frame materials

censored Ryan aka The Godfather said:

Does the frame material have anything to do with performance? Trek's
advertisement for one of their road bikes says that the carbon fork
soaks up vibration. Exactly how does it do that? As far as I can see
the material the fork is made of can have no influence on vibration.
The fork/handlebar assembly is for all practical purposes a solid
unit. Road shock and vibration is transmitted directly from the wheel
to the handlebar. Same should apply to the rear triangle, a rigid
structure that cannot "soak up" vibration. Basically the only factor
effecting vibration is tire pressure. A bicycle frame is a very
simple structure comprised of two triangles.

Even bicycles like this:
<http://ryanownersclub.com/scrapbook/vanguard/titaniumvanguard.jpg>?
Seems to violate several of the above contentions, does it not? 😉

Quoted message said:

It, for all practical
purposes hasn't changed in 100 years except for the availability of
better materials that allow lighter frames to be built and more
sophisticated manufacturing methods. I doubt that there is any
difference in performance between frames made of various materials.

What about the concept of rotating the rider's body position backwards
by 90° or so?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

In article <[email hidden]>,

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

It, for all practical
purposes hasn't changed in 100 years except for the availability of
better materials that allow lighter frames to be built and more
sophisticated manufacturing methods. I doubt that there is any
difference in performance between frames made of various materials.

What about the concept of rotating the rider's body position backwards
by 90° or so?

Yeah, wheelies are fun too :-) :-)

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Quoted message said:

Does the frame material have anything to do with performance? Trek's
advertisement for one of their road bikes says that the carbon fork
soaks up vibration. Exactly how does it do that? I doubt that there is any
difference in performance between frames made of various materials.

Material hardness, stiffness, and resonance.

The simplest test is to ride two Specialized Sirrus bikes of identical
size. The lower model has a cromoloy fork and rear triangle. The upper
model has carbon fork and triangle.

Another test is to try two different seatposts on the same bike with a
rock-hard seat. One carbon, one aluminum.

Or - have you ever seen a tuning fork made from carbon? It wouldn't
sound very clear, if at all.

If you alter your idea of vibration to include higher frequencies,
those are soaked up quite differently from material to material.

bryanska said:

Quoted message said:

Does the frame material have anything to do with performance? Trek's
advertisement for one of their road bikes says that the carbon fork
soaks up vibration. Exactly how does it do that? I doubt that there is any
difference in performance between frames made of various materials.

Material hardness, stiffness, and resonance.

The simplest test is to ride two Specialized Sirrus bikes of identical
size. The lower model has a cromoloy fork and rear triangle. The upper
model has carbon fork and triangle.

Another test is to try two different seatposts on the same bike with a
rock-hard seat. One carbon, one aluminum.

Or - have you ever seen a tuning fork made from carbon? It wouldn't
sound very clear, if at all.

If you alter your idea of vibration to include higher frequencies,
those are soaked up quite differently from material to material.

If you are saying the a CFRP frame *sounds* different than a steel or
aluminum frame, you are exactly correct.

Not a bicycle. So not relevent. Bonk

Kurd (who?) anonymously snipes:

Quoted message said:

Not a bicycle. So not relevent. Bonk

First point of order is context, or in this case the lack thereof.

Second point of order; if it has two wheels in a single track and is
pedal powered, it is a bicycle.

Third point of order; it is spelled "relevant".

Fourth point of order; if you are bonking [1], you need to change your
food intake habits.

[1] US, not UK, usage.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Not a bike, nor have they been bikes since 1933.

Best thing the UCI ever did.

Kurd (who?) anonymously wrote:

Dude, ever hear of context?

Quoted message said:

Not a bike, nor have they [recumbents] been bikes since 1933.

INDEFINITE PRONOUN ALERT!

I believe "Kurd" means April 1, 1933.

Quoted message said:

Best thing the UCI ever did.

The UCI only defines what a bicycle is for the purposes of the
professional racing series they sanction. The UCI is not the arbiter of
language in any country. Duh!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does the frame material have anything to do with performance? Trek's
advertisement for one of their road bikes says that the carbon fork
soaks up vibration. Exactly how does it do that? As far as I can see
the material the fork is made of can have no influence on vibration.
The fork/handlebar assembly is for all practical purposes a solid
unit. Road shock and vibration is transmitted directly from the wheel
to the handlebar. Same should apply to the rear triangle, a rigid
structure that cannot "soak up" vibration. Basically the only factor
effecting vibration is tire pressure. A bicycle frame is a very
simple structure comprised of two triangles. It, for all practical
purposes hasn't changed in 100 years except for the availability of
better materials that allow lighter frames to be built and more
sophisticated manufacturing methods. I doubt that there is any
difference in performance between frames made of various materials.

