Fake Protein Supplements?

"Prisoner at War" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a company by a
bodybuilder -- Labrada, Dave Draper's Bomber Blend, Dorian Yates
Approved -- since these guys, presumably, wouldn't want to get a bad
reputation for shoddy products. (How about Gaspari Nutrition, then?
Or Bentacourt....)

But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe that there are
companies which sell rip-off protein powders, I've never heard a name
mentioned at all. So, which companies sell b.s. protein powders?
Which brand's protein mix is not really protein, or not the advertised
protein, etc.?

It's not much, and I don't have a source, but years ago I read an article
that criticized whey protein manufacturers. The gist was that they say how
whey protein isolate was shown effective with such-and-such results, but
then they turn around and sell a different product, whey protein
concentrate, because it's cheaper to make. But I searched on google products
(used to be Froogle), and the isolate variety only seems to be a little more
expensive on average than the concentrate.

Did they wise up? Are health food stores carrying whey protein isolate now
too?

David

--
Adamant Barbell
Unyielding steel, built for abuse
www.adamantbarbell.com

In article <[email hidden]>,

Prisoner at War said:

Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a company by a
bodybuilder -- Labrada, Dave Draper's Bomber Blend, Dorian Yates
Approved -- since these guys, presumably, wouldn't want to get a bad
reputation for shoddy products. (How about Gaspari Nutrition, then?
Or Bentacourt....)

But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe that there are
companies which sell rip-off protein powders, I've never heard a name
mentioned at all. So, which companies sell b.s. protein powders?

What is a "b.s. protein powder"? Define that first.

OCD/ADHD ramble snipped.

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

Prisoner at War said:

Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a company by a
bodybuilder

What? Whose advice? Whoever it is, stop taking their advice, because
they're an idiot.

Quoted message said:

But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe that there are
companies which sell rip-off protein powders, I've never heard a name
mentioned at all.

Possibly because guys on fora are mostly retarded bullshitters.

Rip-off products in general, yes, but protein powder? The stuff is so
cheap for the manufacturers to buy that it doesn't seem worth it. I mean,
they'd have to find something cheaper to cut it with, and short of fly
ash, i can't think of anything!

tom

--
The RAMAN VESSEL enters the SOLAR SYSTEM. The explorers explore it,
and it is COOL. Then they LEAVE. Then the Raman vessel LEAVES. --
Book-A-Minute SF/F

In article <[email hidden]>, "Dave"

Quoted message said:

It's not much, and I don't have a source, but years ago I read an article
that criticized whey protein manufacturers. The gist was that they say how
whey protein isolate was shown effective with such-and-such results, but
then they turn around and sell a different product, whey protein
concentrate, because it's cheaper to make.

Either the article is wrong or you are quoting it wrong. Most of the
studies that looked at the benefits of whey used concentrates. The entire
whey industry that was used to sell whey, was based on concentrate
studies. More recent studies have used isolates. Everything you could need
to know about whey:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=25

Quoted message said:

But I searched on google products
(used to be Froogle), and the isolate variety only seems to be a little more
expensive on average than the concentrate.

Did they wise up? Are health food stores carrying whey protein isolate now
too?

Of course, thought very few sell pure isolates as they are expensive. A
mix of isolate and concentrates is the norm. Plenty of scams and BS in the
supplement industry, including the sellers of whey, but it has nothing to
do with the manufacturers of whey and everything to do with the companies
that sell it (hint, they are not one and the same thing).

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

The bodybuilding.com boards, for starters. Of course, it's what those
ads themselves claim -- essentially, "my name is here because this is
real protein unlike some no-name brands."

Yes, whey protein does seem cheap these days -- surprised so many
college students are still living on ramen noodles! -- but that only
means the profits would be even greater for unscrupulous companies.

Tom Anderson said:

What? Whose advice? Whoever it is, stop taking their advice, because
they're an idiot.

Possibly because guys on fora are mostly retarded bullshitters.

Rip-off products in general, yes, but protein powder? The stuff is so
cheap for the manufacturers to buy that it doesn't seem worth it. I mean,
they'd have to find something cheaper to cut it with, and short of fly
ash, i can't think of anything!

tom

--
The RAMAN VESSEL enters the SOLAR SYSTEM. The explorers explore it,
and it is COOL. Then they LEAVE. Then the Raman vessel LEAVES. --
Book-A-Minute SF/F

Dave said:

It's not much, and I don't have a source, but years ago I read an article
that criticized whey protein manufacturers. The gist was that they say how
whey protein isolate was shown effective with such-and-such results, but
then they turn around and sell a different product, whey protein
concentrate, because it's cheaper to make.

