pedal reflectors

"Adam Lea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know where I can obtain pedal reflectors for standard pedals?
Both LBS's in my area didn't have them and Wiggle don't either. As I
understand it it is a requirement for a bike to be fitted with amber pedal
reflectors at night (if manufactured after Oct 1985) but it seems odd that
is so difficult to get hold of something that is actually required by law.

Adam

To be honest, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. If you have suitable rear
lights and rear reflectors on your bike/mudguard you will be doing a lot
better than more than a few night time cyclists that I've encountered on the
roads recently.

I doubt that you'd have your collar felt by plod for not having reflectors
on your pedals.

"vernon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Adam Lea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know where I can obtain pedal reflectors for standard pedals?
Both LBS's in my area didn't have them and Wiggle don't either. As I
understand it it is a requirement for a bike to be fitted with amber
pedal reflectors at night (if manufactured after Oct 1985) but it seems
odd that is so difficult to get hold of something that is actually
required by law.

Adam

To be honest, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. If you have suitable rear
lights and rear reflectors on your bike/mudguard you will be doing a lot
better than more than a few night time cyclists that I've encountered on
the roads recently.

I doubt that you'd have your collar felt by plod for not having reflectors
on your pedals.

I do have reflective ankle bands (which stops the trouser legs from flapping
about) which should more than compensate for the lack of pedal reflectors,
but there are two things I am a little concerned about:

1. Awkward people criticising me for not being within the law.
2. In the unlikely event of an accident, could a defence lawyer claim
contributary negligence for not having the necessary legal reflectors?

"Adam Lea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"vernon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

1. Awkward people criticising me for not being within the law.
2. In the unlikely event of an accident, could a defence lawyer claim
contributary negligence for not having the necessary legal reflectors?

1 I doubt that many folk are that knowledgeable about the law regarding
reflectors. If comments about the lack of reflectors worry you, you are too
sensitive ;-)

2 Get a better lawyer than the defence's

In article <[email hidden]>, Adam Lea
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know where I can obtain pedal reflectors for standard pedals?
Both LBS's in my area didn't have them and Wiggle don't either.

I typed pedal-reflectors in Froogle and look what came up:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=4092&src=froogle

:-)

Quoted message said:

As I
understand it it is a requirement for a bike to be fitted with amber pedal
reflectors at night (if manufactured after Oct 1985) but it seems odd that
is so difficult to get hold of something that is actually required by law.

You understand it correctly. Your LBSs must be a bit [censored]. I doubt
that anyone has ever been nicked just for not having pedal reflectors.

"Adam Lea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"vernon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Adam Lea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know where I can obtain pedal reflectors for standard
pedals? Both LBS's in my area didn't have them and Wiggle don't either.
As I understand it it is a requirement for a bike to be fitted with
amber pedal reflectors at night (if manufactured after Oct 1985) but it
seems odd that is so difficult to get hold of something that is actually
required by law.

Adam

To be honest, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. If you have suitable rear
lights and rear reflectors on your bike/mudguard you will be doing a lot
better than more than a few night time cyclists that I've encountered on
the roads recently.

I doubt that you'd have your collar felt by plod for not having
reflectors on your pedals.

I do have reflective ankle bands (which stops the trouser legs from
flapping about) which should more than compensate for the lack of pedal
reflectors, but there are two things I am a little concerned about:

1. Awkward people criticising me for not being within the law.
2. In the unlikely event of an accident, could a defence lawyer claim
contributary negligence for not having the necessary legal reflectors?

Most third party pedals are unable to fit these reflectors.

We all like being within the law, but sometimes common sense overrules. Red
lights - law .. pavement cycling - not legal ... reflectors - just put a few
lights on, the law will catch up.

Adam Lea said:

Does anyone know where I can obtain pedal reflectors for standard pedals?
Both LBS's in my area didn't have them and Wiggle don't either. As I
understand it it is a requirement for a bike to be fitted with amber pedal
reflectors at night (if manufactured after Oct 1985) but it seems odd that
is so difficult to get hold of something that is actually required by law.

