Black Ice

Marc Brett said:

Transformers on poles are often associated with farms, and so the
likelyhood of mud on the roads.

Can't we just look for the fields/mud?!

--
Mike
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"mb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Marc Brett said:

Transformers on poles are often associated with farms, and so the
likelyhood of mud on the roads.

Can't we just look for the fields/mud?!

Nah it's much more satisfying trying to deduce what the road surfaces are
going to be like by inferences obtained from looking everywhere else but the
road.....

vernon said:

"mb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Marc Brett said:

Transformers on poles are often associated with farms, and so the
likelyhood of mud on the roads.

Can't we just look for the fields/mud?!

Nah it's much more satisfying trying to deduce what the road surfaces are
going to be like by inferences obtained from looking everywhere else but the
road.....

If you slowed down a bit, there'd be time to look for these sorts of
clues.

Marc Brett said:

All of the posts I've read on the Rhyl tragedy suggest that eeevil black
ice jumped outta the bushes and bit Harris in the ass, and nothing but a
constantly cautious speed could have prevented the crash.

I don't believe this is entirely true. Icy patches on roads /can/ be
predicted by an observant driver.

they can also be seen, black ice isn't magical it's just very clear ice.
so it can be hard to spot, but not impossible, a lot depends on if you
know what your looking at and if your attaully looking for it in the
first place.

Quoted message said:

Cold air sinks, and so can pool in hollows, where ice may form. Marshy
areas are humid, and so may generate more frost in the area. Sunny
spots can melt ice, shady spots can preserve it. Bridges will ice up
long before the ground. Overhanging trees can inhibit ice formation.
Clear skies on a cold day are likely to form frost. Transformers on
poles are often associated with farms, and so the likelyhood of mud on
the roads. And corners, of course, demand extra attention. Careful
reading of weather reports can alert you to icy conditions, even if the
words are not mentioned in the report itself.

More here:

http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~cliff/Roadway.html

Of course, with GCSE-level physics not even requiring calculations these
days, the chances of even a small fraction of drivers absorbing this
sort of knowledge is sqrt(fa).

roger

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger
Merriman
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Marc Brett said:

All of the posts I've read on the Rhyl tragedy suggest that eeevil black
ice jumped outta the bushes and bit Harris in the ass, and nothing but a
constantly cautious speed could have prevented the crash.

I don't believe this is entirely true. Icy patches on roads /can/ be
predicted by an observant driver.

they can also be seen, black ice isn't magical it's just very clear ice.
so it can be hard to spot, but not impossible, a lot depends on if you
know what your looking at and if your attaully looking for it in the
first place.

It basically looks like the road's wet, but your tyres don't make that
swishing sound and the steering goes light - it's not rocket science to
detect it.

In article said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger
Merriman
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Marc Brett said:

All of the posts I've read on the Rhyl tragedy suggest that eeevil black
ice jumped outta the bushes and bit Harris in the ass, and nothing but a
constantly cautious speed could have prevented the crash.

I don't believe this is entirely true. Icy patches on roads /can/ be
predicted by an observant driver.

they can also be seen, black ice isn't magical it's just very clear ice.
so it can be hard to spot, but not impossible, a lot depends on if you
know what your looking at and if your attaully looking for it in the
first place.

It basically looks like the road's wet, but your tyres don't make that
swishing sound and the steering goes light - it's not rocket science to
detect it.

Yes, but if the ice is on a bend and you weren't going slow enough
_before_ your steering goes light and your tyres aren't making the
swishing sound, it's probably too late to do anything about it.
So either you need "a constantly cautious speed", or you need to
spot or predict it _before_ you are on it.

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger
Merriman
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Marc Brett said:

All of the posts I've read on the Rhyl tragedy suggest that eeevil black
ice jumped outta the bushes and bit Harris in the ass, and nothing but a
constantly cautious speed could have prevented the crash.

I don't believe this is entirely true. Icy patches on roads /can/ be
predicted by an observant driver.

they can also be seen, black ice isn't magical it's just very clear ice.
so it can be hard to spot, but not impossible, a lot depends on if you
know what your looking at and if your attaully looking for it in the
first place.

It basically looks like the road's wet, but your tyres don't make that
swishing sound and the steering goes light - it's not rocket science to
detect it.

quite.

in the ryhl case no one else lost traction so totally, i dought the
traffic was that light that a car didn't pass though before probably not
10 mins ago.

the black ice oh nothhing you can do there isn't really a much of
argument

roger

In article <[email hidden]>, Alan Braggins
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Yes, but if the ice is on a bend and you weren't going slow enough
_before_ your steering goes light and your tyres aren't making the
swishing sound, it's probably too late to do anything about it.
So either you need "a constantly cautious speed", or you need to
spot or predict it _before_ you are on it.

I doubt that was the only patch of black ice on the road that morning -
he'd quite possibly driven over some on a straight bit and not noticed
because he was in too much of a hurry because he was late for work.

(Alan Braggins) said:

Quoted message said:

It basically looks like the road's wet, but your tyres don't make that
swishing sound and the steering goes light - it's not rocket science to
detect it.

Yes, but if the ice is on a bend and you weren't going slow enough
_before_ your steering goes light and your tyres aren't making the
swishing sound, it's probably too late to do anything about it.
So either you need "a constantly cautious speed", or you need to
spot or predict it _before_ you are on it.

How about slowing down before the corners where there might be black
ice? It seemed to work just fine for me in my years in Scandinavia.

It really doesn't add much time to the journey but it does take a bit
of discipline.

...d