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Worst Tour coverage ever

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7 July 2007
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  1. This year's France Television coverage is the worst I've ever seen
    there, and it even rivals the old ESPN coverage with John Tesch music.
    In particular, Thevenet, who was the most knowledgeable and precise
    colour commentator I've heard is totally gone and his replacement,
    Laurent Jalabert, who was not too bad, has been superseded by Laurent
    Fignon. It is hard for me to listen to Fignon for more than 5
    seconds without thinking "loser", especially when he was criticising
    Moreau's position as not being aerodynamic. To make things worse, his
    memory is poor, e.g., when he referred to the extremely bad TT
    position of that "Russian" and the co-commentator went through the
    list of Russians, each of which was negative, until he figured out
    that he meant Popovych, who is actually Ukranian. Apart from that, he
    is fond of making stupid jokes which aren't funny.

    The production is also amazingly poor. For example, they featured
    Wiggins' ride by also showing his DS yelling into his walkie talkie,
    and minizing these two images to a fraction of the screen size. For
    this reason, it was impossible to see his intermediate and finish
    times unless you had HDTV. They used the same function during
    Cancellara's ride, as they wanted to show Millar's face during his
    post race interview.

    My other observations of the race are:

    1. It seemed that the bike size and weight check was done literally 5
    minutes before the start. I saw Millar being measured by UCI officials
    5 minutes before his start. Same for Vinokourov. That doesn't seem to
    give much time to rectify a problem.

    2. Sylvain Chavanel actually drank from his water bottle during the
    race. In fact, this seems to strange for a 9 minute race that I might
    actually have to find it again to make sure I didn't imagine it.

    -ilan

  2. Quoted message said:

    This year's France Television coverage is the worst I've ever seen
    there, and it even rivals the old ESPN coverage with John Tesch music.
    In particular, Thevenet, who was the most knowledgeable and precise
    colour commentator I've heard is totally gone and his replacement,
    Laurent Jalabert, who was not too bad, has been superseded by Laurent
    Fignon. It is hard for me to listen to Fignon for more than 5
    seconds without thinking "loser", especially when he was criticising
    Moreau's position as not being aerodynamic. To make things worse, his
    memory is poor, e.g., when he referred to the extremely bad TT
    position of that "Russian" and the co-commentator went through the
    list of Russians, each of which was negative, until he figured out
    that he meant Popovych, who is actually Ukranian. Apart from that, he
    is fond of making stupid jokes which aren't funny.

    The production is also amazingly poor. For example, they featured
    Wiggins' ride by also showing his DS yelling into his walkie talkie,
    and minizing these two images to a fraction of the screen size. For
    this reason, it was impossible to see his intermediate and finish
    times unless you had HDTV. They used the same function during
    Cancellara's ride, as they wanted to show Millar's face during his
    post race interview.

    My other observations of the race are:

    1. It seemed that the bike size and weight check was done literally 5
    minutes before the start. I saw Millar being measured by UCI officials
    5 minutes before his start. Same for Vinokourov. That doesn't seem to
    give much time to rectify a problem.

    2. Sylvain Chavanel actually drank from his water bottle during the
    race. In fact, this seems to strange for a 9 minute race that I might
    actually have to find it again to make sure I didn't imagine it.

    -ilan

    Fignon criticizing someone's aerodynamics in a TT? That's a good one.

    Joseph

  3. Quoted message said:


    2. Sylvain Chavanel actually drank from his water bottle during the
    race. In fact, this seems to strange for a 9 minute race that I might
    actually have to find it again to make sure I didn't imagine it.

    Dumbass -

    He is French.

    Why do you expect any different?

    thanks,

    K. Gringioni.

  4. Quoted message said:

    1. It seemed that the bike size and weight check was done literally 5
    minutes before the start. I saw Millar being measured by UCI officials
    5 minutes before his start. Same for Vinokourov. That doesn't seem to
    give much time to rectify a problem.

    dumbass,

    it's customary that riders have the opportunity to have their bike
    checked in advance but usually at (UCI) TTs there is some type of
    corral where you enter and your bike is officially checked just before
    the start. that way you can't pass a legal bike and then make changes
    before riding.

  5. Quoted message said:

    The production is also amazingly poor. For example, they featured
    Wiggins' ride by also showing his DS yelling into his walkie talkie,
    and minizing these two images to a fraction of the screen size. For
    this reason, it was impossible to see his intermediate and finish
    times unless you had HDTV.

    The sad part is that while it is being shot in HDTV, no one is
    broadcasting it in HDTV...

    Watch it on TSR2, great comments by Bertrand Dubout and 16/9 format.
    Eurosport with spotted [censored] and durand is pretty good too.

    Quoted message said:

    They used the same function during
    Cancellara's ride, as they wanted to show Millar's face during his
    post race interview.

