your hormone levels will be effected.
::::
:::: --
:::: Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.
::::
:::: "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
:::: -Emiliano Zapata
::::
:::: Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at:
:::: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

Roger Zoul said:

Roger Zoul wrote:

Quoted message said:

:: That's interesting, Rudy. I remember having the exact same
:: impressions when seeing that data (about the HR, not the tests).
::

Oh, another thought that I had when seeing some of that data is that it's
based on a max HR and if you have that wrong (too low), the %'s will look
higher than they really are. If I go by the 220 - age formula (or whatever
that formula is) then I get a number that is too low because I've seen my HR
up to 188 while climbing a steep hill. So, I use 188 as my max. But I still
can't truly say that's it. Prior to seeing that 188 I had only seen 182,
which was the max I used up until the 188 showed up.

Quoted message said:

So....maybe a stress test can be used to find the max HR....so if you have a
heart attack at least the doctor is around....Maybe an EMS crew would be
better, though. 🙂

The 220-age method is just an rough estimate of your max HRT.
Some people do better using the Karvonen method. It uses your
resting heart rate as a base for finding your max HRT. By doing
that you're factoring in how fit/unfit someone is in finding the
max HRT. But I guess a stress test would get you closer to the
real number.

If I did a lot of endurance cardio training/events, I'd look into
the cost of getting a VO2 max test. It'll also give your max
heart rate. But its probably pricey and you need to be somewhat fit.

Also regarding as the stress test, now it unfortunately seems
that a stress test isn't the best measure of finding heart
disease. An scan to see the heart would be better option.

--
Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
-Emiliano Zapata

Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at:
http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

RRzVRR said:

Roger Zoul said:

Roger Zoul wrote:
:: That's interesting, Rudy. I remember having the exact same
:: impressions when seeing that data (about the HR, not the tests).
::

Quoted message said:

Oh, another thought that I had when seeing some of that data is that it's
based on a max HR and if you have that wrong (too low), the %'s will look
higher than they really are. If I go by the 220 - age formula (or whatever
that formula is) then I get a number that is too low because I've seen my HR
up to 188 while climbing a steep hill. So, I use 188 as my max. But I still
can't truly say that's it. Prior to seeing that 188 I had only seen 182,
which was the max I used up until the 188 showed up.
So....maybe a stress test can be used to find the max HR....so if you have a
heart attack at least the doctor is around....Maybe an EMS crew would be
better, though. 🙂

The 220-age method is just an rough estimate of your max HRT.
Some people do better using the Karvonen method. It uses your
resting heart rate as a base for finding your max HRT. By doing
that you're factoring in how fit/unfit someone is in finding the
max HRT. But I guess a stress test would get you closer to the
real number.

For giggles:
Below is an example of the Karvonen formula for a 23 year old person
with a resting heart rate of 65 beats per minute (*to get your resting
heart rate, take your pulse for one full minute.):

220 - 23 (age) = 197
197 - 65 (resting heart rate) = 132
132 * 65% (low end of heart rate) OR 85% (high end) = 85.8 OR 112.2
85.8 + 65 (resting heart rate) = 150
112.2 + 65 (rhr) = 177
The target heart rate zone for this person would be 150 to 177

For me:
220 - 34 = 186
186 - 60 = 126 (I'm a metronome!)
126 * .65 = 81.9
126 *.85 = 107.1

82+60 = 142
107+60 = 167
That's the range. Do we worry about this or do we just do the work
till we're too tired to do more?

RRzVRR said:

The 220-age method is just an rough estimate of your max HRT.
Some people do better using the Karvonen method. It uses your
resting heart rate as a base for finding your max HRT. By doing
that you're factoring in how fit/unfit someone is in finding the
max HRT. But I guess a stress test would get you closer to the
real number.

If I did a lot of endurance cardio training/events, I'd look into
the cost of getting a VO2 max test. It'll also give your max
heart rate. But its probably pricey and you need to be somewhat fit.

Also regarding as the stress test, now it unfortunately seems
that a stress test isn't the best measure of finding heart
disease. An scan to see the heart would be better option.

Interesting, comment from the House Cardiologist, please.
--
http://www.steppenwolf.com/lyr/mnnster.html

Hollywood said:

RRzVRR said:

Roger Zoul said:

Roger Zoul wrote:
:: That's interesting, Rudy. I remember having the exact same
:: impressions when seeing that data (about the HR, not the tests).
::

Quoted message said:

Oh, another thought that I had when seeing some of that data is that it's
based on a max HR and if you have that wrong (too low), the %'s will look
higher than they really are. If I go by the 220 - age formula (or whatever
that formula is) then I get a number that is too low because I've seen my HR
up to 188 while climbing a steep hill. So, I use 188 as my max. But I still
can't truly say that's it. Prior to seeing that 188 I had only seen 182,
which was the max I used up until the 188 showed up.
So....maybe a stress test can be used to find the max HR....so if you have a
heart attack at least the doctor is around....Maybe an EMS crew would be
better, though. 🙂

The 220-age method is just an rough estimate of your max HRT.
Some people do better using the Karvonen method. It uses your
resting heart rate as a base for finding your max HRT. By doing
that you're factoring in how fit/unfit someone is in finding the
max HRT. But I guess a stress test would get you closer to the
real number.