I've a feeling the requirement is that the bike is sold with pedal
reflectors, not that you must have then fitted. But I could be wrong.

From a practical point of view scotchlight ankle (and wrist) bands are
good.

Paul Rudin said:

Adam Lea said:

Does anyone know where I can obtain pedal reflectors for standard
pedals? Both LBS's in my area didn't have them and Wiggle don't
either. As I understand it it is a requirement for a bike to be
fitted with amber pedal reflectors at night (if manufactured after
Oct 1985) but it seems odd that is so difficult to get hold of
something that is actually required by law.

I've a feeling the requirement is that the bike is sold with pedal
reflectors, not that you must have then fitted. But I could be wrong.

You are wrong

( Bells are compulsory at point of sale, but can be removed immediately)

Quoted message said:

From a practical point of view scotchlight ankle (and wrist) bands are
good.

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

in message <[email hidden]>, vernon

(') said:

"Adam Lea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know where I can obtain pedal reflectors for standard
pedals? Both LBS's in my area didn't have them and Wiggle don't either.
As I understand it it is a requirement for a bike to be fitted with
amber pedal reflectors at night (if manufactured after Oct 1985) but it
seems odd that is so difficult to get hold of something that is actually
required by law.

Adam

To be honest, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. If you have suitable rear
lights and rear reflectors on your bike/mudguard you will be doing a lot
better than more than a few night time cyclists that I've encountered on
the roads recently.

I doubt that you'd have your collar felt by plod for not having
reflectors on your pedals.

I don't think this is a 'collar felt' issue, I think it's a safety issue.
What a cyclist needs, especially at night, especially in a cluttered road
scene with lots of lights, is to be identified as a cyclist. A motorist
who just sees a tail light may assume you're moving much faster than you
are and may also assume you're much further away than you are.

Pedal reflectors are exceedingly diagnostic. The way they move says 'bike'
to even the doziest motorist, and the amplitude of the movement gives an
indication of scale and thus of distance.

Of cleated pedals, Time ATAC Aliums certainly used to come with
(detachable) reflectors - the ones on my utility bike have them.
Campagnolo ProFit pedals are designed to allow a special reflector to be
attached (part PD-RE 108), but I've never seen the reflectors on sale.
Shimano M324s should fit conventional pedal reflectors.

Gearshift sell reflectors for two quid the set:
http://www.gearshift.co.uk/acatalog/Gearshift_Pedals_141.html

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn.
;; Jim Morrison

In article said:

I don't think this is a 'collar felt' issue, I think it's a safety issue.
What a cyclist needs, especially at night, especially in a cluttered road
scene with lots of lights, is to be identified as a cyclist. A motorist
who just sees a tail light may assume you're moving much faster than you
are and may also assume you're much further away than you are.

Pedal reflectors are exceedingly diagnostic. The way they move says 'bike'
to even the doziest motorist, and the amplitude of the movement gives an
indication of scale and thus of distance.

But he's since said he uses reflective ankle bands, which do that
equally well. There's something to be said for having reflectors
bolted to the pedal which you can't possibly forget and which work with
shorts (and I did buy some for my Shimano 323's, from an LBS which has
since stopped stocking them), but I don't think they are essential.

Simon Brooke said:

I don't think this is a 'collar felt' issue, I think it's a safety issue.

Quoted message said:

Gearshift sell reflectors for two quid the set:http://www.gearshift.co.uk/acatalog/Gearshift_Pedals_141.html

Interestingly if you follow the Gearshift link they suggest it could
be a 'collar felt' isssue.

--
Dave...

Alan Braggins said:

Quoted message said:

Pedal reflectors are exceedingly diagnostic. The way they move says 'bike'
to even the doziest motorist, and the amplitude of the movement gives an
indication of scale and thus of distance.

Strips of reflective material along the crank edges would probably be
equally effective and perhaps close enough to the pedal to satisfy all
but the letter of the law.

I believe the 3M material is made of corner reflectors so should still
work at an angle. For most of the crank circle there would be more
reflective area visible than on a pedal, and the foreshortening effect
would make the reflectors appear to flash as well as move up and
down.