Sounds a bit like what's happening with creatine: all the studies are
done on creatine monohydrate, but companies come out with their own
"improvements" on creatine while citing the results of studies done
using creatine monohydrate.

Quoted message said:

But I searched on google products
(used to be Froogle), and the isolate variety only seems to be a little more
expensive on average than the concentrate.

A lot more, actually: those couple of dollars difference add up when
you buy in bulk!

Quoted message said:

Did they wise up? Are health food stores carrying whey protein isolate now
too?

That's the other thing: I'm wary of health food stores. I mean, all
these things that healthy people have done without...it just sounds so
silly on the face of it!

Anyway, since I'm getting on in years here and ain't responding like I
used to be, I'm changing a lot of things, including my diet. I will
try protein powder for, I dunno, two months and see if anything seems
to happen. I just thought it odd that there's talk of rip-off b.s.
powders out there, but no one ever actually names any names! Just as
strange is how Supplement Direct sells the absolute lowest priced
protein by far, but there's hardly any talk of them, either!

Quoted message said:

David

--
Adamant Barbell
Unyielding steel, built for abusewww.adamantbarbell.com

What do they cut it with?
Talcum powder?

"Prisoner at War" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a company by a
bodybuilder -- Labrada, Dave Draper's Bomber Blend, Dorian Yates
Approved -- since these guys, presumably, wouldn't want to get a bad
reputation for shoddy products. (How about Gaspari Nutrition, then?
Or Bentacourt....)

But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe that there are
companies which sell rip-off protein powders, I've never heard a name
mentioned at all. So, which companies sell b.s. protein powders?
Which brand's protein mix is not really protein, or not the advertised
protein, etc.?

How's Supplement Direct? Odd I find very little said about them,
considering that they sell the absolute cheapest protein powder
anywhere! From what little research I was able to conduct, they seem
to be supplied -- despite their claims of manufacturing their own
stuff -- by a company called Proteint in MN, which supposedly has the
largest whey isolate facility in the whole world!

And, also, has Schwarzenegger ever done supplement endorsements
himself? I'm surprised he and best buddy Franco Columbu never went
into this business (I understand they were partners in some
construction company they had, which apparently afforded them all
those hours at the gym and all those steroids!)....

Prisoner at War said:

Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a company by a
bodybuilder -- Labrada, Dave Draper's Bomber Blend, Dorian Yates
Approved -- since these guys, presumably, wouldn't want to get a bad
reputation for shoddy products. (How about Gaspari Nutrition, then?
Or Bentacourt....)

But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe that there are
companies which sell rip-off protein powders, I've never heard a name
mentioned at all. So, which companies sell b.s. protein powders?
Which brand's protein mix is not really protein, or not the advertised
protein, etc.?

How's Supplement Direct? Odd I find very little said about them,
considering that they sell the absolute cheapest protein powder
anywhere! From what little research I was able to conduct, they seem
to be supplied -- despite their claims of manufacturing their own
stuff -- by a company called Proteint in MN, which supposedly has the
largest whey isolate facility in the whole world!

And, also, has Schwarzenegger ever done supplement endorsements
himself? I'm surprised he and best buddy Franco Columbu never went
into this business (I understand they were partners in some
construction company they had, which apparently afforded them all
those hours at the gym and all those steroids!)....

Better yet, don't buy protein supplements. If you want more protein
eat some nonfat egg whites at 3 gms per egg white. This makes them low
calorie as well. One body builder I know just eats some canned tuna
when he wants more protein. This fixation with getting protein is not
warranted by the research. It probably won't hurt you but it is a
waste of money. Protein is EASY to get in food...all you could
possibly want, even for us vegetarians. dkw

All protein powders are [censored]. Stick with real food. Protein powders
will actually pull fat soluble vitamins right out of you. AND all of
them have some sort of synthetic sugar. Eat liver! One of nature's
wonder foods. Vince Gironda knew a lot of stuff way before anybody
else! Also, check out the folks at http://www.westonaprice.org -
really spot on for maximizing your health!

Tom
http://www.itspuresoap.com

On May 16, 11:51 am, Prisoner at War <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Dave said:

It's not much, and I don't have a source, but years ago I read an article
that criticized whey protein manufacturers. The gist was that they say how
whey protein isolate was shown effective with such-and-such results, but
then they turn around and sell a different product, whey protein
concentrate, because it's cheaper to make.