For giggles:
Below is an example of the Karvonen formula for a 23 year old person
with a resting heart rate of 65 beats per minute (*to get your resting
heart rate, take your pulse for one full minute.):

Resting heart rate is taken first thing in the morning
(preferably waking without an alarm) before any movement and of
course without eating or drinking anything. Actually it would be
best if you could test for several days and get an average.
Tracking your resting heart rate is one of the ways to see just
how efficient your CVS becoming, or to see if you're
overtraining. A fit person should have a lower RHRT, but if
they're overtraining that rate will rise. Resting heart rates
often go up as you age (just like blood pressure often does).

Quoted message said:

220 - 23 (age) = 197
197 - 65 (resting heart rate) = 132
132 * 65% (low end of heart rate) OR 85% (high end) = 85.8 OR 112.2
85.8 + 65 (resting heart rate) = 150
112.2 + 65 (rhr) = 177
The target heart rate zone for this person would be 150 to 177

Lets look at this differently, let look as if your were a very
fit 40 year old (someone who runs a lot of marathons). Your
numbers might be:

220-40=180
180-55=125
125*0.65=81.25+58=136.25

And then lets look at an unfit 40 year old who hasn't been
working out:

220-40=180
180-75=105
105*0.65=68.25+ 75=143.25

So the fit person's heart rate reserve is much higher then the
unfit person. What's also true is that the unfit person will hit
that 143 HRT while making a much less 'visual' effort than the
fit person will have to make getting to 136.

Quoted message said:

For me:
220 - 34 = 186
186 - 60 = 126 (I'm a metronome!)
126 * .65 = 81.9
126 *.85 = 107.1

82+60 = 142
107+60 = 167

Quoted message said:

That's the range. Do we worry about this or do we just do the work
till we're too tired to do more?

Worry, probably not. Most people will do fine by just using
their perceived exertion (look up the Borg scale). But if you're
unfit and just starting out you might want keep an eye on the
numbers. Some people believe at first that they have to work
harder then they need to in order to start getting fit. Plus, I
can't tell you how many times I've put a new client on a machine
to check out their heart rate and find out they forgot to tell
me they take asthma medication (or Ritalin) or they don't drink
any fluids -- all will effect your heart rate. Once I had a
person show such a high heart rate with so little effort that I
asked them to see a doctor for clearance before doing any training.

But maybe you're like me and what to SEE fitness improvement via
the numbers. Or if you're training for a race or event. Then
the numbers can start to matter in how you train.

--
Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
-Emiliano Zapata

Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at:
http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

RRzVRR said:

Resting heart rate is taken first thing in the morning
(preferably waking without an alarm) before any movement and of
course without eating or drinking anything. Actually it would be
best if you could test for several days and get an average.
Tracking your resting heart rate is one of the ways to see just
how efficient your CVS becoming, or to see if you're
overtraining. A fit person should have a lower RHRT, but if
they're overtraining that rate will rise. Resting heart rates
often go up as you age (just like blood pressure often does).

RHR can either elevate or decline fully dependent on the OT syndrome
attached to the swing in RHR. It is a single indicator and, by far, the
least predictive or diagnostic. The best are a pair of good eye's on the
Trainer and the reports of fatigue and inability to recover. These
reports don't necessarily have to come from the athlete, the evidence is
right there before the Trainer's eyes.

The sympathetic form we see in sprint (anaerobic) sports and the
parasympathetic in (aerobic) endurance sports. In the sympathetic, the
resting heart rate is elevated. In the parasympathetic, decreased. It is
not uncommon to have OS with normal biochemistry. There is no test for
OS whatsoever except to say the "diagnosis" is observational.
--
http://www.steppenwolf.com/lyr/mnnster.html

RRzVRR said:

But if you're
unfit and just starting out you might want keep an eye on the
numbers. Some people believe at first that they have to work
harder then they need to in order to start getting fit. Plus, I
can't tell you how many times I've put a new client on a machine
to check out their heart rate and find out they forgot to tell
me they take asthma medication (or Ritalin) or they don't drink
any fluids -- all will effect your heart rate. Once I had a
person show such a high heart rate with so little effort that I
asked them to see a doctor for clearance before doing any training.

Bassackwards, no athlete I ever trained, or ever will train, will come
without signing off a complete set of waivers of liability and attaching
his MDs approval for training.

Including is a complete pharmacology and before they step on the floor,
they sign in and declare what meds, doses etc that have taken in the
last periods since training.

I rarely see this effort in getting clearances and daily uptakes
accounted for, but your not getting on my floor or receiving your
training regimen for that day until I get it and review it.

It's a little late to pass out a Ritalin induced HBP rise and pick the
trainee up of the floor with "Sorry about that."

Fluids consumption, same thing, no caffeinated bevs or out the in door
you go.
--
http://www.steppenwolf.com/lyr/mnnster.html