I think it would work on a 'bent too, at least from the front view.

-adrian

Adam Lea said:

Does anyone know where I can obtain pedal reflectors for standard pedals?
Both LBS's in my area didn't have them and Wiggle don't either. As I
understand it it is a requirement for a bike to be fitted with amber pedal
reflectors at night (if manufactured after Oct 1985) but it seems odd that
is so difficult to get hold of something that is actually required by law.

Have a look on the floor in bike sheds and areas where lots of bikes
are parked. There are often pedal reflectors that have dropped off
lying around which you can collect and attach. The plastic wrap-around
reflector holders for my M545 pedals regularly shed their reflector
inserts and this is how I replace them.

Regards,

-david

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, vernon
([email hidden]'😉 wrote:

Gearshift sell reflectors for two quid the set:
http://www.gearshift.co.uk/acatalog/Gearshift_Pedals_141.html

--

and £3.36 for the postage. I think I'll have a look around some of the
London bike shops next time I am there.

Adrian Godwin said:

Strips of reflective material along the crank edges would probably be
equally effective and perhaps close enough to the pedal to satisfy all
but the letter of the law.

That's what I have - narrow strip of reflective on the rear side of the
crank arms. Same stuff as used on panda cars.

I've never had the chance to follow myself at night in a car (which
would present quite a challenge to the laws of physics) so I cant say
for sure, but I think these are quite effective.

elyob said:

We all like being within the law, but sometimes common sense overrules. Red
lights - law .. pavement cycling - not legal ... reflectors - just put a few
lights on, the law will catch up.

No it wont.

This has been the law since 1987. It isn't changing. It was a problem
then already for some cyclists to comply and has only gotten worse
since. The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations have been revised twice
since then. Both times CTC has argued for the front pedal reflector
requirement (no proven benefit) to be deleted and for either an extra
rear lamp or reflector, ankle bands etc. to be considered as an
alternative for the rear requirement. Trouble is that all the rest of
the British cycling scene is either in denial over this, or doesn't
care, or just waiting for little old CTC to sort it out for them, so
we or rather I am a lone voice.

In response to that lone voice, DfT point out that they've compelled
manufacturers to fit pedal reflectors to all new complete bicycles
sold since 1983, so obviously there cannot be a problem. Yes they are
in denial too, ignoring the fact that a lot of nice bikes are sold
without pedals (thus are not complete pedal cycles, thus evading
entirely the relevant sales regulation) and that the token
reflectorised pedals on many other nice bikes are promptly swapped for
something better without.

If you guys want to be legal you've got to get your heads out of the
sand and start making a fuss!

Trouble is, pedal reflectors are actually rather effective. In a study
by TRRL that led to this law in the first place, it was found that
whilst a rear cycle lamp provided the most distant warning to a
following motorist that there was something up the road ahead, amongst
the many and varied cyclist conspicuity aids available to cyclists
that were studied, pedal reflectors easily provided the most distant
identification that this "something" was a cyclist. So what we
probably need before DfT will accept an alternative, is a standardised
test for the performance of reflective ankle bands, patched on heels
of shoes etc. On the other hand there were on flashing lights when
TRRL did that study, and I've a hunch that since a pedal cycle is the
only vehicle allowed a flashing red light, that would nowadays
probably do an even better identification job.

So that's how it is. Now go write to your MPs about it, not here, it
changes nothing!

(Alan Braggins) said:

In article said:

I don't think this is a 'collar felt' issue, I think it's a safety issue.
What a cyclist needs, especially at night, especially in a cluttered road
scene with lots of lights, is to be identified as a cyclist. A motorist
who just sees a tail light may assume you're moving much faster than you
are and may also assume you're much further away than you are.

Quoted message said:

Pedal reflectors are exceedingly diagnostic. The way they move says 'bike'
to even the doziest motorist, and the amplitude of the movement gives an
indication of scale and thus of distance.

