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Funny Fingers

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UK and Europe
Published
23 June 2007
Last activity
25 June 2007
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elyob
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  1. I've been training loads for the British Etape and am now finding that I'm
    getting slightly "funny fingers" on one hand. Basically it's just the little
    finger on my left hand, for a number of hours, if not a day, later I cannot
    move my little finger back to its normal position and it curls up if I try
    and move it. I'm guessing that I've been resting on a nerve or something,
    just wondered if anyone had suffered something similar and what to do to
    fix? I do try and change hand positions ...

    And no, I'm not doing shadow puppetry .. 🙂

    http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1295/601259161_ce80c9df62.jpg?v=0

    Thanks

    --
    Tour de France Cyclosportive 2007
    http://www.justgiving.com/tdfkingston

  2. in message <[email hidden]>, elyob

    (') said:

    I've been training loads for the British Etape and am now finding that
    I'm getting slightly "funny fingers" on one hand. Basically it's just the
    little finger on my left hand, for a number of hours, if not a day, later
    I cannot move my little finger back to its normal position and it curls
    up if I try and move it. I'm guessing that I've been resting on a nerve
    or something, just wondered if anyone had suffered something similar and
    what to do to fix? I do try and change hand positions ...

    Palsy. No, I'm serious, but fortunately not a serious palsy. What is
    happening is that a nerve is being adversely affected by vibration. You
    need to change one of

    * gloves
    * bar tape or other bar covering
    * position
    * front forks (carbon ones significantly reduce vibration)

    Your object is either to damp out the vibration, or reduce the weight on
    your hands so that the nerve doesn't get it so much. It's normally the
    nerve that runs through the web of your hand between your thumb and
    forefinger that's the problem, but all nerves are vulnerable to
    vibration - there's even a palsy called 'sports car palsy' because it used
    to affect a significant proportion of drivers of (IIRC) the Triumph TR3,
    who habitually leant their leg against the gearbox when driving.

    I used to suffer from handlebar palsy quite badly, but cork bar tape and
    appropriate gloves have cored it for me. I find that gel doesn't work for
    me, but it does work for other people.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    Tony Blair's epitaph, #1: Tony Blair lies here.
    Tony Blair's epitaph, #2: Trust me.

  3. elyob said:

    I've been training loads for the British Etape and am now finding that I'm
    getting slightly "funny fingers" on one hand. Basically it's just the little
    finger on my left hand, for a number of hours, if not a day, later I cannot
    move my little finger back to its normal position and it curls up if I try
    and move it. I'm guessing that I've been resting on a nerve or something,
    just wondered if anyone had suffered something similar and what to do to
    fix? I do try and change hand positions ...

    Basically, what Simon said. There are some specific things you can
    try. Specialized make a bar tape called Bar Phat that's supposed to
    help with this problem. There are also Marsas pads that go underneath
    ordinary tape, and some Audax riders have said positive things about
    this. Specialized (again) also make gloves with gel pads that are
    meant to relieve pressure on the ulnar nerves. I bought a pair of
    these recently and have found them to be very good.

    Is there numbness or tingling in the affected hand? With the sort of
    nerve damage cyclists commonly get with stepping up the mileage I'd
    expect that. If so this ought gradually to repair itself in a number
    of weeks or months once you remove the cause. On the other hand, as
    you say only one little finger is affected this sounds a little bit
    like trigger finger to me. This is a condition of the tendon rather
    than the nerve. I'm not an ex-medical student though and I think we
    could do with a comment from Helen at this point.

    --
    Dave...

  4. You have a problem with the ulnar nerve. Your picture is remarkably
    similar to those of ulnar nerve palsy in some of my books [1] This runs
    in the heel of the hand close to the bony lump you can feel by the ray
    bone that goes to the little finger (hook of the hamate). The nature of
    ulnar nerve damage is that it is possible to damage the motor branch
    without affecting sensory function. It follows that numbness/pins &
    needles are not always a feature.