Sounds a bit like what's happening with creatine: all the studies are
done on creatine monohydrate, but companies come out with their own
"improvements" on creatine while citing the results of studies done
using creatine monohydrate.

Quoted message said:

But I searched on google products
(used to be Froogle), and the isolate variety only seems to be a little more
expensive on average than the concentrate.

A lot more, actually: those couple of dollars difference add up when
you buy in bulk!

Quoted message said:

Did they wise up? Are health food stores carrying whey protein isolate now
too?

That's the other thing: I'm wary of health food stores. I mean, all
these things that healthy people have done without...it just sounds so
silly on the face of it!

Anyway, since I'm getting on in years here and ain't responding like I
used to be, I'm changing a lot of things, including my diet. I will
try protein powder for, I dunno, two months and see if anything seems
to happen. I just thought it odd that there's talk of rip-off b.s.
powders out there, but no one ever actually names any names! Just as
strange is how Supplement Direct sells the absolute lowest priced
protein by far, but there's hardly any talk of them, either!

Quoted message said:

David

Quoted message said:

--
Adamant Barbell
Unyielding steel, built for abusewww.adamantbarbell.com

Quoted post said:

Prisoner at War said:

Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a company by a
bodybuilder -- Labrada, Dave Draper's Bomber Blend, Dorian Yates
Approved -- since these guys, presumably, wouldn't want to get a bad
reputation for shoddy products. (How about Gaspari Nutrition, then?
Or Bentacourt....)

But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe that there are
companies which sell rip-off protein powders, I've never heard a name
mentioned at all. So, which companies sell b.s. protein powders?
Which brand's protein mix is not really protein, or not the advertised
protein, etc.?

How's Supplement Direct? Odd I find very little said about them,
considering that they sell the absolute cheapest protein powder
anywhere! From what little research I was able to conduct, they seem
to be supplied -- despite their claims of manufacturing their own
stuff -- by a company called Proteint in MN, which supposedly has the
largest whey isolate facility in the whole world!

And, also, has Schwarzenegger ever done supplement endorsements
himself? I'm surprised he and best buddy Franco Columbu never went
into this business (I understand they were partners in some
construction company they had, which apparently afforded them all
those hours at the gym and all those steroids!)....

Better yet, don't buy protein supplements. If you want more protein
eat some nonfat egg whites at 3 gms per egg white. This makes them
low calorie as well. One body builder I know just eats some canned
tuna when he wants more protein.

While both egg whites and tuna are great (and inexpensive) sources of
protein it really is hard to beat whey protein if you are
supplementing your protein intake. First of all whey protein is less
expensive than egg whites and it doesn't have the mercury issues that
tuna does. You don't even have to look around to get whey protein
that is less than $0.01 per gram of protein. Costco or WalMart both
have what you need.

Quoted message said:

This fixation with getting protein is not warranted by the
research.

There has been plenty of recent research on protein supplementation
before and after exercise that shows that whey protein is well worth
its tiny price.

Quoted message said:

It probably won't hurt you but it is a waste of money. Protein is
EASY to get in food...all you could possibly want, even for us
vegetarians. dkw

I agree that protein is fairly easy to get in real food sources.
However, whey protein is less expensive than almost all other high
quality protein sources, it is easy to take, and most whey protein
supplements even taste pretty good.

Whey protein *can* be a waste of money, but only if you insist on some
sort of designer brand.

Jason

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

All protein powders are [censored].

Then why does the research find so many benefits from whey compared to
other proteins? Effects on immunity, cancer, GSH, and others. For example:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=26

Quoted message said:

Stick with real food. Protein powders
will actually pull fat soluble vitamins right out of you.

Cite.

Quoted message said:

AND all of
them have some sort of synthetic sugar.

Your'e an idiot.

Quoted message said:

Eat liver! One of nature's
wonder foods. Vince Gironda knew a lot of stuff way before anybody
else!

Not really, but he sure thought he did.

Quoted message said:

Also, check out the folks at http://www.westonaprice.org -
really spot on for maximizing your health!

Actualy they are a bunch of nuts, but that's another issue.

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

<[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

All protein powders are [censored]. Stick with real food. Protein powders
will actually pull fat soluble vitamins right out of you. AND all of
them have some sort of synthetic sugar. Eat liver! One of nature's
wonder foods. Vince Gironda knew a lot of stuff way before anybody
else! Also, check out the folks at http://www.westonaprice.org -
really spot on for maximizing your health!