But he's since said he uses reflective ankle bands, which do that
equally well. There's something to be said for having reflectors
bolted to the pedal which you can't possibly forget and which work with
shorts (and I did buy some for my Shimano 323's, from an LBS which has
since stopped stocking them), but I don't think they are essential.

When driving a car I have found that pedal reflectors are
ASTONISHINGLY
noticeable. On my bike they are the most critical part of my
night visibility kit. I doubt that there is the slightest chance of
being charged with not having them in a reasonable lifetime and
in any case it will be a small fine if you were convicted.

The strange twinkling that they do in the _bright_ part of the dipped
headlight
beam seems to get noticed by me. Ankle thingies may be better, may be
worse, may be the same : -) but I haven't noticed them in the same
way.

CJ said:

So that's how it is. Now go write to your MPs about it, not here, it
changes nothing!

Been there seen that got the T shirt. Now if the CTC could coordinate
this that might help.

However my pedals (Campag profit) have reflectors made for them but
getting them imported to the UK seems to be impossible. If the CTC shop
were to stock them that would be a step in the right direction for those
of us who want to be within the law but also want decent pedals. If
anyone knows a shop that stocks them I would love to know as my last
pair have broken and good though they are you have to treat them as if
they are consumables for me they last about 2 years.

That would be the kind of service to members that the CTC shop should
provide.

--chris

[email hidden] said the following on 18/07/2007 11:12:

Quoted message said:

When driving a car I have found that pedal reflectors are
ASTONISHINGLY noticeable.

I don't think anyone can deny how effective they can be, but they are
just so impractical long term! They are mounted on the pedals
(obviously) so are prone to being kicked, knocked, dropping out and
that's even before you mention off-road bikes, where a set of pedal
reflectors lasted precisely one circuit of the MBR trail. Possibly less
because I don't know when I finally lost the last one!

Others have mentioned the impossibility or difficulty on getting them to
fit the sort of pedals we like. I compromise by making sure that when I
buy cycling shoes they have one of those Scotchlite reflective patches
in the heel. That'll have to do, and if by some freak chance I end up
in court over it, at least I'm showing willing to comply with the law
:-) I'm not losing sleep over it though...

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

in message <[email hidden]>, CJ

(') said:

This has been the law since 1987. It isn't changing. It was a problem
then already for some cyclists to comply and has only gotten worse
since. The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations have been revised twice
since then. Both times CTC has argued for the front pedal reflector
requirement (no proven benefit) to be deleted and for either an extra
rear lamp or reflector, ankle bands etc. to be considered as an
alternative for the rear requirement. Trouble is that all the rest of
the British cycling scene is either in denial over this, or doesn't
care, or just waiting for little old CTC to sort it out for them, so
we or rather I am a lone voice.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

If you guys want to be legal you've got to get your heads out of the
sand and start making a fuss!

OK, hang on.

Pedal reflectors are only required when riding on the public road after
lighting up time. During the day, it is legal to ride without them; and
off road, it is always legal to ride without them. Most bikes used
for 'liesure' cycling are never out on the public road after lighting up
time, and that includes all serious mountain bikes and the vast majority
of serious race bikes. So it's perfectly legal and appropriate for these
bikes to be fitted with reflectorless pedals.

And on the road at night, pedal reflectors are exceedingly effective, so
the legal requirement to have them isn't stupid. For those (relatively
few) riders who ride seriously at night and require reflector pedals,
there are clipless pedals to which reflectors can be attached, as I've
documented. So that isn't a problem either.

The problem is for bikes such as recumbents, where, because of the
architecture of the bike, the pedals cannot, as the law requires, be seen
from behind. And I think the law ought to be changed /for/ /recumbents/,
since it's foolish to ban a whole category of bikes from being used at
night.

But I'm not at all convinced that any change in the law is needed for
conventional upright bikes. You ought to have pedal reflectors if you ride
on the road at night, whether or not the law says so. And there is no
practical reason preventing you.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Sending your money to someone just because they've erected
;; a barrier of obscurity and secrets around the tools you
;; need to use your data does not help the economy or spur
;; innovation. - Waffle Iron Slashdot, June 16th, 2002