    If you can't grip a postcard between your ring and little finger, you
    almost deinitely are in trouble; if you can't bring these together at
    all, you *are* in trouble. The ulnar nerve also supplies some other hand
    muscles, including those to the thumb; can you squeeze a 'cord grip'
    type spring toggle without bending your thumb in the middle?

    IMO the problem is due to compression of the nerve and its bloood
    vessels, not to vibration. You should take _all_ pressure off the heel
    of the hand as frequently as possible when cycling. Padded gloves and
    bars help diffuse the pressure but do not remove it. (I speculate that
    they may cause more trouble in the long term for this reason; you'd take
    your hands off the bars if you had pain, but if you have no pain, you
    might continue until you have truly mashed the nerve.) The same may
    apply to other contact area problems, like saddles/shorts.

    I first mashed my left ulnar nerve when I cycled to the Arctic Circle in
    1988. By the time I realised I had a problem, I was 10 days into a
    three-week trip, cycle-camping solo. There was no pain or numbness. I
    changed my cycling style but still returned home with little motor
    function. My subsequent Audax exploits caused the problem to recur; I
    have permanent damage...

    I suspect this problem affects the left hand of right-handed people more
    because it has developed quite severely before being noticed and the
    right hand gets taken off the bars more for gears and braking.

    [1] Ulnar nerve palsy is a medical exam 'classic'. If you have any
    friends taking exams, show them your hand as a revision challenge.
    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
    Edgware.

  5. Helen Deborah Vecht said:

    You have a problem with the ulnar nerve. Your picture is remarkably
    similar to those of ulnar nerve palsy in some of my books [1] This
    runs in the heel of the hand close to the bony lump you can feel by
    the ray bone that goes to the little finger (hook of the hamate). The
    nature of ulnar nerve damage is that it is possible to damage the
    motor branch without affecting sensory function. It follows that
    numbness/pins & needles are not always a feature.

    This is not an attempt to frighten you (see below*) but the last time I
    had a "trapped ulnar nerve" it turned out to be a brain tumour. If it
    gets much worse, or if you start getting uncommanded hand twitches, then
    you really do need some checking over.

    *however, given that there is a more obvious cause in your case (lots of
    riding) I am sure that it will go away if you get the bar tape, riding
    position right.

    Good luck with the etape.

    Peter

    --
    www.amey.org.uk

  6. Helen Deborah Vecht said:


    IMO the problem is due to compression of the nerve and its bloood
    vessels, not to vibration. You should take _all_ pressure off the heel
    of the hand as frequently as possible when cycling. Padded gloves and
    bars help diffuse the pressure but do not remove it. (I speculate that
    they may cause more trouble in the long term for this reason; you'd take
    your hands off the bars if you had pain, but if you have no pain, you
    might continue until you have truly mashed the nerve.) The same may
    apply to other contact area problems, like saddles/shorts.

    I think bars do make a genuine difference. My wrist position for drop
    bars is totally different than it is for flat bars. Wrist straight, arms
    bent very little pressure/compression. My symptoms are different to
    yours in that I experience numbness not motor problems but for me the
    symptoms really do disappear totally with drop bars and this is based on
    years of experience.

    Unfortunately I've never managed to totally solve the saddle/short problem.

    Quoted message said:

    I first mashed my left ulnar nerve when I cycled to the Arctic Circle in
    1988. By the time I realised I had a problem, I was 10 days into a
    three-week trip, cycle-camping solo. There was no pain or numbness. I
    changed my cycling style but still returned home with little motor
    function. My subsequent Audax exploits caused the problem to recur; I
    have permanent damage...

    I suspect this problem affects the left hand of right-handed people more
    because it has developed quite severely before being noticed and the
    right hand gets taken off the bars more for gears and braking.

    [1] Ulnar nerve palsy is a medical exam 'classic'. If you have any
    friends taking exams, show them your hand as a revision challenge.