I love those potholders you folks make and am a big supporter of the Special
Olympics, so, ok, Corky, whatever you say. Here, have a cookie.

David

Tom Anderson said:

Prisoner at War said:

Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a company by a
bodybuilder

What? Whose advice? Whoever it is, stop taking their advice, because
they're an idiot.

Quoted message said:

But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe that there are
companies which sell rip-off protein powders, I've never heard a name
mentioned at all.

Possibly because guys on fora are mostly retarded bullshitters.

True. But, then again, so is "Prisoner at War" aka "NYC XYZ."

Of course, when most of MFW finally figures that out, he'll just come
up with a new username and start all over again.

Prisoner at War said:

Tom Anderson said:

Rip-off products in general, yes, but protein powder? The stuff is so
cheap for the manufacturers to buy that it doesn't seem worth it. I mean,
they'd have to find something cheaper to cut it with, and short of fly
ash, i can't think of anything!

Yes, whey protein does seem cheap these days -- surprised so many
college students are still living on ramen noodles! -- but that only
means the profits would be even greater for unscrupulous companies.

No it doesn't. It means exactly the opposite.

tom

--
Miscellaneous Terrorists: Ducks | Bird Flu | Avian flu | Jimbo Wales |
Backstreet Boys | The Al Queda Network | Tesco -- Uncyclopedia

JMW said:

Tom Anderson said:

Prisoner at War said:

Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a company by a
bodybuilder

What? Whose advice? Whoever it is, stop taking their advice, because
they're an idiot.

Quoted message said:

But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe that there are
companies which sell rip-off protein powders, I've never heard a name
mentioned at all.

Possibly because guys on fora are mostly retarded bullshitters.

True. But, then again, so is "Prisoner at War" aka "NYC XYZ."

Of course, when most of MFW finally figures that out, he'll just come up
with a new username and start all over again.

Shhh! I haven't had a good flamewar in ages.

tom

--
Miscellaneous Terrorists: Ducks | Bird Flu | Avian flu | Jimbo Wales |
Backstreet Boys | The Al Queda Network | Tesco -- Uncyclopedia

Let me try to go through this point by point with what I know or what
I think I know...

I generally define the best way of eating as to eat the foods with the
lowest profit margins and that spoil soon. These foods have more
nutrients per ounce. Whey protein is cheap as hell and the source of
it is from cows that aren't grass fed. Not grass fed means lower CLA
in the food source. I just saw a post on one of the groups today
citing this very fact. It was a study done in Europe. I didn't read it
thoroughly but got the gist of it. Also, whey protein or any low fat
protein source will rob Vitamin A (real Vitamin A not beta-carotene)
from the body as it processes the protein. I don't have a citation for
this, but can look it up. Here is an article on vit A and absorption
of protein: http://www.westonaprice.org/men/vitaminabodybuilding.html

The article which you wrote doesn't have any citations. Please provide
these and we can discuss further. Whey can be made at home far cheaper
than buying a powder. Don't know how? Get raw milk and make yogurt,
then drain the liquid. This would have to be the best whey ever!
Second best, use regular milk. Third best, buy yogurt.

Please name for me a whey protein that uses only brown sugar or even
regular sugar for sweetening and I'll happily endorse it.

Vince definitely was a character. He knew a lot. Not all. And I agree
that he sure thought he knew it all.

Not sure why you think the westonaprice folks are nuts. Please give me
an example as opposed to a general attack on them.

Tom
http://www.itspuresoap.com

(Will Brink) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

All protein powders are [censored].

Then why does the research find so many benefits from whey compared to
other proteins? Effects on immunity, cancer, GSH, and others. For example:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=26

Quoted message said:

Stick with real food. Protein powders
will actually pull fat soluble vitamins right out of you.

Cite.

Quoted message said:

AND all of
them have some sort of synthetic sugar.

Your'e an idiot.

Quoted message said:

Eat liver! One of nature's
wonder foods. Vince Gironda knew a lot of stuff way before anybody
else!

Not really, but he sure thought he did.

Quoted message said:

Also, check out the folks athttp://www.westonaprice.org-
really spot on for maximizing your health!

Actualy they are a bunch of nuts, but that's another issue.

--
Will @www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

In news:[email hidden],
[email hidden] <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Let me try to go through this point by point with what I know or what
I think I know...

Nail - head - hit!

[...]

Quoted message said:

Please name for me a whey protein that uses only brown sugar or even
regular sugar for sweetening and I'll happily endorse it.

What about wholemeal sugar? Isn't that even better than brown sugar?