[censored] Ryan

You obviously have not been to the new Trek Madone ("everything else is
history"😉 web site. If you are more interested in seemingly endless
discussions about frame materials rather than marketing hype, try searching
rec.bicycles.misc on google groups. If you are trolling, I hope you enjoy
the rest of this thread.

everything else is history:
http://www2.trekbikes.com/madone/

seemingly endless discussion:
http://tinyurl.com/2jbljz

BobT

Bob Taylor said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does the frame material have anything to do with performance? Trek's
advertisement for one of their road bikes says that the carbon fork
soaks up vibration. Exactly how does it do that? As far as I can see
the material the fork is made of can have no influence on vibration.
The fork/handlebar assembly is for all practical purposes a solid
unit. Road shock and vibration is transmitted directly from the wheel
to the handlebar. Same should apply to the rear triangle, a rigid
structure that cannot "soak up" vibration. Basically the only factor
effecting vibration is tire pressure. A bicycle frame is a very
simple structure comprised of two triangles. It, for all practical
purposes hasn't changed in 100 years except for the availability of
better materials that allow lighter frames to be built and more
sophisticated manufacturing methods. I doubt that there is any
difference in performance between frames made of various materials.

[censored] Ryan

You obviously have not been to the new Trek Madone ("everything else is
history"😉 web site. If you are more interested in seemingly endless
discussions about frame materials rather than marketing hype, try searching
rec.bicycles.misc on google groups....

I would think there are more frame material discussion in
rec.bicycles.tech than in rec.bicycles.misc.

Quoted message said:

If you are trolling, I hope you enjoy the rest of this thread.

Maybe Mr. Ryan wants to be in the vanguard (pun intended) of bicycle
design once more.

Quoted message said:

everything else is history:
http://www2.trekbikes.com/madone/

The Trek MadOne is just another conventional diamond frame upright (as
it has to be to meet UCI regulations).

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

In article <[email hidden]>,

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

Kurd (who?) anonymously wrote:

Dude, ever hear of context?

Quoted message said:

Not a bike, nor have they [recumbents] been bikes since 1933.

INDEFINITE PRONOUN ALERT!

I believe "Kurd" means April 1, 1933.

Quoted message said:

Best thing the UCI ever did.

The UCI only defines what a bicycle is for the purposes of the
professional racing series they sanction. The UCI is not the arbiter of
language in any country. Duh!

Huh?

I can't hear either of you -- I have all these
Bo Diddley tunes blasting into my ears.

Okay, it's off now. Except I'm gonna have
a bunch of Roger Waters tunes blasting in my
ears pretty soon -- Radio KAOS.

"Who needs information
when you're working underground ... "

There's a trick to not letting your goat be gotten.

You know that.

cheers,
Tom

--
"Icy wind of night begone,
this is not your domain,"
in the sky a bird was heard to cry.

Hear the lark and harken to the barking
of the dog fox
gone to ground.

See the splashing of the kingfisher flashing
to the water.

And a river of green is sliding unseen
beneath the trees,

laughing as it passes through the
endless summer,
making for the sea.

Tom Keats said:

There's a trick to not letting your goat be gotten.

It's a well-known fact that it's trivially easy to obtain goats from
recumbent riders. Heck, just *mention* a diamond-frame upright and you'll
be *buried* in the goats of 'bent riders.

--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

Kurd (who?) anonymously wrote:

Dude, ever hear of context?

Quoted message said:

Not a bike, nor have they [recumbents] been bikes since 1933.

INDEFINITE PRONOUN ALERT!

I believe "Kurd" means April 1, 1933.

Quoted message said:

Best thing the UCI ever did.

The UCI only defines what a bicycle is for the purposes of the
professional racing series they sanction. The UCI is not the arbiter of
language in any country. Duh!

Huh?

I can't hear either of you -- I have all these
Bo Diddley tunes blasting into my ears.

Okay, it's off now. Except I'm gonna have
a bunch of Roger Waters tunes blasting in my
ears pretty soon -- Radio KAOS.

"Who needs information
when you're working underground ... "

There's a trick to not letting your goat be gotten.

You know that.

butbutbut [1], I ENJOY arguing on Usenet!

[1] gratuitous gdanielsism

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Luigi de Guzman said:

Tom Keats said:

There's a trick to not letting your goat be gotten.

It's a well-known fact that it's trivially easy to obtain goats from
recumbent riders. Heck, just *mention* a diamond-frame upright and you'll
be *buried* in the goats of 'bent riders.

Useful knowledge that. One of my coworkers does a *fantastic* goat
biryani. I just went to the bike shop and assisted him with a bike
selection. Maybe I can see if he has any got related plans in the
future. Of course he also does a mean Mango Pudding.

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
"A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally."
-Oscar Wilde

Dane Buson said:

Useful knowledge that. One of my coworkers does a *fantastic* goat
biryani. I just went to the bike shop and assisted him with a bike
selection. Maybe I can see if he has any got related plans in the
future. Of course he also does a mean Mango Pudding.

The delicious irony in all of this is that Shimano's group for
small-wheeled bicycles (mainly folders and recumbents) is named
CAPREO--which looks suspiciously like the Latin word for "goat," (/caper/).

But that irony is not nearly as delicious as a good goat biryani, or the
kalderetang kambing a friend of the family's can make. YUM.

-Luigi
replacing the calories he expended in today's ride.

--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

Quoted message said:

If you are saying the a CFRP frame *sounds* different than a steel or
aluminum frame, you are exactly correct.- Hide quoted text -

No, I am confident in saying it's a different molecular structure and
thus a pretty darn different thing altogether.