    Given that it is an exam classic it is a shame doctors seem unable to
    remember it in the surgery. :o(

  7. Nick <[email hidden]>typed

    Quoted message said:

    Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    IMO the problem is due to compression of the nerve and its bloood
    vessels, not to vibration. You should take _all_ pressure off the heel
    of the hand as frequently as possible when cycling. Padded gloves and
    bars help diffuse the pressure but do not remove it. (I speculate that
    they may cause more trouble in the long term for this reason; you'd take
    your hands off the bars if you had pain, but if you have no pain, you
    might continue until you have truly mashed the nerve.) The same may
    apply to other contact area problems, like saddles/shorts.

    Quoted message said:

    I think bars do make a genuine difference. My wrist position for drop
    bars is totally different than it is for flat bars. Wrist straight, arms
    bent very little pressure/compression. My symptoms are different to
    yours in that I experience numbness not motor problems but for me the
    symptoms really do disappear totally with drop bars and this is based on
    years of experience.

    In 1988, I was riding a flat-barred mountain bike. I wore gloves but
    hadn't yet acquired the Speco gel gloves I used for Audax rides.

    I had well-padded drops for Audax.

    Quoted message said:

    Unfortunately I've never managed to totally solve the saddle/short problem.

    For me the key was getting my bum off the seat and allowing as much air
    as possible to cool my shorts. I reserved padding for trips >100 miles.
    ('Airing my grievances' took on a new meaning...)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I first mashed my left ulnar nerve when I cycled to the Arctic Circle in
    1988. By the time I realised I had a problem, I was 10 days into a
    three-week trip, cycle-camping solo. There was no pain or numbness. I
    changed my cycling style but still returned home with little motor
    function. My subsequent Audax exploits caused the problem to recur; I
    have permanent damage...

    [1] Ulnar nerve palsy is a medical exam 'classic'. If you have any
    friends taking exams, show them your hand as a revision challenge.

    Quoted message said:

    Given that it is an exam classic it is a shame doctors seem unable to
    remember it in the surgery. :o(

    It is a favourite for MRCP, a test rarely taken by GPs...

    The ulnar nerve features in a large number of glove adverts on the
    wiggle website ;-)

    Quick guide to nerves in the hand:

    1) Radial nerve: winds round the back of the radius as it broadens just
    above the wrist. Supplies sensation only to a small triangular patch at
    the back of the base of the thumb. Unlikely to be troublesome in
    cyclists who neither wear HYOOGE watches or get into trouble with the
    Polis [1]

    2) Median nerve arrives in the hand in a tight fibrous tunnel, the
    carpal tunnel, in the middle of the wrist (under the base of the 'Life
    Line'😉. Supplies sensation to most of the fingers, except usually half
    the ring finger and little finger. Supplies muscle at base of thumb. [2]

    3) Ulnar nerve as discussed above. Has separate motor and sensory
    branches. Supplies sensation to the little finger and usually half the
    ring finger. Motor branch supplies almost ALL small muscles of the hand.
    These are the ones that allow you to spread straight fingers apart and
    bring them together (interossei). They also allow you to fully
    straighten the fingers (lumbricals).[3]

    [1] Resisting tight handcuffs classically causes numbness discovered
    after a weekend's revelling; challenging sufferers about Polis
    encounters can be 'interesting'...

    [2] Carpal tunnel syndrome is caused by compression of the median nerve,
    usually in condition where a degree of swelling increases tension in a
    tight place. Pregnancy, rheumatoid arthritis etc can be examples. A
    minor operation to decompress the tunnel may be recommended.

    [3] The curved appearance of the OP's little finger is termed 'ulnar clawing'.

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
    Edgware.

  8. in message <[email hidden]>, Helen Deborah Vecht

    (') said:

    [1] Resisting tight handcuffs classically causes numbness discovered
    after a weekend's revelling; challenging sufferers about Polis
    encounters can be 'interesting'...

    It is, of course, not /only/ the Police who may make use of handcuffs in
    the course of a weekend's revelling...