  6. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    This year's France Television coverage is the worst I've ever seen
    there, and it even rivals the old ESPN coverage with John Tesch music.
    In particular, Thevenet, who was the most knowledgeable and precise
    colour commentator I've heard is totally gone and his replacement,
    Laurent Jalabert, who was not too bad, has been superseded by Laurent
    Fignon. It is hard for me to listen to Fignon for more than 5
    seconds without thinking "loser", especially when he was criticising
    Moreau's position as not being aerodynamic. To make things worse, his
    memory is poor, e.g., when he referred to the extremely bad TT
    position of that "Russian" and the co-commentator went through the
    list of Russians, each of which was negative, until he figured out
    that he meant Popovych, who is actually Ukranian. Apart from that, he
    is fond of making stupid jokes which aren't funny.

    The production is also amazingly poor. For example, they featured
    Wiggins' ride by also showing his DS yelling into his walkie talkie,
    and minizing these two images to a fraction of the screen size. For
    this reason, it was impossible to see his intermediate and finish
    times unless you had HDTV. They used the same function during
    Cancellara's ride, as they wanted to show Millar's face during his
    post race interview.

    My other observations of the race are:

    1. It seemed that the bike size and weight check was done literally 5
    minutes before the start. I saw Millar being measured by UCI officials
    5 minutes before his start. Same for Vinokourov. That doesn't seem to
    give much time to rectify a problem.

    Well...I don't know what the usual way of checking the bikes is, but
    first, the teams all have spare bikes of one sort or another, and
    second, it should be a firing offense for a mechanic to bring up a bike
    that didn't meet the weight and dimensional requirements.

    I mean, these guys have all had their TT bikes set up days (if not
    months) ahead of time. The measurements are all in the technical
    regulations, and the official check should be nothing more than a proper
    formality.

    Quoted message said:

    2. Sylvain Chavanel actually drank from his water bottle during the
    race. In fact, this seems to strange for a 9 minute race that I might
    actually have to find it again to make sure I didn't imagine it.

    And he finished 19th! I'm thinking I should drink from my bottle, too.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

  7. On Jul 8, 1:23 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    1. It seemed that the bike size and weight check was done literally 5
    minutes before the start. I saw Millar being measured by UCI officials
    5 minutes before his start. Same for Vinokourov. That doesn't seem to
    give much time to rectify a problem.

    dumbass,

    it's customary that riders have the opportunity to have their bike
    checked in advance but usually at (UCI) TTs there is some type of
    corral where you enter and your bike is officially checked just before
    the start. that way you can't pass a legal bike and then make changes
    before riding.

    For the Alpe d'Huez ITT, many riders had to continually fix up their
    bikes because of weight < 6.8 kg, and the delay was certainly much
    greater than 5 minutes.

    -ilan

  8. email hidden said:

    Fignon criticizing someone's aerodynamics in a TT? That's a good one.

    I thought he had a very good to great TT position himself - from
    Guimard's work in wind tunnels. Through the end of the 1980s he rode
    the second or third fastest TT every in Tour of France history. Plus
    he won the Grand Prix des Nations TT at least once.
    --
    JT
    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  9. On Jul 8, 2:47 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:20:24 -0700, "[email hidden]"

    Quoted message said:

    Fignon criticizing someone's aerodynamics in a TT? That's a good one.

    I thought he had a very good to great TT position himself - from
    Guimard's work in wind tunnels. Through the end of the 1980s he rode
    the second or third fastest TT every in Tour of France history. Plus
    he won the Grand Prix des Nations TT at least once.

    No doubt he was great, but that is the price he pays in my book for
    losing the TdF with the smallest margin ever due to his less than
    perfect aerodynamics. That's the way is always seems to go. A career
    of great accomplishments is near forgotten in the shadow of one
    mistake.

    Joseph

  10. email hidden said:

    On Jul 8, 2:47 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:20:24 -0700, "[email hidden]"

    Quoted message said:

    Fignon criticizing someone's aerodynamics in a TT? That's a good one.

    I thought he had a very good to great TT position himself - from
    Guimard's work in wind tunnels. Through the end of the 1980s he rode
    the second or third fastest TT every in Tour of France history. Plus
    he won the Grand Prix des Nations TT at least once.

    No doubt he was great, but that is the price he pays in my book for
    losing the TdF with the smallest margin ever due to his less than
    perfect aerodynamics. That's the way is always seems to go. A career
    of great accomplishments is near forgotten in the shadow of one
    mistake.

