food chemistry question

maxine in ri said:

Does anyone know what adding boiling oil and water does to flour that
is different from adding the ingredient cold and bringing them up to
temperature?

Wouldn't it make the flour lump up? My understanding of the reason one
added flour to cold oil or cold water was to make sure the flour
granules got distributed evenly. Then when they were heated, the starch
in the flour thickened the mixture. If added to hot, the outside of the
flour starch thickened right away such that no amount of whisking could
break up the lump to get the inside part in contact with the oil or
water for proper thickening.

--Lia

Julia Altshuler said:

maxine in ri said:

Does anyone know what adding boiling oil and water does to flour that
is different from adding the ingredient cold and bringing them up to
temperature?

Wouldn't it make the flour lump up? My understanding of the reason one
added flour to cold oil or cold water was to make sure the flour
granules got distributed evenly. Then when they were heated, the starch
in the flour thickened the mixture. If added to hot, the outside of the
flour starch thickened right away such that no amount of whisking could
break up the lump to get the inside part in contact with the oil or
water for proper thickening.

Ragoût de boulettes is prepared by thickening the poaching liquid of
the meatballs with browned flour. This has to be done while the
liquid is hot so the flour cooks. The method preferred is to remove
the pot from the heat, use a sifter of some sort to distribute the
flour evenly over the surface, mix it in, heat back to a gentle boil,
then repeat the operation until the desired thickness is achieved.
So, the flour never lumps up and it creates the smoothest and tastiest
meat-based sauce you can imagine.

If adding liquid to flour, then yes, I would say cold, but one
sometimes adds melted butter (which must be at the very least warm).

Quoted message said:

Julia Altshuler said:

maxine in ri said:

Does anyone know what adding boiling oil and water does to flour that
is different from adding the ingredient cold and bringing them up to
temperature?

Wouldn't it make the flour lump up? My understanding of the reason one
added flour to cold oil or cold water was to make sure the flour
granules got distributed evenly. Then when they were heated, the starch
in the flour thickened the mixture. If added to hot, the outside of the
flour starch thickened right away such that no amount of whisking could
break up the lump to get the inside part in contact with the oil or
water for proper thickening.

Ragoût de boulettes is prepared by thickening the poaching liquid of
the meatballs with browned flour. This has to be done while the
liquid is hot so the flour cooks. The method preferred is to remove
the pot from the heat, use a sifter of some sort to distribute the
flour evenly over the surface, mix it in, heat back to a gentle boil,
then repeat the operation until the desired thickness is achieved.
So, the flour never lumps up and it creates the smoothest and tastiest
meat-based sauce you can imagine.

If adding liquid to flour, then yes, I would say cold, but one
sometimes adds melted butter (which must be at the very least warm).

When making potsticker dough or Chinese dumpling dough the water must
be hot or boiling when you add it. I've tried using cooler water and it
doesn't work. It's an instant thickening.

Melondy

Melondy said:

Quoted message said:

Julia Altshuler said:

maxine in ri wrote:
> Does anyone know what adding boiling oil and water does to flour that
> is different from adding the ingredient cold and bringing them up to
> temperature?
Wouldn't it make the flour lump up? My understanding of the reason one
added flour to cold oil or cold water was to make sure the flour
granules got distributed evenly. Then when they were heated, the starch
in the flour thickened the mixture. If added to hot, the outside of the
flour starch thickened right away such that no amount of whisking could
break up the lump to get the inside part in contact with the oil or
water for proper thickening.

Quoted message said:

Ragoût de boulettes is prepared by thickening the poaching liquid of
the meatballs with browned flour. This has to be done while the
liquid is hot so the flour cooks. The method preferred is to remove
the pot from the heat, use a sifter of some sort to distribute the
flour evenly over the surface, mix it in, heat back to a gentle boil,
then repeat the operation until the desired thickness is achieved.
So, the flour never lumps up and it creates the smoothest and tastiest
meat-based sauce you can imagine.

Quoted message said:

If adding liquid to flour, then yes, I would say cold, but one
sometimes adds melted butter (which must be at the very least warm).

When making potsticker dough or Chinese dumpling dough the water must
be hot or boiling when you add it. I've tried using cooler water and it
doesn't work. It's an instant thickening.

Melondy

That sounds like what's going on in the choux. The hot mixture
conjeals almost instantly, then you beat in the eggs to make it
paste. I wonder if it also has something to do with cooking the
gluten to keep the pastry tender. But that would mean the proteins in
the eggs are what are allowing it to expand when cooked. Hmmm.

maxine in ri