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; All in all you're just another nick in the ball
    -- Think Droid

  9. Helen Deborah Vecht said:

    Nick <[email hidden]>typed

    Quoted message said:

    Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    IMO the problem is due to compression of the nerve and its bloood
    vessels, not to vibration. You should take _all_ pressure off the heel
    of the hand as frequently as possible when cycling. Padded gloves and
    bars help diffuse the pressure but do not remove it. (I speculate that
    they may cause more trouble in the long term for this reason; you'd take
    your hands off the bars if you had pain, but if you have no pain, you
    might continue until you have truly mashed the nerve.) The same may
    apply to other contact area problems, like saddles/shorts.

    Quoted message said:

    I think bars do make a genuine difference. My wrist position for drop
    bars is totally different than it is for flat bars. Wrist straight, arms
    bent very little pressure/compression. My symptoms are different to
    yours in that I experience numbness not motor problems but for me the
    symptoms really do disappear totally with drop bars and this is based on
    years of experience.

    In 1988, I was riding a flat-barred mountain bike. I wore gloves but
    hadn't yet acquired the Speco gel gloves I used for Audax rides.

    Strangely gloves appear to make very little difference to me.

    Quoted message said:

    I had well-padded drops for Audax.

    Quoted message said:

    Unfortunately I've never managed to totally solve the saddle/short problem.

    For me the key was getting my bum off the seat and allowing as much air
    as possible to cool my shorts. I reserved padding for trips >100 miles.
    ('Airing my grievances' took on a new meaning...)

    For me it is the nappy like padding that they put in cycling shorts that
    causes problems.

    Quoted message said:


    [3] The curved appearance of the OP's little finger is termed 'ulnar clawing'.

    Actually the the OP's little finger looks positively normal and straight
    compared to mine. My pinkies really are bent but that is the bones. Top
    joints about 20% angle off straight, curving inwards in the plane of the
    hand). It is hereditary, not a problem but it always gives the doctor a
    shock ;o)

  10. Nick <[email hidden]>typed

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    In 1988, I was riding a flat-barred mountain bike. I wore gloves but
    hadn't yet acquired the Spenco gel gloves I used for Audax rides.

    Quoted message said:

    Strangely gloves appear to make very little difference to me.

    Is that strange, given that they don't remove pressure, just spread it
    out? Poorly designed gloves can quite easily concentrate pressure in
    *just* the areas you want to protect.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I had well-padded drops for Audax.

    Quoted message said:

    Unfortunately I've never managed to totally solve the saddle/short
    problem.

    For me the key was getting my bum off the seat and allowing as much air
    as possible to cool my shorts. I reserved padding for trips >100 miles.
    ('Airing my grievances' took on a new meaning...)

    Quoted message said:

    For me it is the nappy like padding that they put in cycling shorts that
    causes problems.

    It quite possibly does this to others too...

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
    Edgware.

  11. Quoting Simon Brooke <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    (') said:

    [1] Resisting tight handcuffs classically causes numbness discovered
    after a weekend's revelling; challenging sufferers about Polis
    encounters can be 'interesting'...


    It is, of course, not /only/ the Police who may make use of handcuffs in
    the course of a weekend's revelling...

    Handcuffs should be (and generally are) avoided for recreational purposes
    precisely because of the potential for nerve damage.
    --
    David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!
    Today is Olethros, Presuary - a weekend.

  12. Thanks to all for the feedback, useful to know what is going on. It's three
    days since I took that photo and my pinky is back to it's normal position. I
    think I will rest the "real" cycling this week and may go to the gym and
    swimming pool instead in prep for the Etape. I don't want to go into it with
    a damaged nerve and make it worse.

    Thanks again

  13. "elyob" <[email hidden]>typed

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks to all for the feedback, useful to know what is going on. It's three
    days since I took that photo and my pinky is back to it's normal
    position. I
    think I will rest the "real" cycling this week and may go to the gym and
    swimming pool instead in prep for the Etape. I don't want to go into
    it with
    a damaged nerve and make it worse.

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks again

    Good thinking!

    Don't be surprised if your stroke is impaired because you can't keep
    your fingers together as strongly as before. Your pinky may still wobble
    in the water.

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
    Edgware.

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