    So you're buying into that flawed view and perpetuating it...
    --
    JT
    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  11. On Jul 8, 12:38 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 01:10:15 -0700, "[email hidden]"

    Quoted message said:

    On Jul 8, 2:47 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:20:24 -0700, "[email hidden]"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >Fignon criticizing someone's aerodynamics in a TT? That's a good one.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I thought he had a very good to great TT position himself - from
    Guimard's work in wind tunnels. Through the end of the 1980s he rode
    the second or third fastest TT every in Tour of France history. Plus
    he won the Grand Prix des Nations TT at least once.

    Quoted message said:

    No doubt he was great, but that is the price he pays in my book for
    losing the TdF with the smallest margin ever due to his less than
    perfect aerodynamics. That's the way is always seems to go. A career
    of great accomplishments is near forgotten in the shadow of one
    mistake.

    So you're buying into that flawed view and perpetuating it...

    The view that he lost due to less than optimal aerodynamics? I do
    believe that. Of course hindsight is 20/20 and it's easy for me to say
    it was not optimal so that doesn't really take anything away from his
    performance. I don't actually fault him for that but it is still true.
    And as you say he was one of the fastest TT riders in TdF history, but
    what is remembered for the most part about him and TT's is that he
    lost, cruel as that may be.

    Joseph

  12. email hidden said:

    On Jul 8, 12:38 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 01:10:15 -0700, "[email hidden]"

    Quoted message said:

    On Jul 8, 2:47 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>
    wrote:
    > On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:20:24 -0700, "[email hidden]"

    Quoted message said:

    > <[email hidden]> wrote:
    > >Fignon criticizing someone's aerodynamics in a TT? That's a good one.

    Quoted message said:

    > I thought he had a very good to great TT position himself - from
    > Guimard's work in wind tunnels. Through the end of the 1980s he rode
    > the second or third fastest TT every in Tour of France history. Plus
    > he won the Grand Prix des Nations TT at least once.

    Quoted message said:

    No doubt he was great, but that is the price he pays in my book for
    losing the TdF with the smallest margin ever due to his less than
    perfect aerodynamics. That's the way is always seems to go. A career
    of great accomplishments is near forgotten in the shadow of one
    mistake.

    So you're buying into that flawed view and perpetuating it...

    The view that he lost due to less than optimal aerodynamics? I do
    believe that.

    The guy had superb aerodynamics but worse than one or two other guys.
    He schooled people in TTs due to fitness, position and motivation. He
    won two Tours of France and one TOur of Italy. And yet it's somehow
    funny that he can criticise another riders position because he was
    beaten in one race!
    --
    JT
    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  13. On Jul 8, 1:27 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 04:17:39 -0700, "[email hidden]"

    Quoted message said:

    On Jul 8, 12:38 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 01:10:15 -0700, "[email hidden]"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >On Jul 8, 2:47 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>
    >wrote:
    >> On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:20:24 -0700, "[email hidden]"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >> >Fignon criticizing someone's aerodynamics in a TT? That's a good one.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> I thought he had a very good to great TT position himself - from
    >> Guimard's work in wind tunnels. Through the end of the 1980s he rode
    >> the second or third fastest TT every in Tour of France history. Plus
    >> he won the Grand Prix des Nations TT at least once.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >No doubt he was great, but that is the price he pays in my book for
    >losing the TdF with the smallest margin ever due to his less than
    >perfect aerodynamics. That's the way is always seems to go. A career
    >of great accomplishments is near forgotten in the shadow of one
    >mistake.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    So you're buying into that flawed view and perpetuating it...

    Quoted message said:

    The view that he lost due to less than optimal aerodynamics? I do
    believe that.

    The guy had superb aerodynamics but worse than one or two other guys.
    He schooled people in TTs due to fitness, position and motivation. He
    won two Tours of France and one TOur of Italy. And yet it's somehow
    funny that he can criticise another riders position because he was
    beaten in one race!
    --
    JT
    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

    He's pronouncing David Millar's last name "miar", as in "Maillard",
    because 2 L's preceded by an "i" are often silent in French.

    -ilan

  14. Quoted message said:

    This year's France Television coverage is the worst I've ever seen
    there, and it even rivals the old ESPN coverage with John Tesch music.
    In particular, Thevenet, who was the most knowledgeable and precise
    colour commentator I've heard is totally gone and his replacement,
    Laurent Jalabert, who was not too bad, has been superseded by Laurent
    Fignon. It is hard for me to listen to Fignon for more than 5
    seconds without thinking "loser", especially when he was criticising
    Moreau's position as not being aerodynamic. To make things worse, his
    memory is poor, e.g., when he referred to the extremely bad TT
    position of that "Russian" and the co-commentator went through the
    list of Russians, each of which was negative, until he figured out
    that he meant Popovych, who is actually Ukranian. Apart from that, he
    is fond of making stupid jokes which aren't funny.

    The production is also amazingly poor. For example, they featured
    Wiggins' ride by also showing his DS yelling into his walkie talkie,
    and minizing these two images to a fraction of the screen size. For
    this reason, it was impossible to see his intermediate and finish
    times unless you had HDTV. They used the same function during
    Cancellara's ride, as they wanted to show Millar's face during his
    post race interview.

    My other observations of the race are:

    1. It seemed that the bike size and weight check was done literally 5
    minutes before the start. I saw Millar being measured by UCI officials
    5 minutes before his start. Same for Vinokourov. That doesn't seem to
    give much time to rectify a problem.

    2. Sylvain Chavanel actually drank from his water bottle during the
    race. In fact, this seems to strange for a 9 minute race that I might
    actually have to find it again to make sure I didn't imagine it.

    -ilan

    There is similar criticism of Fignon as well as requests for the
    return of Thevenet on France 2's forum (subject heading "Fignon,
    enough!"😉: http://forums.france2.fr/france2/cyclisme/fignon-suffit-sujet_3836_1.htm
    Someone there explains that Thevenet has been hired by ASO for public
    relations. France TV's main commentator Thierry Adam has made such an
    impression that no one on this forum realises he has replaced last
    year's commentator Henri Sannier.

    -ilan

    -ilan

  15. Keith a écrit :

    Quoted message said:


    The sad part is that while it is being shot in HDTV, no one is
    broadcasting it in HDTV...

    You're wrong,it's broadcasted in HDTV by Orange internetTV provider and
    by DTV in the areas of Paris, Lyon and Marseille :-)

    --
    Cliquez ci-dessous pour me répondre
    http://cerbermail.com/?1fvv7WnbXL

  16. Quoted message said:

    This year's France Television coverage is the worst I've ever seen
    there [...] It is hard for me to listen to Fignon for more than 5
    seconds

    I'll see your Fignon and raise you Virenque. That guy whines even when
    he says "Hello."

  17. On Jul 8, 1:27 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 04:17:39 -0700, "[email hidden]"

    Quoted message said:

    On Jul 8, 12:38 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 01:10:15 -0700, "[email hidden]"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >On Jul 8, 2:47 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>
    >wrote:
    >> On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:20:24 -0700, "[email hidden]"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >> >Fignon criticizing someone's aerodynamics in a TT? That's a good one.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> I thought he had a very good to great TT position himself - from
    >> Guimard's work in wind tunnels. Through the end of the 1980s he rode
    >> the second or third fastest TT every in Tour of France history. Plus
    >> he won the Grand Prix des Nations TT at least once.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >No doubt he was great, but that is the price he pays in my book for
    >losing the TdF with the smallest margin ever due to his less than
    >perfect aerodynamics. That's the way is always seems to go. A career
    >of great accomplishments is near forgotten in the shadow of one
    >mistake.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    So you're buying into that flawed view and perpetuating it...

    Quoted message said:

    The view that he lost due to less than optimal aerodynamics? I do
    believe that.

    The guy had superb aerodynamics but worse than one or two other guys.
    He schooled people in TTs due to fitness, position and motivation. He
    won two Tours of France and one TOur of Italy. And yet it's somehow
    funny that he can criticise another riders position because he was
    beaten in one race!

    Yes. Sad but true.

    Joseph

  18. Quoted message said:

    The sad part is that while it is being shot in HDTV, no one is
    broadcasting it in HDTV...

    Which does exactly what, besides making the image breakups dramatically less
    soft (due to lower compression ratios) when there are the inevitable and
    frequent obstructions between the motorcycle-based cameras and the overhead
    planes & helicopters that relay the signal?

    Oh. Right. Podium girls. What was I thinking???

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

  19. John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
    [Of Laurent Fignon]

    Quoted message said:

    The guy had superb aerodynamics

    Yeah ... the pony tail was very areo.

    Quoted message said:

    but worse than one or two other guys.
    He schooled people in TTs due to fitness, position and motivation. He
    won two Tours of France and one TOur of Italy.

    One of those Tours De France came because of Pascal Simon breaking his
    collarbone in a crash while enjoying a pretty good advantage over LF.

    Quoted message said:

    And yet it's somehow
    funny that he can criticise another riders position because he was
    beaten in one race!

    He apparently is still a spoiled brat.

    Bill

  20. Dans le message de
    news:[email hidden],
    Mike Jacoubowsky <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The sad part is that while it is being shot in HDTV, no one is
    broadcasting it in HDTV...

    Which does exactly what, besides making the image breakups
    dramatically less soft (due to lower compression ratios) when there
    are the inevitable and frequent obstructions between the
    motorcycle-based cameras and the overhead planes & helicopters that
    relay the signal?
    Oh. Right. Podium girls. What was I thinking???

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    Two good things on France2 today -

    Gerald Holcz's microphone went dead, often.
    They kept the podium girls around for an hour during the after-race show.

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