Quoted message said:

Vince definitely was a character. He knew a lot.

You know this how?

[...]

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill

In news:[email hidden],
[email hidden] <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Prisoner at War said:

Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a company by a
bodybuilder -- Labrada, Dave Draper's Bomber Blend, Dorian Yates
Approved -- since these guys, presumably, wouldn't want to get a bad
reputation for shoddy products. (How about Gaspari Nutrition, then?
Or Bentacourt....)

But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe that there are
companies which sell rip-off protein powders, I've never heard a name
mentioned at all. So, which companies sell b.s. protein powders?
Which brand's protein mix is not really protein, or not the
advertised protein, etc.?

How's Supplement Direct? Odd I find very little said about them,
considering that they sell the absolute cheapest protein powder
anywhere! From what little research I was able to conduct, they seem
to be supplied -- despite their claims of manufacturing their own
stuff -- by a company called Proteint in MN, which supposedly has the
largest whey isolate facility in the whole world!

And, also, has Schwarzenegger ever done supplement endorsements
himself? I'm surprised he and best buddy Franco Columbu never went
into this business (I understand they were partners in some
construction company they had, which apparently afforded them all
those hours at the gym and all those steroids!)....

Better yet, don't buy protein supplements. If you want more protein
eat some nonfat egg whites at 3 gms per egg white.

Great, 60 egg whites a day then!

Quoted message said:

This makes them low
calorie as well. One body builder I know just eats some canned tuna
when he wants more protein.

BODYBUILDER EATS CANNED TUNA !!!

Quoted message said:

This fixation with getting protein is not
warranted by the research.

It's not? It's been working for me! Maybe the research is flawed eh?

Quoted message said:

It probably won't hurt you but it is a
waste of money.

Are you saying now NOT to eat the egg whites?

Quoted message said:

Protein is EASY to get in food...all you could
possibly want, even for us vegetarians. dkw

Really? How would you go about getting 180g per day then?

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Let me try to go through this point by point with what I know or what
I think I know...

I generally define the best way of eating as to eat the foods with the
lowest profit margins and that spoil soon. These foods have more
nutrients per ounce.

Proft margin has zero to do with nutrient density nor does how fast the
food spoils.

Quoted message said:

Whey protein is cheap as hell and the source of
it is from cows that aren't grass fed.

Some are some are not.

Quoted message said:

Not grass fed means lower CLA
in the food source.

Irrelevant and of no consequence to the topic at hand. You are rambling
this off in some attempt to make yourself appear educated on the topic
when you clearly are not.

Quoted message said:

I just saw a post on one of the groups today
citing this very fact.

You read it on another news group. Really showed me you did...

Quoted message said:

It was a study done in Europe. I didn't read it
thoroughly but got the gist of it. Also, whey protein or any low fat
protein source will rob Vitamin A (real Vitamin A not beta-carotene)
from the body as it processes the protein. I don't have a citation for
this, but can look it up.

Then do so, as it's total BS.

Quoted message said:

Here is an article on vit A and absorption
of protein: http://www.westonaprice.org/men/vitaminabodybuilding.html

A worthless source as weston price is worthless info for non science types
who are fooled by their BS and agendas. The article is also worthless.

Quoted message said:

The article which you wrote doesn't have any citations. Please provide
these and we can discuss further.

Formatting of the article is messed up for some reason. On another site:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag97/nov-report97.html

Others can be seen here:

Effects of one of the sub fractions found in whey not found in other proteins:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=99

Possible effects of whey on weight loss:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=11

Pretty much everything you need to know about whey:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=25

Those are just a sample BTW.

Quoted message said:

Whey can be made at home far cheaper
than buying a powder. Don't know how? Get raw milk and make yogurt,
then drain the liquid. This would have to be the best whey ever!
Second best, use regular milk. Third best, buy yogurt.

You're ignorant of the topic.

Quoted message said:

Please name for me a whey protein that uses only brown sugar or even
regular sugar for sweetening and I'll happily endorse it.

I dont care what you endorse. There are many non flavored whey products on
the market BTW. Your ignorance of whey is not my problem.

Quoted message said:

Vince definitely was a character. He knew a lot. Not all. And I agree
that he sure thought he knew it all.

I have no idea what you are talking about or who Vince is.

Quoted message said:

Not sure why you think the westonaprice folks are nuts. Please give me
an example as opposed to a general attack on them.

Their info is generally BS and that's easy enough to figure out by a
simple read of their material.

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural